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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2016 9:57:34 GMT -5
The "wave the magic wand" method seems to be the most popular way of changing continuity. When Franklin Richards brought everyone back from Heroes Reborn in their previous incarnations , no one complained. No one complained because Heroes Reborn was terrible.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2016 10:01:27 GMT -5
The "wave the magic wand" method seems to be the most popular way of changing continuity. When Franklin Richards brought everyone back from Heroes Reborn in their previous incarnations , no one complained. No one complained because Heroes Reborn was terrible. It was. But they also didn't complain because they just wanted everything back the way it was, no matter how silly the method. The same happened to the Barry Allen Flash and the Hal Green Lantern.
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Post by Pharozonk on Jan 25, 2016 10:11:18 GMT -5
Green Lantern (Hal) came back and the reset button was hit. They just blamed a yellow fear monster. The yellow fear monster was more believable than him just murdering the other Green Lanterns because of he had a bad day.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2016 10:16:01 GMT -5
Green Lantern (Hal) came back and the reset button was hit. They just blamed a yellow fear monster. The yellow fear monster was more believable than him just murdering the other Green Lanterns because of he had a bad day. Once DC committed to writing that story, they should have stuck with it. They were moving on from Hal to another version Of GL on earth. It's kind of a cheat when they want a Do over.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 25, 2016 10:58:47 GMT -5
Was this ever ret-conned or Mopee-ed?
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Post by Pharozonk on Jan 25, 2016 11:03:11 GMT -5
The yellow fear monster was more believable than him just murdering the other Green Lanterns because of he had a bad day. Once DC committed to writing that story, they should have stuck with it. They were moving on from Hal to another version Of GL on earth. It's kind of a cheat when they want a Do over. I don't have a problem with transitioning from Hal to Kyle. It's just that story is poorly written and illogical from a character and continuity standpoint. They should have just gone with Gerard Jones' original idea for the story.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2016 11:15:29 GMT -5
Once DC committed to writing that story, they should have stuck with it. They were moving on from Hal to another version Of GL on earth. It's kind of a cheat when they want a Do over. I don't have a problem with transitioning from Hal to Kyle. It's just that story is poorly written and illogical from a character and continuity standpoint. They should have just gone with Gerard Jones' original idea for the story. It was daring to make him lose his mind, but they should have stuck with it. When it comes to comic books, the writers don't care how implausible the story is because they have no respect for the readers. And we prove them right by continuing to buy badly written stories.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 25, 2016 14:28:57 GMT -5
Green Lantern (Hal) came back and the reset button was hit. They just blamed a yellow fear monster. The yellow fear monster was more believable than him just murdering the other Green Lanterns because of he had a bad day. Neither of them made any sense, but they both ended up creating greater exposure and sales for the character. And marketing will always, always, always trump a good story in mainstream comics. In 80 years there has never been an exception. (And if the good story does win out, the editor is not doing their job.) And it ain't like the Denny 'O Neil version of Hal wasn't a completely different character in every aspect in the Denny 'O Neil run than the John Broome version. Consistent long-term characterization has verrrrrry rarely been a feature of superhero comics.*) * Except the post-Silver-Age Jay Garrick. Is everbody happy now?
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 25, 2016 14:54:32 GMT -5
Whenever questions of new versions, ret-cons, reboots, et al. come up, you realize just how simple and easy to understand DC's multiple Earths concept was. You like the Golden Age heroes? They're on Earth 2. You like the Silver Age? Try Earth 1. You want evil versions of your favorites? Welcome to Earth 3. And so on.
Fewer continuity problems, the possibilities of #1 issues every few years, crossovers still can happen, characters can change and age...
Now, I haven't bought a new DC or Marvel comic for a long time, but watching from afar, each universe seems like one big sloppy mess that even experienced comics fans find difficult to sort out. I had no trouble with multiple Earths and parallel universes when I first saw the JSA in JLA 29 when I was 10 years old. None. Nada. Now I look at what's happened and say WTF?
If DC had been smart, they could have simply rebooted without the burdens and problems caused by Infinite Earths by starting a new line within a line of "Earth-Whatever" comics (John Byrne's Superman, a new JLA wiht Black Canary in the original line-up, whatever) and published Earth-1 and Earth-2 lines as popularity dictated. Hell, they have about forty different versions of Batman out now; how could it have been less confusing than that?
Back in the mid-60s, now that I think of it, this may have been what DC was thinking of when they kept trying out Golden Age characters; had they been popular enough, obviously DC would have run a JSA comic or a Golden Age Flash comic, or whatever, just as they did with the Spectre. Those stories would have simply taken place on Earth-2. And all the DC Comics fans would have been able to follow them nicely, thanks.
