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Post by hondobrode on Jul 9, 2014 11:16:40 GMT -5
That's a legendary Legion story and Oliver Coipel is just getting into his style.
DnA is a must buy for me. Even there not so hot stuff you can still see the good in it. The only thing of theirs that's just ok for me and not so hot is Resurrection Man. Ok, but I could live without it.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 9, 2014 12:29:49 GMT -5
Agreed, Legion Lost was pretty darn good (and Pascal Alixe nicely complemented Olivier Coipel). I still prefer Legion of the damned, though!
DnA made the reboot Legion as legitimate, to me, as the original one.
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Post by gothos on Jul 9, 2014 15:25:47 GMT -5
Didn't know where else to put this (and I didn't want to create another thread), but I made the decision to start collecting Conan the Barbarian ('70's Marvel) and was wondering how far into the series I should look to get. There are a lot of folks talking this up in another thread, but is there a particular point where the quality of the book drops off, as I'm not sure if I want to try to get all 275 issues unless it is absolutely worth it. Thanks in advance! In my opinion CONAN #45 is a good place to stop and take stock. After that Roy spent several issues adapting a Gardner Fox sword-and-sorcery novel, and the work does not translate that well to the Conan milieu. I love the hell out of many works in Gardner Fox's repertoire, but his S&S novels aren't very good, except in a "so bad it's good" way. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 15:36:55 GMT -5
I don't think the Fox s&S novels translate any worse to the Conan milieu than do the Howard non-Conan stories that Thomas adapted do. Gods of Bal-Sagoth doesn't fit the Conan milieu in its original form, but Thomas makes it fit. Same with the Fox stuff. Sometimes its clunky and a square peg jammed in a round hole, but no more so that adapting Howard's non-Conan material or even some of the De Camp and Carter Conan pastiches. which if the character weren't named Conan you wouldn't guess they were Conan stories, at least not if the Howard original Conan tales are your baseline.
-M
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Post by gothos on Jul 9, 2014 15:44:04 GMT -5
To each his own, but I will agree that some adaptations worked OK, like the one of Norvell Page's FLAME WINDS.
I'd also say that after #45 Thomas's writing loses something for me. Little of what follows #45 touches his best work on the title, except maybe "Queen of the Black Coast."
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 9, 2014 19:33:09 GMT -5
How long did Buscema stay on Conan for ? He left around the middle of Jim Owlsley's (Priest) run. Sometime around 190. I think it may have been to do the Raiders of the Lost Ark adaptation, but not sure on that. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 9, 2014 19:35:31 GMT -5
That's a legendary Legion story and Oliver Coipel is just getting into his style. DnA is a must buy for me. Even there not so hot stuff you can still see the good in it. The only thing of theirs that's just ok for me and not so hot is Resurrection Man. Ok, but I could live without it. The first RM series, or the second? The first is fantastic, in my opinion, although DC really screwed the pooch with the collection. The second was pretty good, but not on the same level as the first series. |
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Post by paulie on Jul 10, 2014 10:57:07 GMT -5
How long did Buscema stay on Conan for ? He left around the middle of Jim Owlsley's (Priest) run. Sometime around 190. I think it may have been to do the Raiders of the Lost Ark adaptation, but not sure on that. The editor makes a comment in a subsequent letters page that Buscema left to do Avengers and Fantastic Four. This would have been in the summer of 1986. Buscema drew about ten pages for the triple-size FF anniversary issue (296) and then became the regular penciller of that title for about a year after. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 10, 2014 11:28:20 GMT -5
