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Post by Spike-X on Dec 4, 2015 4:57:03 GMT -5
Bone is simply wonderful.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 4, 2015 8:52:07 GMT -5
The essential Thor #4 contains issues 167-195. It covers the final Thor issues by Kirby, a few issues by Neal Adams and the start of John Buscema's run.
I very much like Buscema's Thor. It obviously cannot match Kirby's art in its Kirbyesque aesthetics, but then that doesn't seem to be the artist's goal. His pencils inked by Joe Sinnott and Sam Grainger are bold and clean (an issue inked by Jim Mooney is a low note, though) and Buscema seems to enjoy drawing Trolls, giants and fantasy worlds.
I recently mentioned how much I loved the way Stan Lee had Asgardians talk. It's always a joy to see Stan use antiquated words and ponderous sentences in the middle of a big fight scene. It's as if by adding impossible dialogue to silly battles between monsters and space gods he makes the latter easier to accept; it's as if he truly is telling us "hey, just take this comic for what it is! Admit you're having fun even if it's silly". And the amusing dialogues are a good thing, because plot-wise these Thor issues have many flaws that the much younger me failed to notice in the '70s.
That Stan doesn't quite seem to remember what he wrote two months before is a bit problem as far as continuity goes. This leads to silly situations like one in the early issues of the volume: Thor is condemned by Odin to atone for a grievous sin by undergoing a potentially suicidal mission. The sin? He got angry during a fight! (as if he didn't as a matter of course. And who is Odin to blame others for having a bad temper? He's crankier than a Star Wars fan at a Twilight convention). The mission? To find... Galactus!!! So far, so good: finding Galactus is indeed not something trivial; it could take an eternity to scour the universe looking for him, and the fellow is patently dangerous. So Thor and his friends bemoan his cruel fate because it might be the last time they see each other and blablablah.
Thor sets on his mission aboard a brand new Asgardian ship, the only one that can see him through this long and arduous mission. Off we go on this cosmic odyssey!
But then Thor is just whisked away by Galactus, who wants to settle matters as fast as possible. That's when we realize that Odin didn't exactly tell Thor what he was to do once he found the big G, but it doesn't matter: it's the planet eater who controls the agenda, and he proceeds... to tell us his origin. That's it? Oh, well, at least we will finally know how this force of nature came to be.
Warning: big disappointment ahead. Galactus has the same damn origin as pretty much every villain in the Marvel universe: he was a normal bloke who got exposed to radiation, and that turned him into a super-being who happens to eat planets. That he was from an alien world dying from a universal plague and that the source of radiation was "the biggest sun in the universe" barely adds spice to the dish. (By the way, the universal plague is never mentioned again... Seriously, someone should get to work on that).
The lady Sif shows up for a minute or so, without the need for any special spaceship or anything, then goes back to Asgard when Thor asks her to leave him to face Galactus alone. Damn, had we known how easy it was, we could have spared the pages explaining how nearly impossible it would be to find Galactus!
Once the story is over, Odin appears and basically says "well done, son, that's all I wanted to know; you can come home". That's it? That's Thor's punishment for his terrible sin? He travels for ten minutes and listens to a story Odin must have already known?
This type of "let's set things up and then completely forget about them" is typical of the early Thor series. Some crisis or peril would be hinted at for an issue or two ("doom! gloom! Oh, woe is us!"), and finally turn out to be almost nothing at all. Kind of like that time some of the Avengers stopped looking for vanished team mates because of... "the DATE!" The date caused them to give up on their friends, cross New York by jumping over cars and almost causing accidents... so they could give presents to kids in a hospital or orphanage or whatever. Priorities, like.
Where was I? Oh yeah, Thor.
Another story here revolves around the primeval fire demon Surtur attacking Asgard while Odin is taking a nap. Things heat up for a while (no pun intended) and get so exciting that Vince Colletta forgets to ink Surtur's massive horns for a few images. But then Odin shows up, snaps his fingers and Surtur goes back to hell (or Muspelheim, if you prefer). Another big set up with little payoff. (Walt Simonson sure wrote a more convincing Surtur a few years later!)
