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Post by Pharozonk on Jan 7, 2016 11:24:27 GMT -5
I disagree that physical media sucks. There's no experience in owning digital media. You can't hold it or feel it. There's no visual or olfactory experience either. I can have Abbey Road as an MP3 file on my laptop, but I can't hold the record or look at the iconic album artwork like I could with a vinyl record or CD. It's just feels so empty and I say that as someone who listens to music almost exclusively digitally. Very silly. You can't hold a movie in a movie theater either- and I don't need to. The only advantage physical media used to have was the ability to utilize it any time you wanted it. But you can do that now with digital as well. Your missing out on great movie theater experiences since there is nothing to grab- maybe that's why people bring their dates/partners with them to snuggle. I think this is a case of different strokes for different folks, Ish. I would equate the movie theater experience to being more akin to driving to rent a movie from a video store than queuing up a movie on Netflix. Having to drive to the theater and buy a ticket is still a physical experience that I'm having and putting in the time and effort to do that leads to a more fulfilling experience than simply pressing a button on my remote or laptop. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 7, 2016 13:15:23 GMT -5
Music and movies are different beasts as it is unlikely you'll watch your favorite movies as many times as ou'll listen to your favorite tunes, but yeah : physical media are totems, reminders of their presence in your own pantheon, visual interfaces in your living environement that they are here available for your enjoyement, while hard-drive files have to be fetched up, they don't contribute to your environement. As a creative person, those totems are very important. And I find it quite ironic to find on a comicbook forum people complaining about how physical media sucks. Have all of you gone digital this past holiday? Movies are nothing more than electronic photons transmitted to a viewing screen. How those photons got to the screen, I don't care. I watch the screen the same way one might have done so during the silent movie days. A cardboard box or plastic shell has no meaning to me. Now reading is different because I do prefer the printed page rather than a electronic screen. Those are different delivery systems and one can distinguish between them. But a movie? Nope |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jan 7, 2016 13:20:45 GMT -5
Music and movies are different beasts as it is unlikely you'll watch your favorite movies as many times as ou'll listen to your favorite tunes, but yeah : physical media are totems, reminders of their presence in your own pantheon, visual interfaces in your living environement that they are here available for your enjoyement, while hard-drive files have to be fetched up, they don't contribute to your environement. As a creative person, those totems are very important. And I find it quite ironic to find on a comicbook forum people complaining about how physical media sucks. Have all of you gone digital this past holiday? Movies are nothing more than electronic photons transmitted to a viewing screen. How those photons got to the screen, I don't care. I watch the screen the same way one might have done so during the silent movie days. A cardboard box or plastic shell has no meaning to me. Now reading is different because I do prefer the printed page rather than a electronic screen. Those are different delivery systems and one can distinguish between them. But a movie? Nope Eh... I thought the topic was about the VHS tape, the object. I sure cannot have nostalgia of photons, but I sure can of an object and its specific culture, artwork and rituals. You're talking about watching movies, I'm here talking about the object and all the feelings and memories it triggers. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 7, 2016 13:27:59 GMT -5
Movies are nothing more than electronic photons transmitted to a viewing screen. How those photons got to the screen, I don't care. I watch the screen the same way one might have done so during the silent movie days. A cardboard box or plastic shell has no meaning to me. Now reading is different because I do prefer the printed page rather than a electronic screen. Those are different delivery systems and one can distinguish between them. But a movie? Nope Eh... I thought the topic was about the VHS tape, the object. I sure cannot have nostalgia of photons, but I sure can of an object and its specific culture, artwork and rituals. You're talking about watching movies, I'm here talking about the object and all the feelings and memories it triggers. I guess its the movie itself that harkens a nostalgic reaction from me. Just like when a song is played, I can equate it with a moment in time that I first encountered it. A VHS plastic shell-I was happy to throw my collection away when I replaced it on the DVD format. And if they ever come up with a new technology to implant the entire film library in my brain and I can close my eyes and dredge them up with accompanying virtual reality- well I'll be happy to junk the DVDs or digital files too |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jan 7, 2016 13:42:49 GMT -5
Eh... I thought the topic was about the VHS tape, the object. I sure cannot have nostalgia of photons, but I sure can of an object and its specific culture, artwork and rituals. You're talking about watching movies, I'm here talking about the object and all the feelings and memories it triggers. I guess its the movie itself that harkens a nostalgic reaction from me. Just like when a song is played, I can equate it with a moment in time that I first encountered it. A VHS plastic shell-I was happy to throw my collection away when I replaced it on the DVD format. And if they ever come up with a new technology to implant the entire film library in my brain and I can close my eyes and dredge them up with accompanying virtual reality- well I'll be happy to junk the DVDs or digital files too why do those reactions need to be exclusive?! I have nostalgia with movies as I have with the VHS format for certain types of works as I have with physical medias such