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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2019 8:43:11 GMT -5
I need to track this issue down ... Duragizer ... I have never, ever seen this! One action-packed Cover! I'm happy to say I have that. I could never pass up something with that many superheroes on the cover. Picked up my mail today and got a copy in fairly good condition and paid $7 for it. I'm planning on reading it later on today!
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Apr 17, 2019 16:30:34 GMT -5
Totally and utterly disagree. The footnotes are essential. They really are. However, I've never read them by flicking back and forth as I read the comic, like Repti did. Instead The Captain, I recommend reading all of the footnotes related to a particular chapter (or issue, if you'd rather) when you finish that chapter. You know, a bit like you'd read the prose bits at the end of each chapter of Watchmen. From Hell's footnotes are no less important. They give essential historical context, shed light on what is going on in the main narrative, explain some of Moore's storytelling choices and where he took his theories from, and generally further immerse the reader in the world of Victorian London. Heck, I even have the From Hell Companion for extra footnotes!! My Half-Price Books has a copy of the Companion, so maybe I'll pick that up as well and not have to flip back and forth. As a trained history educator (back before I went into corporate supply chain as a career), I think that having all of the historical context and information will enhance my enjoyment of the book rather than detract from the experience. Appreciate both of your perspectives! That's why I love this place. Just to say, the companion doesn't replicate the endnotes in the back of the book itself, so you will still need to read them. The companion volume focuses more on Moore and Campbell's artistic choices, as well as reproducing sections of Moore's original script, with his copious annotations and thumbnail sketches. The endnotes in From Hell itself are essential, I'd say, to fully enjoy the book. The From Hell Companion, on the other hand, is more for those who are already familiar with the book and want to go deeper into how it was created.
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Post by urrutiap on Apr 18, 2019 11:49:42 GMT -5
Earlier today I was reading Uncanny X-Men # 214 to 218 from the Essential X-Men Volume 7 trade paperback.
The stories in those issues they're ok but i was getting bored reading through them except for Dazzler fighting Juggernaut on her own in the grassy fields of Ireland.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 18, 2019 15:34:02 GMT -5
So the trick to reading From Hell is to ignore the footnotes in the back and just read the story. First time I I kept trying to flip back and forth, it took me forever to read, and after a hundred or pages I just gave up. Totally and utterly disagree. The footnotes are essential. They really are. However, I've never read them by flicking back and forth as I read the comic, like Repti did. Instead The Captain , I recommend reading all of the footnotes related to a particular chapter (or issue, if you'd rather) when you finish that chapter. You know, a bit like you'd read the prose bits at the end of each chapter of Watchmen. From Hell's footnotes are no less important. They give essential historical context, shed light on what is going on in the main narrative, explain some of Moore's storytelling choices and where he took his theories from, and generally further immerse the reader in the world of Victorian London. Yeeeeaaaaahhhh I dunno. I think I am on team "comic books should not have extensive footnotes.*" The footnotes were interesting but I'm not sure they enhanced my enjoyment of the actual story. (Which is very, very good, BTW.) As a separate essay on the history and philosophy of Ripperology I would have enjoyed it, but the footnote format didn't work for me. Every fiction writer worth a crap does a buncha research. You don't gotta brag about it in the back of the book. And the footnotes eventually cohered into a narrative of their own with their own theme and even their own plot... And that theme and plot was 79% different from the theme and plot of the actual story. They honestly didn't feel like complementary works to me. * Cerebus did the same thing, also annoying.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 19, 2019 7:28:10 GMT -5
ALSO IF I AM READING COMICS I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO READ PAGES AND PAGES OF %$^&ing TEXT, I MEAN COME ON!
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Apr 19, 2019 7:58:03 GMT -5
ALSO IF I AM READING COMICS I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO READ PAGES AND PAGES OF %$^&ing TEXT, I MEAN COME ON! Why all the capitals? This comes across as quite aggressive. As for not wanting to read text pages with your comics, why not? If it adds to the experience of reading the story, what's the problem? And, in the case of From Hell, I definitely think that it does enhance the work. After all, the text is much more than just evidence of Moore's reasearch, as I noted in an earlier post: it provides important historical context, background to the characters, supplementary information about what is going on in the main narrative, and additional info about the Ripper murders. It seems to me that what you're saying here is limiting comics, in terms of what they can and can't be, a lot. You might as well say that all films should be silly action films, or all books should be soppy romance stories, or all music should be throwaway pop. Comics are like any other media form: some are just dumb superhero fun, but others can change the way you see the world. I don't see why that's a problem or a difficult concept to get your head around. If you only want dumb superhero comics, fair enough...I like 'em too. But I also demand something much more cerebral on occasion, and, personally, I rather like reading historical prose anyway
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Post by urrutiap on Apr 19, 2019 17:16:17 GMT -5
I kind of agree about old comic books having way too much text for dialogue. old Uncanny X Men is guilt of this as well since I read through issues 214 to 118 recently.