Loki also suffers from severe STCS (short-term continuity syndrome). One issue he escapes from the good guys after impersonating his brother for a while; another he escapes from his prison planet (just when was he apprehended?) to lead a failed attack on Asgard; and just a few issues down the line he's still living in Asgard as if nothing had happened. And I'm not even mentioning his attempted murder of Odin and his usurping his father's throne, offenses that would normally warrant some sort of official sanction; but no, it's only Thor who gets exiled for getting angry. Ah, Odin, you move in mysterious ways...
But anyway, despite these recurrent plot holes, the book is a huge lot of fun to read. It doesn't take itself seriously and embraces its inherent outlandish nature with good-hearted levity. Big monsters attack! Gallant heroes charge to the fore on horseback! Gods and aliens mix, with medieval weapons and atomic cannons! People use exclamation marks! Yay!!!
I'll definitely pick up my copy of volume 5 once I'm done with this one. Few series, even better-plotted one, can brag of making me do that!
Forsooth!
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Dec 4, 2015 9:38:05 GMT -5
Great review RR. No surprise I have most of these issues with Him, but I do believe, though not one you mention, 157 I bought very early into collecting because of the cover. It remains one of my favorite Thor and Kirby covers. Kirby was great on Thor and his Mangog remains untouched in my opinion. I'd like to read the rest now, as I only have 193 after 169.
Thou thine funds be not abundant, to not be reading these, I say thee nay! To the library!
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 4, 2015 17:57:35 GMT -5
I just read those issues recently for the first time, too when I got the Masterworks cheap. Really, REALLY dug 'em! (And I thought they were, at least, better plotted than a lot of the later Kirby issues. Odin waves his hand and Mangog vanishes?! Lamest. Ending. Ever!)
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Post by Cei-U! on Dec 4, 2015 19:45:57 GMT -5
If memory serves, Galactus' origin was later retconned so that he was the sole survivor of the universe that existed prior to the Big Bang and the "universal plague" he was fleeing was entropy itself. A big improvement on what RR rightly cites as a run-ofthe-mill Lee/Kirby origin.
Cei-U! I summon the second thought!
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 4, 2015 20:43:20 GMT -5
This type of "let's set things up and then completely forget about them" is typical of the early Thor series. Some crisis or peril would be hinted at for an issue or two ("doom! gloom! Oh, woe is us!"), and finally turn out to be almost nothing at all. Kind of like that time some of the Avengers stopped looking for vanished team mates because of... "the DATE!" The date caused them to give up on their friends, cross New York by jumping over cars and almost causing accidents... so they could give presents to kids in a hospital or orphanage or whatever. Priorities, like. Ha! Yeah, I remember that issue but It's the superhero biz, after all. Maybe they figured " these things happen" They'll find their way back. LOL.
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Post by dbutler69 on Dec 5, 2015 9:59:47 GMT -5
If memory serves, Galactus' origin was later retconned so that he was the sole survivor of the universe that existed prior to the Big Bang and the "universal plague" he was fleeing was entropy itself. A big improvement on what RR rightly cites as a run-ofthe-mill Lee/Kirby origin. Cei-U! I summon the second thought! Didn't Byrne do that new origin?
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Post by Cei-U! on Dec 5, 2015 17:53:31 GMT -5
If memory serves, Galactus' origin was later retconned so that he was the sole survivor of the universe that existed prior to the Big Bang and the "universal plague" he was fleeing was entropy itself. A big improvement on what RR rightly cites as a run-ofthe-mill Lee/Kirby origin. Cei-U! I summon the second thought! Didn't Byrne do that new origin? Yes, with input from Mark Gruenwald and Ralph Macchio. Cei-U! I summon the pedigree!
