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Post by junkmonkey on Mar 8, 2021 14:36:40 GMT -5
Everyone is up in arms about whether or not to cancel Dr. Seuss for outdated and racist content when it's just as easy to say they should be cancelled because they are terrible. Have you tried reading Green Eggs and Ham to a kid recently? I'd rather help them math homework. I don't think people are reacting to some of Dr. Seuss's low-selling books being cancelled so much as to the self-serving virtue-signalling of the publishers. The latter's self-censorship, well intentioned as it might be, also reinforces the concept that people may be hurt by being exposed to a caricature in a children's book from sixty years ago, a concept that many people find patronizing. Warning: this episode of Star Trek includes scenes in which a character is being made fun of because he has green blood. Parental discretion is advised. That argument might have a little more validity if there were Kilingons here and now amongst us. There aren't. We've all got red blood but different coloured wrapping. Oh wait! Unless this cancel culture stuff is all a ploy by someone leading up to the Shapeshifting Lizard Bitches (who really rule the planet) accidentally outing themselves by complaining about Yertle the Turtle being a gross stereotype...
I'm going off to write that. There's a story in there somewhere.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 8, 2021 14:41:35 GMT -5
It's probably just pure, self-interested capitalism. Too high a risk for too little return to keep publishing books with offensive portrayals that no one is buying anyway. From their standpoint, it seems like a no brainer. Of course it is. They're making a calculated economic decision. They decided there are six books that make the brand look bad. Six books that are poor sellers. In order to protect the brand they made the calculated economic to allow those books to go out of print rather than risk damage to the brand. One of the things that people seem to be incapable of understanding is that the vast majority of books never get a second printing, much less multiple printings or staying in print for decades on end. I also find it hilarious that all the "free market" lovers are now having conniptions that the market has acted through copyright holders.
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Post by junkmonkey on Mar 8, 2021 14:41:42 GMT -5
Everyone is up in arms about whether or not to cancel Dr. Seuss for outdated and racist content when it's just as easy to say they should be cancelled because they are terrible. Have you tried reading Green Eggs and Ham to a kid recently? I stopped when I realised I wasn't reading it out loud to them. I was reciting it. I could have been holding the book upside down for all that I was looking at the words. Same for The Sleep Book. I could do that one on autopilot too.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 8, 2021 14:50:49 GMT -5
By the way, Mulberry Street enters the Public Domain in 2033 barring another copyright extension. So people can go back to actively ignoring and not reading it.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Mar 8, 2021 14:53:08 GMT -5
(...) It's more than possible that what you call "virtue-signaling" is in fact simply choosing not to continue to be assholes. (...) Ahh yup!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 8, 2021 15:32:02 GMT -5
I don't think people are reacting to some of Dr. Seuss's low-selling books being cancelled so much as to the self-serving virtue-signalling of the publishers. The latter's self-censorship, well intentioned as it might be, also reinforces the concept that people may be hurt by being exposed to a caricature in a children's book from sixty years ago, a concept that many people find patronizing.Warning: this episode of Star Trek includes scenes in which a character is being made fun of because he has green blood. Parental discretion is advised. Are we now taking polls about what feelings people are allowed to have? Who gives a hairy rat's ass what people may find patronizing? I'm not an Asian-American. I haven't ever had to look at caricatures of bright yellow people in Coolie hats and have to explain to my children why people who look like them were objects of ridicule, so ultimately it's not my business to decide if they should be offended. It's more than possible that what you call "virtue-signaling" is in fact simply choosing not to continue to be assholes. I guess I'll worry about people with green blood when they actually exist. Until then it remains a sad strawman. Actually, virtue signalling manifests itself when someone does something for the sole purpose of being admired for their moral rectitude. It is a thing (enough so that it actually deserved its own phrase). It's not a recent invention, mind you, since even the Bible warns us about people who are very vocal about their piety. Refraining from acting like an a###le, as you put it, obviously does not instantly equate virtue signalling. Refraining from acting like an a###le is being a decent citizen. Is stopping from publishing certain books being a decent citizen? It depends on the book, it depends on the reason, and it depends on how it is done. If the publishers of Dr. Seuss had decided to stop publishing those books (for whatever reason, including the fact that a character wears a coolie hat) and not advertised the fact, they wouldn't have been bragging about how virtuous they were. They would just have taken a decision based on whatever reason motivated them, and nobody would have reacted either way. (I don't think they'd have stopped acting like a###les either, because they hadn't been doing so in the first place, as books with such innocuous caricatures can at worst qualify as being "dated". Nobody was saying "What a bunch of a###les!" before they stopped publishing them.) By making their decision public, the publishers hoped to garner publicity. Now what kind of publicity does one gain by saying "I'm no longer selling this or that"? The kind that comes from stopping doing something that's somehow reprehensible. The kind that says "see how virtuous I am". I find it convincing when a company states that they'll stop using child labour to build their cell phones, or stop buying wood from endangered forests. In this case, not so much.