If I want to read a whole paragraph of text I can go read a frikkin novel for that.
Comic books. I want short simple dialogue and the rest pretty much all action in the comic panels.
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Post by The Captain on Apr 19, 2019 17:54:37 GMT -5
Had today off for Good Friday and since I was on my normal sleep/wake schedule, I got up around 5:15 AM and finished the second half of V for Vendetta before either of my daughters got out of bed.
As with Watchmen, I think I enjoyed this more the second time through because I owned the copy of it this time, rather than having borrowed it from the local library, and as such, I didn't feel like I HAD to read it in a certain amount of time. That allowed me to immerse myself in it and read at a more-leisurely pace. If I wanted to go back and look over a page or two, or examine a particular panel a little longer, I could.
I think I'm going to cleanse the palate with a little mindless superhero fare before diving into From Hell. Not sure what, but it's not going to be anything that makes me have to think too hard.
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Post by chadwilliam on Apr 19, 2019 17:56:35 GMT -5
Picked up about 50 various Superman comics from the mid-90's since they were going for twenty cents a piece and...
I don't know. I'm not proud of it, but I did buy the Superman titles from about Zero Hour until sometime in 1996 and there must have been something about these comics that I liked enough to purchase them on a weekly basis. I can't quite figure what that something was but when going through these, I keep feeling as though I'm getting close to figuring out what it was. There are some interesting ideas there - 'Dead Again' begins with Superman's corpse being discovered within the tomb which housed his body before it was determined that he had come back from the grave which means people are now wondering who this guy with the mullet is flying around Metropolis. There's a nice little standalone tale in which Superman has to face off against a robot programmed to protect the lives of an entire planet being stored in cryo when Superman registers as a threat. 'The Trial of Superman' sees Supes placed on trial for the destruction of Krypton (because the post-Crisis Superman's ancestor developed a drug which kept all Krytonians stuck on their planet when it exploded, Superman himself is sentenced to death to pay for his crime) and it's a nice little tale with a bunch of onetime characters who deserved to be seen again. Speaking of minor characters, though he's pretty one-note, I'm surprised that the Superteam didn't keep villain Conduit around longer than they did - a villain who's obsessed with killing Clark Kent and then later Superman when he discovers their connection - if for no other reason than the fact that he is a pretty cool looking bad guy. The Alpha Centurian - a sort of good guy Terra Man except he's from ancient Rome - was fun and doesn't deserve the comic book limbo he's been relegated to for the past twenty-something years.
On the other hand...
Sooo many of these stories feature a Superman who's out of control. Dead Again? Superman is so incapable of figuring out what's going on with this corpse in his tomb that you get issue after issue of Superman screaming at the sky, screaming at passerbys ("Who goes there?" I'M SUPERMAN! GOT THAT?! SUPERMAN!!!") and even at one point threatening to rip the corpse apart limb by limb until deciding that punching his fist through Maggie Sawyer's head would be the best way to prove he is who he claims. Thankfully Mr. Mxyzptlk shows up (who Superman is convinced is behind his ordeal) to prove that he isn't and Superman is stopped from doing something he'd later regret. The Conduit saga? Once again, Superman's pushed beyond his breaking point, screams at the sky, clenches his teeth, yells a lot ("YAAARRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!") but doesn't actually do anything until the problem becomes one he can pound with his fists. The Joker has poisoned Lois Lane and tells Superman that the only way to save her is by extracting an antidote from his blood but doing so would kill The Joker in the process? Another tale of page after page of Superman clenching his jaw, smashing through walls, screaming at the sky, but thankfully, Batman is there to tell him to calm down. Thankfully, as Superman waits for Lois to die, she wakes from his coma and Supes learns that The Joker was bluffing the whole time about the poison being fatal. Again yet another "Give me something to punch and I'll punch it, but give me a problem to solve and I'll shoot heat beams into the sky while tearing my costume off my body as I scream to the heavens" tale. Ugh.
I do like Dan Jurgens artwork however. Not so much to justify his penchant for doing stuff like cramming his issues with splash page after splash page - ie. page one. Splash of Superman lifting a train. page two and three. double page splash as Superman speaks to engineer. page four. three panel layout of Superman apologizing that he has to go. page five...
Jon Bogdanove did some fine work at each end of his run on Superman, but during this mid-point, his Superman looks like a caveman on steroids covered in all sorts of spirals while Denis Rodier also goes for a 'lines all over peoples faces" scratchy look despite being an impressive artist at all other points of his career. Everything just go so extreme and nineties here that it almost seems as if those involved are going against their own instincts and doing what they should realise doesn't work, writers and artists alike.