What really precipitated the COIE was that the industry had not suffered the kind of interruption that divided the Golden and Silver Ages, and the Silver Age had never officially ended, so now about 30 years' worth of continuity was beginning to stack up, and to make matters worse, the fans never seemed to move on as they had in years past. The Golden Age was, give or take, about 10 years long, continuity meant virtually nothing, and fans recycled every few years.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 25, 2016 15:09:24 GMT -5
Conan: year one, in Conan the barbarian #232-239.
Someone had the idea of restarting the series because young readers could identify better with a teenage Conan than with an adult one.
Long time readers were justified to feel cheated, since they wouldn't get to know the answer to that most important of questions in any continued series: what happens next?
Meanwhile, new readers (were there any?) were justified in giving up the mag quickly because it offered lackluster artwork by Ron Lim and scripts by Michael Higgins that flew in the face of most of what we knew about the character. See Conan lose his parents as a kid! (because that's what happens in the movies so it must be true, SSoC #119 notwithstanding). See Venarium, that frontier fort imprudently built by Aquilonians in Cimmeria, be replaced by a Jack Kirby-style city of tall marble spires! See one of the most sacred events in the saga, the sack of that fortress by the wild Cimmerians, be retconned into a magical explosion with Conan's folks being demoted to a mere side annoyance! See the early years of CtB be ignored completely!
When Roy Thomas came back to the mag (under the pseudonym Justin Arthur, in CtB #240), it was thankfully revealed that the previous months had been a bedtime story that King Conan was making up to put his son to sleep. And in a very sporting gesture, Roy didn't make it a hard retcon: he just had Conan's wife vaguely mention that "this isn't quite how you told me of those events", leaving the reader to decide what to leave out and what to keep (which in my case was "nothing").
Years later, a new reboot titled Conan the adventurer would adopt the same strategy of returning to a young Conan (groan) but at least its stories would fit with the early CtB issues.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 25, 2016 15:30:32 GMT -5
Conan: year one, in Conan the barbarian #232-239. Someone had the idea of restarting the series because young readers could identify better with a teenage Conan than with an adult one. Long time readers were justified to feel cheated, since they wouldn't get to know the answer to that most important of questions in any continued series: what happens next?Meanwhile, new readers (were there any?) were justified in giving up the mag quickly because it offered lackluster artwork by Ron Lim and scripts by Michael Higgins that flew in the face of most of what we knew about the character. See Conan lose his parents as a kid! (because that's what happens in the movies so it must be true, SSoC #119 notwithstanding). See Venarium, that frontier fort imprudently built by Aquilonians in Cimmeria, be replaced by a Jack Kirby-style city of tall marble spires! See one of the most sacred events in the saga, the sack of that fortress by the wild Cimmerians, be retconned into a magical explosion with Conan's folks being demoted to a mere side annoyance! See the early years of CtB be ignored completely! When Roy Thomas came back to the mag (under the pseudonym Justin Arthur, in CtB #240), it was thankfully revealed that the previous months had been a bedtime story that King Conan was making up to put his son to sleep. And in a very sporting gesture, Roy didn't make it a hard retcon: he just had Conan's wife vaguely mention that "this isn't quite how you told me of those events", leaving the reader to decide what to leave out and what to keep (which in my case was "nothing"). Years later, a new reboot titled Conan the adventurer would adopt the same strategy of returning to a young Conan (groan) but at least its stories would fit with the early CtB issues. My god, what a horror. At least they didn't give him a pet dog to get in adventures with.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2016 17:28:42 GMT -5
Peter Parker making a deal with the devil so that he was never married to Mary Jane. Wait...what? It still wasn't retconned? That's right...I'm still waiting on that. Well, it was complicated, but I think that has sort-of been, if not retconned exactly, sort-of rewritten/expanded. The twist is that some element of time was changed so that the marriage didn't happen, which elimated the timeline leading to the deal, so it had never happened.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2016 17:43:58 GMT -5
My god, what a horror. At least they didn't give him a pet dog to get in adventures with. Did you not read those issues of Conan and Canine? You missed a classic series, full of great stories like The Scarlet Kennel, The Frost Giant's Dobermann, The Paw of Nergal, and The Slobbering Shadow?
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Post by zaku on Jan 25, 2016 18:33:45 GMT -5
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jan 25, 2016 19:09:00 GMT -5
Was this ever ret-conned or Mopee-ed? Mo-peed AKA ignored. But after the Crisis they used the name Black Zero for an unrelated organization or something like that
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