Didn't know where else to put this (and I didn't want to create another thread), but I made the decision to start collecting Conan the Barbarian ('70's Marvel) and was wondering how far into the series I should look to get. There are a lot of folks talking this up in another thread, but is there a particular point where the quality of the book drops off, as I'm not sure if I want to try to get all 275 issues unless it is absolutely worth it. Thanks in advance! If you can find a complete set for a decent price, it's probably a good option; not that the entire run is worth it, but because certain rare issues will cost a lot if bought individually. As far as quality goes, the first 115 issues are one continuous storyline written by Roy Thomas, as Scott indicated, and although they're not equally good they sure are better than a lot of what was to follow. The artwork by Barry Smith in issues 1-16, then 19-24 (with 17 and 18 being drawn by Gil Kane) makes those issues must-haves (or at least must-reads). It is very neat to see Smith progress by leaps and bounds as an artist, going from a quirky Kirby-wannabe to a master of the craft in just over two years. John Buscema then takes over for almost every issue until #190. Thematically, there is a shift in issue #58. Up til then, the story is basically that of a fish out of water, as the barbarian Conan discovers the civilized lands of the south and tries to make his fortune here and there, trying his hand at thievery and soldiery, becoming familiar with the way things are done in big cities and in organized warfare. Starting in issue #58, he starts a career as a pirate among corsairs from what would eventually become Africa; he also gets a steady girl with whom he'll stay for several years. Sailing the seas and sometimes having adventures in the jungle or in the proto-Egyptian desert, he'll eventually end up alone (long story!) in issue #100 and will travel back, slowly, toward the civilized lands he had frequented earlier. He's almost there when Roy leaves the mag with issue #115. Issues #116 to 170 are pretty bad. Even a stint by Gil Kane in issues 127-134 couldn't make a difference, mostly because his pencils were inked by Danny Bulanadi. That particular run is extremely generic, does not follow the original story set down in prose by Conan's creator Robert Howard, nor the comic-book continuity carefully set up by Roy in this mag and in Savage Sword. Issues 171 saw the arrival ofJim Owsley as writer, and although Howard purists tend not to like his run, I enjoyed it a lot... principally because even if it did not resume Thomas' almost academic treatment of the Conan saga, it did have a continuing storyline with actual characters in it. On the art front, John Buscema was replaced by Val Semeiks with issue 191; he'd stay until issue 216, give or take a guest artist or two. (Semeiks brought a fresh new look to the mag; pretty good stuff, especially when inked by Isherwood). Then it was a return to "Generic swords and sandals stories, Inc." until issue 232, where things surprisingly managed to take a turn for the worse!!! It was decided that readers would better identify with a younger Conan, and so the series was essentially rebooted in a sort of "Conan year one" fashion. Except that the stories had nothing to do with the actual early issues of the mag, that they disagreed with pretty much anything Howard had written, and that they didn't even look good. (I never understood why Ron Lim had so many fans on the Silver Surfer, but his clean art was sort of suited to that mag; in Conan, it's really pretty bad). Thank Crom, with issue 240 Roy Thomas came back to his brainchild and made it interesting again. He resumed the storyline interrupted in issue #115 and stayed at the helm until the final issue, #275. The last issue had a low print run and is pretty expensive, unfortunately. My favorite issues in this late period are the ones drawn by Mike Docherty and inked by Ricardo Villagran; say, 258 to the end. Good hunting! |
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Post by The Captain on Jul 10, 2014 12:00:17 GMT -5
Thanks for all of the input on Conan! Looks like I'm going to start with the Roy Thomas issues, both the original run and when he returns to the book, while ignoring most of the rest for now.