Still for ten dollars, I guess I can justify it.
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 20, 2019 5:17:23 GMT -5
All the over rendering of the comic figures might have been a reaction to the Image guy’s popularity. Herb Trimpe also copies their style during his short run on FF Unlimited.
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Post by dbutler69 on Apr 20, 2019 8:51:47 GMT -5
I read Karate Kid #12-13. I was skeptical with Bob Rozakis taking over the writing duties, as well as a new penciller and inker, but I'd say these were among the better issues of the series. A nice little two-parter.
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Post by dbutler69 on Apr 22, 2019 8:06:46 GMT -5
I finished up the Karate Kid series which I'd been slowly reading over the past couple of months. Overall, the series was meh. Too many lame villains and the Ric Estrada/Joe Staton art was not to my liking. Too cartoony. The series did change direction at #12 with a whole new creative team and while that helped, it wasn't enough. I also read this treasure size Legion of Super-Heroes comic with the wedding of Lightning Lad and Saturn Girl! Overall, it was very enjoyable and I remember the thrill of getting this as a kid. The story was very good (though not without its flaws) and the art was good, though certainly not one of Mike Grell's better LOSH efforts. I don't know if he was rushed to finish it, or if the fault lies with inker Vince Coletta, or what. Anyway, still a very good an enjoyable issue as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by urrutiap on Apr 22, 2019 12:07:04 GMT -5
Read some more of old Uncanny X Men.
Issues 220 to 223. Now Im reading issue 224
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 21:06:52 GMT -5
Just read the new translation of Barbarella done by Kelly Sue DeConnick for Humanoids a couple years back.... the hardcover includes the original Barbarella story from 1964 and The Wrath of the Minute Eater from 1968. I have been aware of Barbarella since high school when I saw the movie with Jane Fonda (and the press concerning the band Duran Duran mentioning the origin of their name from a character in the original), but had never read the original strips. I picked up this edition when I saw in on the new arrival rack at my lcs a while back, but it had languished in my to read pile for a while, but I finally got to start it last week (I read the original in one sitting, then took a break before reading Wrath, which I had to break up into two reading sessions due to time constraints). After having read them, I am still not quite sure what to think of them. They felt a bit disjointed, but I think that is a product of the original format they were printed in, serialized a couple pages at a time in magazines with each installment either needing to standalone or catch up the readers to get them up to speed, so some bits felt like they jumped around and others felt a tad repetitive. I am not sure how much of that is Jean-Claude Forest's script and how much DeConnick's translation, but I have read other stuff she has translated and it was quite good, so I suspect it lies with the source material. Forest's art is another issue. It's quite stylized, and I like it. He is a very good illustrator (and as a writer he has a lot of inventive ideas and good comedic sense), but his visual storytelling for me wasn't a strength.There wasn't a lot of narrative sense from the art on the page, and the panel to panel and page to page flow did not tell a coherent story without the text. Panels jumped, page transitions were jarring, and there just wasn't a narrative or visual flow to it, or at least not one that was recognizable to my American eyes. It ultimately falls into the "more interesting than good" category for me. Happy to have read it, as it is a touchstone work, but not sure I would revisit it often for a pleasurable read (despite all the disrobing going on). It has made me curious though to revisit the film, which I haven't seen since high school and only vaguely remember, to compare the two. -M
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Apr 23, 2019 5:08:19 GMT -5
It ultimately falls into the "more interesting than good" category for me. Happy to have read it, as it is a touchstone work, but not sure I would revisit it often for a pleasurable read (despite all the disrobing going on). It has made me curious though to revisit the film, which I haven't seen since high school and only vaguely remember, to compare the two. Yeah, "more interesting than good" is how I've always felt about the Barbarella strips. I have the 1968 reprint of the original comic storyline that was translated by Richard Seaver, and put out to capitalise on the success of the film. I agree that Jean-Claude Forest's artwork, while pleasing to the eye, is hardly what I'd call "great comics". The story too is a bit of a disjointed slog, despite its obvious inventiveness and keen sense of exotic sci-fi and playful sexuality. There's little in the way of any over-arching plot either, as I recall it: just a series of episodic encounters in which Barbarella battles various alien threats, meets a stream of handsome men, and frequently loses items of clothing. Basically, I much prefer to enjoy Barbarella as the 1868 film, rather than as a comic strip. The film takes the already pretty strange comic and spikes it with a healthy dose of LSD. The result is a trashy, groovy, psychedelic masterpiece which -- even though it takes some liberties with the source material, while retaining characters, technology, certain situations, and even pieces of dialogue from the comic -- gives Forest's sexually liberated heroine and slightly absurd sci-fi setting a mind-altering, technicolor veneer, while charging it with the playful eroticism of the late '60s sexual revolution. Do yourself a favour and watch it again soon.
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