as vinyls and comic books. Your song analogy is sound, but I can add that whenever I see a vinyl I purchased, I get the same feeling, sometimes even stronger then from the sole song as there's additional context. And when you state "Now reading is different because I do prefer the printed page rather than a electronic screen. Those are different delivery systems and one can distinguish between them. But a movie? Nope " How is that different? On the contrary, there are way more delivery options with movies than with comics : road shows, I pads, plasma/HD/cathodic TVs, VR googles, Digital projection/analog theatres, IMAX, theatres that allow 70mm projections in its intended format, airplane small screens, etc. And all preferance are relative to one's subjective taste of the moment. I for one appreciate for certain types of movies grainy VHS quality, and furthermore, as stated before, VHS have specific content, due ti its age specific format condition : dubbing of 80ies B/Z action flicks used to have shady/cheesy dubbing that doesn't exist anymore in this more policed age. And I miss that, the charm of current B/Z movies has more or less vanished |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 7, 2016 19:05:46 GMT -5
Don't look at me. I suggested Hot Jacuzzi but some guy named Tom Waits disagreed  |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 7, 2016 20:21:52 GMT -5
As someone who's worked for videoclubs, I can tell you that the industry hated DVDs as they tend to get damaged much easier than those bulky VHS, a format that is still in use for preserving certain types of data as it can be extremely precise in the details it captures. But they sure take more room and the magnetic principle can indeed detriate under certain conditions. But a good quality virgin VHSshould still be great even 30 years after production, while many CDs only have a 15-20 years span of life. But again, I'm not saying I'd trust VHS over DVDs/etc nowadays, just that that technology is far more reliable than we've been told with the dawn of digital formats  VHS contains more precise information than DVD format?? This is very new to me. It's my understanding that any magnetic tape format (VHS, Cassette, etc) is generally low grade unless it utilizes metal, and I've never heard of a VHS tape that utilized metal. I do, however, have some super high quality metal cassette tapes that play like a dream. |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jan 7, 2016 20:36:53 GMT -5
As someone who's worked for videoclubs, I can tell you that the industry hated DVDs as they tend to get damaged much easier than those bulky VHS, a format that is still in use for preserving certain types of data as it can be extremely precise in the details it captures. But they sure take more room and the magnetic principle can indeed detriate under certain conditions. But a good quality virgin VHSshould still be great even 30 years after production, while many CDs only have a 15-20 years span of life. But again, I'm not saying I'd trust VHS over DVDs/etc nowadays, just that that technology is far more reliable than we've been told with the dawn of digital formats VHS contains more precise information than DVD format?? This is very new to me. It's my understanding that any magnetic tape format (VHS, Cassette, etc) is generally low grade unless it utilizes metal, and I've never heard of a VHS tape that utilized metal. I do, however, have some super high quality metal cassette tapes that play like a dream. I don't believe I anywhere said VHS contains more info than DVD... But BASF indeed produced metal/chrome VHS tapes, which I still use for this specific process : When recording music, pre-full-digital era, the ultimate quality recording device was the ADAT recorder that used VHS tapes. There even were some full analog recorders that used VHS magnetic tapes. When I do the mastering of my tracks to be released, there's a 3 way process : First the global EQ eihter on the mixer or the computer, than a pre master through the tape recorder (directly coupled to a digital recording device) to get the natural distortion and tape hiss which makes the sound warmer, then the proper mastering studio session with the digital recording. For the second stage, I've tried to use those VHS tape recorders vs regular tape recorders, and the sound is much different. But it's sound, so it's really a matter of personnal taste there. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 7, 2016 20:46:33 GMT -5
As someone who's worked for videoclubs, I can tell you that the industry hated DVDs as they tend to get damaged much easier than those bulky VHS, a format that is still in use for preserving certain types of data as it can be extremely precise in the details it captures. But they sure take more room and the magnetic principle can indeed detriate under certain conditions. But a good quality virgin VHSshould still be great even 30 years after production, while many CDs only have a 15-20 years span of life. But again, I'm not saying I'd trust VHS over DVDs/etc nowadays, just that that technology is far more reliable than we've been told with the dawn of digital formats I don't believe I anywhere said VHS contains more info than DVD... Your first comment suggested that the industry still utilizes VHS for preserving certain types of data because it is more precise in the detail it captures. I was curious to hear more about this, as it runs contrary to my preconceptions about the format. |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jan 7, 2016 20:53:28 GMT -5
Ah ok, well, yes, I should have specified I talked about sound when I mentioned precision. And the industry I was talking about was the video rental one : my boss and his collegues hated how fragile DVD's are compared to VHS. Customers damage DVDs so easily (or claim it was damaged and skiped so they don't have to pay), which was far more difficult with VHSs.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 8, 2016 17:44:47 GMT -5
I'm still confused by the claims I've seen made in this thread that DVDs are somehow more fragile than VHS tapes. Granted, where my four year old is concerned, this is accurate. But, so long as you know not to touch the underside of a DVD and put it back in its case when not using it, I find them much easier to care for.