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Post by paulie on Jul 10, 2014 12:04:36 GMT -5
Didn't know where else to put this (and I didn't want to create another thread), but I made the decision to start collecting Conan the Barbarian ('70's Marvel) and was wondering how far into the series I should look to get. There are a lot of folks talking this up in another thread, but is there a particular point where the quality of the book drops off, as I'm not sure if I want to try to get all 275 issues unless it is absolutely worth it. Thanks in advance! If you can find a complete set for a decent price, it's probably a good option; not that the entire run is worth it, but because certain rare issues will cost a lot if bought individually. As far as quality goes, the first 115 issues are one continuous storyline written by Roy Thomas, as Scott indicated, and although they're not equally good they sure are better than a lot of what was to follow. The artwork by Barry Smith in issues 1-16, then 19-24 (with 17 and 18 being drawn by Gil Kane) makes those issues must-haves (or at least must-reads). It is very neat to see Smith progress by leaps and bounds as an artist, going from a quirky Kirby-wannabe to a master of the craft in just over two years. John Buscema then takes over for almost every issue until #190. Thematically, there is a shift in issue #58. Up til then, the story is basically that of a fish out of water, as the barbarian Conan discovers the civilized lands of the south and tries to make his fortune here and there, trying his hand at thievery and soldiery, becoming familiar with the way things are done in big cities and in organized warfare. Starting in issue #58, he starts a career as a pirate among corsairs from what would eventually become Africa; he also gets a steady girl with whom he'll stay for several years. Sailing the seas and sometimes having adventures in the jungle or in the proto-Egyptian desert, he'll eventually end up alone (long story!) in issue #100 and will travel back, slowly, toward the civilized lands he had frequented earlier. He's almost there when Roy leaves the mag with issue #115. Issues #116 to 170 are pretty bad. Even a stint by Gil Kane in issues 127-134 couldn't make a difference, mostly because his pencils were inked by Danny Bulanadi. That particular run is extremely generic, does not follow the original story set down in prose by Conan's creator Robert Howard, nor the comic-book continuity carefully set up by Roy in this mag and in Savage Sword. Issues 171 saw the arrival ofJim Owsley as writer, and although Howard purists tend not to like his run, I enjoyed it a lot... principally because even if it did not resume Thomas' almost academic treatment of the Conan saga, it did have a continuing storyline with actual characters in it. On the art front, John Buscema was replaced by Val Semeiks with issue 191; he'd stay until issue 216, give or take a guest artist or two. (Semeiks brought a fresh new look to the mag; pretty good stuff, especially when inked by Isherwood). Then it was a return to "Generic swords and sandals stories, Inc." until issue 232, where things surprisingly managed to take a turn for the worse!!! It was decided that readers would better identify with a younger Conan, and so the series was essentially rebooted in a sort of "Conan year one" fashion. Except that the stories had nothing to do with the actual early issues of the mag, that they disagreed with pretty much anything Howard had written, and that they didn't even look good. (I never understood why Ron Lim had so many fans on the Silver Surfer, but his clean art was sort of suited to that mag; in Conan, it's really pretty bad). Thank Crom, with issue 240 Roy Thomas came back to his brainchild and made it interesting again. He resumed the storyline interrupted in issue #115 and stayed at the helm until the final issue, #275. The last issue had a low print run and is pretty expensive, unfortunately. My favorite issues in this late period are the ones drawn by Mike Docherty and inked by Ricardo Villagran; say, 258 to the end. Good hunting! I agree with all of the above. Danny Bulanadi ruined more than one Marvel book in the early 80s.
I can find little to dislike about Conan 1-115. I know there are folks who take issue with padding the Queen of the Black Coast story out over 4 years but I liked the Belit character and fleshing her out helped flesh out the Hyborian world in general for me.
To say that issues 117 - 170 are utterly pointless is spot on. 116 is a Neal Adams reprint from some sort of promotion from around 1975 or so and worth a look.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 10, 2014 13:38:03 GMT -5
I said this before on the old boards but I'll say it again: I like Bulanadi's inks over Kane, certainly more than I like Gil's self-inking. I also thought the finishes Bulanadi did over Bob Budiansky's pencils on the 1984 Sub-Mariner mini-series were stunning.
Cei-U!
I summon the dissenting opinion!
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Post by paulie on Jul 10, 2014 13:59:26 GMT -5
I said this before on the old boards but I'll say it again: I like Bulanadi's inks over Kane, certainly more than I like Gil's self-inking. I also thought the finishes Bulanadi did over Bob Budiansky's pencils on the 1984 Sub-Mariner mini-series were stunning. Cei-U! I summon the dissenting opinion! Fair enough. I remember you liking those issues of Micronauts.
I believe I stated on the old board that I did like Danny B's inks on David Mazzuchelli when he first started drawing Daredevil.
So here's a little love for Danny Bulanadi on a Thursday afternoon!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 10, 2014 15:27:40 GMT -5
I said this before on the old boards but I'll say it again: I like Bulanadi's inks over Kane, certainly more than I like Gil's self-inking.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 16:08:02 GMT -5
That's a legendary Legion story and Oliver Coipel is just getting into his style. DnA is a must buy for me. Even there not so hot stuff you can still see the good in it. The only thing of theirs that's just ok for me and not so hot is Resurrection Man. Ok, but I could live without it. I love Legion Lost so much. DnA and Coipel is a legendary team. |
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