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 8, 2021 15:41:52 GMT -5
I don't think people are reacting to some of Dr. Seuss's low-selling books being cancelled so much as to the self-serving virtue-signalling of the publishers. The latter's self-censorship, well intentioned as it might be, also reinforces the concept that people may be hurt by being exposed to a caricature in a children's book from sixty years ago, a concept that many people find patronizing. Warning: this episode of Star Trek includes scenes in which a character is being made fun of because he has green blood. Parental discretion is advised. That argument might have a little more validity if there were Kilingons here and now amongst us. There aren't. We've all got red blood but different coloured wrapping. Oh wait! Unless this cancel culture stuff is all a ploy by someone leading up to the Shapeshifting Lizard Bitches (who really rule the planet) accidentally outing themselves by complaining about Yertle the Turtle being a gross stereotype...
I'm going off to write that. There's a story in there somewhere.
I'll have you know that Klingons have Pepto-Bismol pink blood, sir, not green!!! (Or at least they did in the movies). Ask Gina Carano about cancel culture; she's a real-world person so that should count. I don't like the lady's political views, but I also don't think an actress should lose her job because of her opinions.
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Post by impulse on Mar 8, 2021 15:43:53 GMT -5
Companies are always trying to increase goodwill and brand reputation. It would be a wasted opportunity not to say "oh dang, we have this problematic stuff and we are pulling it." It also gives them the chance to control the narrative and get their version out before someone remembers these exist and makes a fuss. If they pull them after the fact, people will say they only did it to save their butts. This way they can try to look good while they do it.
Also, I didn't watch the announcements. Did the estate actually make a proactive statement, or did someone in the media just make a stink to whip people up into a frenzy and get some views or clicks?
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Post by impulse on Mar 8, 2021 15:49:27 GMT -5
Ask Gina Carano about cancel culture; she's a real-world person so that should count. I don't like the lady's political views, but I also don't think an actress should lose her job because of her opinions. Technically, she didn't lose her job. Disney just chose not to renew her contract after she made controversial statements, John Favreau went to bat for her and got her a second chance, and then doubled down and did it again. And in any case, lots of companies have social media clauses or similar that you can't make the company look bad by association. Saying controversial crap when you're a face employee of a company like Disney is just stupid. She did that one to herself.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 8, 2021 16:02:05 GMT -5
Ask Gina Carano about cancel culture; she's a real-world person so that should count. I don't like the lady's political views, but I also don't think an actress should lose her job because of her opinions. Technically, she didn't lose her job. Disney just chose not to renew her contract after she made controversial statements, John Favreau went to bat for her and got her a second chance, and then doubled down and did it again. And in any case, lots of companies have social media clauses or similar that you can't make the company look bad by association. Saying controversial crap when you're a face employee like Disney is just stupid. She did that one to herself. All true, but she was still fired (or "not renewed") for her opinions rather than for her performance. That means that one's opinions, insofar as they are judged to be upsetting to enough customers, are ground for dismissal. That's precisely what cancel culture is: demanding that someone be fired until the employer folds, even if that person is competent and plays well with others. It's like the write-in campaigns meant to save TV shows, but in reverse. If it is progress, it's not going in a direction I find encouraging!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 8, 2021 16:02:53 GMT -5
