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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Feb 27, 2016 6:01:42 GMT -5
Oh yeah, have all of them, a good series indeed! Great John Bolton art!
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Post by tingramretro on Feb 27, 2016 10:49:23 GMT -5
Oh yeah, have all of them, a good series indeed! Great John Bolton art! In any sentence containing the phrase "John Bolton art", the word "great" is effectively redundant, kind of like putting the word "true" before the word "fact".
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Post by berkley on Feb 27, 2016 20:19:49 GMT -5
I'm pretty good on keeping up with modern stuff, including Prophet and Black Science. I do need to read more Pope. I've read 100% and intend to read more. Bourbon Thret is something I obviously need to read. 100% and Heavy Liquid are both great SF series and easy to get hold of The Nikopol trilogy is quite overrated IMHO : It's pretty to look at if you're into Bilal's aesthetic, but the storytelling skills are close to zero. But the worst is the plot, an esoteric mess of references that makes Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum look like a work of constraint minimalism It's true that Bilal's artwork is a large part of the attraction his stuff from that period has for me, but "esoteric mess of references" doesn't strike me as necessarily an entirely negative thing. But then again, I tend to like Morrison's stuff more than I think you do - at least what I consider the best of it (e.g. Invisibles, Filth), though I haven't read Arkham Asylum as I usually avoid his DCU-based work. I've had a hard time finding Paul Pope's stuff at what I consider reasonable prices, for some reason, but will keep looking.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Feb 27, 2016 20:30:01 GMT -5
100% and Heavy Liquid are both great SF series and easy to get hold of The Nikopol trilogy is quite overrated IMHO : It's pretty to look at if you're into Bilal's aesthetic, but the storytelling skills are close to zero. But the worst is the plot, an esoteric mess of references that makes Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum look like a work of constraint minimalism It's true that Bilal's artwork is a large part of the attraction his stuff from that period has for me, but "esoteric mess of references" doesn't strike me as necessarily an entirely negative thing. But then again, I tend to like Morrison's stuff more than I think you do - at least what I consider the best of it (e.g. Invisibles, Filth), though I haven't read Arkham Asylum as I usually avoid his DCU-based work. I've had a hard time finding Paul Pope's stuff at what I consider reasonable prices, for some reason, but will keep looking. Really? I bought those at release date in floppies, but I thought those would be cheap and easy to find : www.amazon.com/100%25-Paul-Pope/dp/1401221335/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456622577&sr=8-1&keywords=paul+pope+100%25I like very much some Morrison (The Filth being one of my fave SF comics ever), but as much as I like Arkham Asylum, it is quite self indulgeant. Bilal is a fine illustrator, but a poor storyteller. He's good at hiding this with a strong and unique aesthetic and using (too?) many esoteric references to make the work look smarter than it actualy is. He's a much better artist when paired with a writer, as is his early work. He is very popular artist in France, but mostly amongst people who don't really like comic books.
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Post by berkley on Feb 27, 2016 22:38:52 GMT -5
It's true that Bilal's artwork is a large part of the attraction his stuff from that period has for me, but "esoteric mess of references" doesn't strike me as necessarily an entirely negative thing. But then again, I tend to like Morrison's stuff more than I think you do - at least what I consider the best of it (e.g. Invisibles, Filth), though I haven't read Arkham Asylum as I usually avoid his DCU-based work. I've had a hard time finding Paul Pope's stuff at what I consider reasonable prices, for some reason, but will keep looking. Really? I bought those at release date in floppies, but I thought those would be cheap and easy to find : www.amazon.com/100%25-Paul-Pope/dp/1401221335/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456622577&sr=8-1&keywords=paul+pope+100%25I like very much some Morrison (The Filth being one of my fave SF comics ever), but as much as I like Arkham Asylum, it is quite self indulgeant. Bilal is a fine illustrator, but a poor storyteller. He's good at hiding this with a strong and unique aesthetic and using (too?) many esoteric references to make the work look smarter than it actualy is. He's a much better artist when paired with a writer, as is his early work. He is very popular artist in France, but mostly amongst people who don't really like comic books. For me, the combination of his outstanding artwork with the evocative choice of imagery (e.g. Egyptian gods juxtaposed with decrepit cityscapes of a future dystopia) is strong enough in itself that the lack of a compelling narrative doesn't really bother me too much, or at least that's what I remember feeling when I read Nikopol 15 or 20 years ago. I love a good story as much as anyone, but not everything has to be centred around a strong plot-structure. I just finished reading JG Ballard's The Atrocity