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 5, 2015 19:26:36 GMT -5
Didn't Byrne do that new origin? Yes, with input from Mark Gruenwald and Ralph Macchio. Cei-U! I summon the pedigree! I guess that makes up for Spider-man: Chapter 1
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Post by berkley on Dec 5, 2015 20:25:31 GMT -5
I wonder if some of those later Lee/Kirby Thors (and FFs?) suffer from a lack of communication between Lee and Kirby resulting from the deterioration in their relationship, as well as a drop-off in Kirby's interest in the work he was producing for Marvel. The Man-Gog saga - which I suppose comes near the beginning of this period, or around the transition between the peak years and the late period - starts off great and builds considerable suspense and tension until fizzling in one of the most anti-climactic endings ever. The Galactus story reads like something he just didn't have his heart in at all. And so on.
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Post by Pharozonk on Dec 5, 2015 21:31:29 GMT -5
Yes, with input from Mark Gruenwald and Ralph Macchio. Cei-U! I summon the pedigree! I guess that makes up for Spider-man: Chapter 1 No, it still doesn't.
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Post by byronlomax on Dec 6, 2015 20:13:18 GMT -5
I'm currently reading through Paul Jenkins' run on Hellblazer from the mid-90s. I happened across most of the issues in a second-hand shop. It's really solid so far - Jenkins retains elements from the Delano and Ennis runs, without reveling in the worst excesses of either. A lot of the run tries to tie up loose ends from previous storylines, but it does help make Constantine's rather convoluted history more focused and cohesive. John's latest batch of friends do grate on the nerves a bit, though.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 7, 2015 7:02:50 GMT -5
If memory serves, Galactus' origin was later retconned so that he was the sole survivor of the universe that existed prior to the Big Bang and the "universal plague" he was fleeing was entropy itself. A big improvement on what RR rightly cites as a run-ofthe-mill Lee/Kirby origin. Cei-U! I summon the second thought! Agreed; the "last survivor of the previous universe" was in fact the first one I came across for the big G (I read it in the Handbook in the 80s). It certainly has a grandeur suited to Galactus, but I don't know where it was first mentionned in actual comics. Was it during Reed's trial? I remember Galactus being said to be one part of a Death-Eternity-Galactus triad, but little more.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 7, 2015 7:10:42 GMT -5
I'm currently reading through Paul Jenkins' run on Hellblazer from the mid-90s. I happened across most of the issues in a second-hand shop. It's really solid so far - Jenkins retains elements from the Delano and Ennis runs, without reveling in the worst excesses of either. A lot of the run tries to tie up loose ends from previous storylines, but it does help make Constantine's rather convoluted history more focused and cohesive. John's latest batch of friends do grate on the nerves a bit, though. I was extremely surprised to enjoy Jenkins' run so much after having been completely sold on Ennis's version of Constantine. Agreed on the new friends... They also seemed a little tacked on, because we were under the impression that most or all of John's old acquaintances had been killed by then. Still, I'm glad they weren't introduced just so they could all be used as cannon fodder. The art by Sean Philips played a big role in my appreciation, I'm sure; the man made the book very believable. But Jenkins really knocked it out of the ballpark with his subtle stories that walked a thin line between the spooky and the mythological. His England sure looked like an interesting place!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 7, 2015 9:10:46 GMT -5
I wonder if some of those later Lee/Kirby Thors (and FFs?) suffer from a lack of communication between Lee and Kirby resulting from the deterioration in their relationship, as well as a drop-off in Kirby's interest in the work he was producing for Marvel. The Man-Gog saga - which I suppose comes near the beginning of this period, or around the transition between the peak years and the late period - starts off great and builds considerable suspense and tension until fizzling in one of the most anti-climactic endings ever. The Galactus story reads like something he just didn't have his heart in at all. And so on. Yes, the original Mangog story had a very frustrating non-ending! I think that's why it was remade immediately after Stan left the book, with a much more dramatic conclusion. In a sense, and probably accidentally, this pattern reflects medieval tales as written by the likes of Chrétien de Troyes : a minstrel would start a story, bring the tale to an appropriate cliffhanger, and then it was time to go to bed. The next day he'd basically set aside what he had been building to and would start anew with the same character, branching a specific quest into so many side-quests that (a) you'd never get to the end of any single one, and (b) you even forgot what the original quest was about. Cripes, Perceval never even found the bloody Holy Grail! Luckily for us, Stan did give us some kind of conclusion.
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