Companies are always trying to increase goodwill and brand reputation. It would be a wasted opportunity not to say "oh dang, we has this problematic stuff and we are pulling it." It also gives them the chance to control the narrative and get their version out before someone remembers these exist and makes a fuss. If they pull them after the fact, people will say they only did it to save their butts. This way they can try to look good while they do it. Also, I didn't watch the announcements. Did the estate actually make a proactive statement, or did someone in the media just make a stink to whip people up into a frenzy and get some views or clicks? They issues a short statement. I can't find another though there may have been one. I guess they could have silently let the books go out of print, but eventually someone would have kicked up a fuss about that. Ultimately there are enough issues with enough of Seuss' work that an actual statement probably made sense. But it also was a forgone conclusion it was going to trigger someone because everything does. This is very clearly a calculated business decision to attempt to focus attention on a few problematic low-selling books to alleviate any issues from other better selling books.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 8, 2021 16:04:07 GMT -5
Companies are always trying to increase goodwill and brand reputation. It would be a wasted opportunity not to say "oh dang, we has this problematic stuff and we are pulling it." It also gives them the chance to control the narrative and get their version out before someone remembers these exist and makes a fuss. If they pull them after the fact, people will say they only did it to save their butts. This way they can try to look good while they do it. That strikes me as a very accurate assessment.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 8, 2021 16:09:52 GMT -5
Technically, she didn't lose her job. Disney just chose not to renew her contract after she made controversial statements, John Favreau went to bat for her and got her a second chance, and then doubled down and did it again. And in any case, lots of companies have social media clauses or similar that you can't make the company look bad by association. Saying controversial crap when you're a face employee like Disney is just stupid. She did that one to herself. All true, but she was still fired (or "not renewed") for her opinions rather than for her performance. That means that one's opinions, insofar as they are judged to be upsetting to enough customers, are ground for dismissal. That's precisely what cancel culture is: demanding that someone be fired until the employer folds, even if that person is competent and plays well with others. It's like the write-in campaigns meant to save TV shows, but in reverse. If it is progress, it's not going in a direction I find encouraging! Clearly nobody should face any consequences for their actions or statements. To hell with damage to the brand. "We asked you not to do something. You did it anyway. Oopsie...our bad. Keep on being a nut." At least, as best I can recall, you're consistent. The mouth-breathers who have fits about Kapernick, Nike and Keurig but turn around and whine about cancelling Dr. Seuss and Carrasco are beneath contempt.
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Post by impulse on Mar 8, 2021 16:24:48 GMT -5
Knowing not to go on a tirade about Nazis on social media when you're a very public employee of Disney of all places seems like a bare minimum intelligence check to work there. Plus, she was warned and given a second chance. Beyond that, I would be shocked if Disney didn't have some kind of morality clause or something they make people sign.
I mean shoot, if you worked gathering shopping carts in a grocery store and walked around blabbing about Nazis I bet they'd fire you for that, too. Not because they think you are one, but that's going to wig out customers, and the company won't want to be associated with that.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 8, 2021 17:49:34 GMT -5
Knowing not to go on a tirade about Nazis on social media when you're a very public employee of Disney of all places seems like a bare minimum intelligence check to work there. Plus, she was warned and given a second chance. Beyond that, I would be shocked if Disney didn't have some kind of morality clause or something they make people sign. I mean shoot, if you worked gathering shopping carts in a grocery store and walked around blabbing about Nazis I bet they'd fire you for that, too. Not because they think you are one, but that's going to wig out customers, and the company won't want to be associated with that. I agree; when an employee's behaviour is hurting business, something has to be done. It's when an employee's opinions outside of work becomes a firing excuse that I think things go too far. Firing a conservative today because we want to protect the company's good name doesn't strike me as being different from firing a communist in the '50s. I'm sure that many contracts have clauses saying that a conduct unbecoming of the brand will be ground for dismissal, and that's certainly reasonable; however, I would have thought that it took more than what Carano actually did. She retweeted the following post: " Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views?”The response to that hyperbolic post could have been "the level of hatred for the Jews in Nazi Germany and the level of irritation toward your politics today are so far apart as not to be in the same galaxy. You're being ridiculous". The post was the kind of whining we frequently see on social media (from the right, the left and even the center), and poorly thought out as it is, hardly something to be offended about. Gee, someone feels victimized and invokes Nazi Germany? News at eleven. But getting fired for retweeting that kind of nonsense? That strikes me as harsh. I don't think Disney lost too many subscribers over that post.
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