Exhibition, which works its effect via a presentation of concepts and images and very little plot to speak of. I'm not saying that Bilal was deliberately trying to do the same kind of thing Ballard did in his novel (Ballard's book is certainly built upon a coherent, though strange, set of core ideas, which I'm not sure can be said of Nikopol), but I did find it was able to compel my interest just through its style and imagery. Also, I'd disagree that he's a bad storyteller per se - he can set scene and create short vignettes that move from panel to panel nicely, so the basic skills are there. But I think you're talking more about the overall plot, which I agree wasn't necessarily thought out so well. Interestingly, he changed the story quite a bit for his self-directed movie version, IIRC, so maybe he agreed with you. Like I said, I tend to stay away from Morrison's work-for-hire stuff, partly because he works with characters that don't interest me much (Superman, Batman, etc), but also partly because I think he allows his love for those characters to overrule his good judgement at times, and ends up producing the worst kind of fan-service stories where Batman can do no wrong, Superman is the only real superhero, etc,etc. Couldn't get the Paul Pope link to work, but I was looking for the three I believe have been recommended here - THB, 100%, and Heavy Liquid: the first seems to be out of print, the 2nd & 3rd seem to be priced in the $30-$40+ range (yes, I am cheap). Wait, I do see a used copy of 100% for about $15 including shipping, might go for that one.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Feb 27, 2016 23:07:36 GMT -5
And there's always his recent Battling Boy GN! The Enki Bilal movie was IMHO incredibly bad, like laughing out bad, but hey, to each his own On the storytelling, he has worked with great writers in the 70ies early 8àies, so thank good he has some basic skills, but he falls in love with his drawings way too often, which results in quasi splash pages all too often. And his style is very static, which doesn't help. I don't know, I just feels he kind of is a little bit of a hack when it comes to actual comics, more interested to have it look "pretty" than to have it make sense BTW, sorry, I don' mean to be contrarian, he's just one of those who strikes a nerve. It may be since for years, whenever french media talked about comic books, he was the usual guest, which IMP led many people to have a very dishonnest appreciation of comics : they don't like comics because it's childish, but they like this because it's artsy and tries very hard tobe/look sophisticated and intelligent. Ha! SOrry again, you see, he's that polarizing
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Post by berkley on Feb 27, 2016 23:16:40 GMT -5
And there's always his recent Battling Boy GN! The Enki Bilal movie was IMHO incredibly bad, like laughing out bad, but hey, to each his own On the storytelling, he has worked with great writers in the 70ies early 8àies, so thank good he has some basic skills, but he falls in love with his drawings way too often, which results in quasi splash pages all too often. And his style is very static, which doesn't help. I don't know, I just feels he kind of is a little bit of a hack when it comes to actual comics, more interested to have it look "pretty" than to have it make sense BTW, sorry, I don' mean to be contrarian, he's just one of those who strikes a nerve. It may be since for years, whenever french media talked about comic books, he was the usual guest, which IMP led many people to have a very dishonnest appreciation of comics : they don't like comics because it's childish, but they like this because it's artsy and tries very hard tobe/look sophisticated and intelligent. Ha! SOrry again, you see, he's that polarizing Yes, I can see how that would be a turn-off. Perhaps it's due to similar feelings that I've stayed away from Spiegleman's Maus all these years. No need to apologise for disagreeing. I know we don't see eye to eye on some other artists as well, like Druillet, whom I think you also find little more a purveyor of pretty pictures. But no disagreement, no discussion!
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Feb 28, 2016 6:28:33 GMT -5
You're mostly right on Druillet as well, except I don't find him pretentious as I do with Bilal, which makes a huge difference. Plus Druillet is an "experimentalist", with often failed ventures IMHO, but at least he's trying something and somewhat interested in the craft when Bilal seems only interested by himself in his art.
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Post by MDG on Feb 29, 2016 9:12:54 GMT -5
I love a good story as much as anyone, but not everything has to be centred around a strong plot-structure. I just finished reading JG Ballard's The Atrocity Exhibition, which works its effect via a presentation of concepts and images and very little plot to speak of. I'm not saying that Bilal was deliberately trying to do the same kind of thing Ballard did in his novel (Ballard's book is certainly built upon a coherent, though strange, set of core ideas, which I'm not sure can be said of Nikopol), but I did find it was able to compel my interest just through its style and imagery. To bring this around to comics, there's an edition of The Atrocity Exhibition with illustrations by medical illustrator/cartoonist Phoebe Gloeckner.
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