Number of VHS tapes that broke for me within 5 years of purchase (with proper care): 2
Number of DVDs that broke for me within 5 years of purchase (with proper care): 0
Number of VHS tapes that were damaged/defective when first taken out of the box: 0
Number of DVDs that were damaged/defective when first taken out of the box: 0
Percentage of VHS tapes that wore out/lost quality within 5 years of purchase (even with proper care): Approximately 40%
Percentage of DVDs that wore out/lost quality within 5 years of purchase (even with proper care): less than 1%
Number of VHS players that broke for me within 5 years of purchase (with proper care): 2
Number of DVD players that broke for me within 5 years of purchase (with proper care): 1
In regard to the nostalgia factor, while I do miss the original box art and commercials, this is nostalgia for the content, not the media format. There's no reason companies can't provide the original box art and retro commercials on the DVDs if there is enough consumer demand for them.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jan 8, 2016 18:53:01 GMT -5
I'm still confused by the claims I've seen made in this thread that DVDs are somehow more fragile than VHS tapes. Granted, where my four year old is concerned, this is accurate. But, so long as you know not to touch the underside of a DVD and put it back in its case when not using it, I find them much easier to care for. Number of VHS tapes that broke for me within 5 years of purchase (with proper care): 2 Number of DVDs that broke for me within 5 years of purchase (with proper care): 0 Number of VHS tapes that were damaged/defective when first taken out of the box: 0 Number of DVDs that were damaged/defective when first taken out of the box: 0 Percentage of VHS tapes that wore out/lost quality within 5 years of purchase (even with proper care): Approximately 40% Percentage of DVDs that wore out/lost quality within 5 years of purchase (even with proper care): less than 1% Number of VHS players that broke for me within 5 years of purchase (with proper care): 2 Number of DVD players that broke for me within 5 years of purchase (with proper care): 1 In regard to the nostalgia factor, while I do miss the original box art and commercials, this is nostalgia for the content, not the media format. There's no reason companies can't provide the original box art and retro commercials on the DVDs if there is enough consumer demand for them. Well, if you expect video rental customers to take as great care of the products they rent as you personnaly do, I wish you were my sole client hten, and would advise you against any inclination to go into the business It just was more difficult for customers to damage a VHS in a way that rendered it unplayable than with DVDs. It's just common sense, as the tiniest unsignificant hariline scratch on a DVD could have vastly and randomly dramatc different effect on its playing capacity. About nostalgia of the media, no current companies could provide the flavor of yesterdays for their new products as those sketchy designs and features were achieved not to fill a crave for nostalgia but because a naive and romantic belief in their time-specific sense of design. If something is retro it is not genuine it's just retro. I'm not after that, I just honnestly enjoy the naive supposedly sense of design from back then and get inspired by it. Not saying it's better than what they have today, just that I enjoy its authentic naivité when retro would somewhat be cynical. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 8, 2016 19:21:15 GMT -5
The New York City Public Library system probably loans out a million DVD discs a year. If it was a huge problem concerning damages to their inventory, they would discontinue the service since its done on a not-for-profit basis. But they have not. Ipso facto, not a big deal
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Jan 8, 2016 19:53:06 GMT -5
And also not many alternatives nowadays But sociolagicaly, I guess, it's easier to behave like pigs when you don't have to face the clerk when you return the disc (which is mostly the case with most recent forms of video rentals, at least in Europe). And Maybe people have more respect for medias in a library, as it is more a service than a commercial transaction. Oh man, I remember my boss getting those huge pamphlets wth sociological studies, it was hilarious. In Europe in the 90ies and 00ies, for the vast majority of the video clubs (can you say so in english or is it video rentals"? I never know), Porn amounted of between 5 and 10 % of hte stock, and yet represented betseen 25 and 40% of the business! At first I thought that porn customers were more "passionate", but after working there for a while, to my great surprise, you can't escape the fact that all social categories rent those every now and then. Which was quite funny when you spent an afterneeon talking classics with a new customer, only to see him return the next day with a smut flick he has to physically hand over to you since he's a new customer and and didn't manage to return the film by himself, the murphy's law of video rental! |
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