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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 29, 2015 6:37:36 GMT -5
I came in late in Davids Hulk run. I remember him having the best artists to work with but the writing was just okay. Byrnes FF was good, but anyone who says it was better than the Lee/Kirby run was probably too young to have read it first run. I feel the same way when people say that Simonsons run was better than the Lee/Kirby Thor. No it wasn't. You're right as far as Byrne on FF. You're wrong as far as Simonson's Thor. I love the Kirby Thor-- such unrestrained imagination-- but Walt was the first creator to truly incorporate the Marvel Thor with the mythic Thor. Kirby's Thor was great comics, but Simonson's Thor was new Eddas. Thor was just an everyday comic character until Walt got ahold of him, waking the Mangog notwithstanding. I Say Thee Nay!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 7:36:27 GMT -5
Lee's Silver Surfer can get bad any issue now so that I can save money on trying to track down all the MMWs. *sigh* But it just keeps getting better. Oh don't worry. It's gonna get worse. Promise. Oh, no. Lee's SS run get worse? When?
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 29, 2015 8:57:29 GMT -5
Oh don't worry. It's gonna get worse. Promise. Oh, no. Lee's SS run get worse? When? As of #14, when it becomes "Silver Surfer Team-Up." Cei-U! I summon the tedium!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 9:36:14 GMT -5
Oh, no. Lee's SS run get worse? When? As of #14, when it becomes "Silver Surfer Team-Up." Cei-U! I summon the tedium! Ugh. I am an issue or two away from #14.
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Post by starscape on Jan 29, 2015 12:59:47 GMT -5
Well,it might get worse but it's still better than 99.9% of comics out there. The Human Torch issue is terrific for a start.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 29, 2015 19:53:52 GMT -5
Honestly, SS went downhill for me as soon as it stopped being double sized. I barely remember anything that happened after the Ghost Pirate issue. (Yaaaay! Ghost Pirate!) Was the Human Torch in it? I remember Spider-man, and Nick Fury was there for some reason, and I think the Inhumans....
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Post by fanboystranger on Jan 29, 2015 23:31:31 GMT -5
You're right as far as Byrne on FF. You're wrong as far as Simonson's Thor. I love the Kirby Thor-- such unrestrained imagination-- but Walt was the first creator to truly incorporate the Marvel Thor with the mythic Thor. Kirby's Thor was great comics, but Simonson's Thor was new Eddas. Thor was just an everyday comic character until Walt got ahold of him, waking the Mangog notwithstanding. I Say Thee Nay! Verily, thou art allowed to have thy own opinion.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 30, 2015 18:11:16 GMT -5
So, I finished the Invaders (the Roy Thomas stuff) today... they're more, well, super hero-y, than I thought they'd be. Not that that's bad, but just surprising.
Also, I LOVED Miss America... most female characters are 'spunky'... she's actually just a regular hero... I'm not sure if I can explain the difference exactly (or if it just exists in my head) but there is one, trust me. I haven't read any of her Golden Age stuff, is it good? Or is it in the void where it hasn't been reprinted?'
I really didn't love the 'Kid Commandos'. While I appreciate Roy Thomas quite a bit, why make his own group.. why not just use the Young Allies? The excuse in the letter column was that 'Whitewash Jones was too racist'. I don't know anything about it (haven't got that Masterworks yet), but I assume he was a black guy, and I can see that, but just don't use the name... call him 'Ethan Jones' and call it a day. Toss in your own characters even, if you can make it work (and surely he could). That's a much smaller swap in continuity (which we all know Mr. Thomas loves) than inserting ANOTHER whole team. At least the Liberty Legion was existing heroes, and could imagine their existance as homefront defenders was classified.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jan 30, 2015 19:10:38 GMT -5
why not just use the Young Allies? The excuse in the letter column was that 'Whitewash Jones was too racist'. I don't know anything about it (haven't got that Masterworks yet), but I assume he was a black guy, and I can see that, but just don't use the name... call him 'Ethan Jones' and call it a day. Yeah, so...
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 30, 2015 19:26:32 GMT -5
why not just use the Young Allies? The excuse in the letter column was that 'Whitewash Jones was too racist'. I don't know anything about it (haven't got that Masterworks yet), but I assume he was a black guy, and I can see that, but just don't use the name... call him 'Ethan Jones' and call it a day. Yeah, so... Whitewash Jones was killed by the police later that day. He refused to put down the harmonica. The police had no other choice.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jan 30, 2015 19:41:08 GMT -5
They did eventually try and retroactively address and fix this overt racism. Marvel published a 70th anniversary Young Allies one-shot, and it explains that "Whitewash" was a fictionalized version of the real Young Allies, published by the in-universe version of Marvel Comics. The real character - Washington Carver Jones - took the authorities to task for their racist rendition of him:
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 30, 2015 20:03:31 GMT -5
See, there you are... Roy could have done somethin' like that easy enough.. and that has a benefit of pointing out and addressing it, instead of pretending it didn't happen (I greatly prefer the latter). Granted, that is REALLY REALLY bad, but still, it happened.
Or, even if they just proceeded with the character in a decent fashion, that could have also worked... it's not like, even in 1980, kids were going to go find and read 40 year old golden age comics and either be horrified, or think those are great ideas.
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Post by spoon on Jan 31, 2015 0:14:21 GMT -5
Oh don't worry. It's gonna get worse. Promise. Oh, no. Lee's SS run get worse? When? In my opinion, Lee's SS run gets bad early on. It's one of those runs that fell short of my expectations. I can't into the supposed lofty story of the Surfer as a Christ and humanity as disappointingly close-minded. The Silver Surfer of that era is too whiny for me. If I recall correctly, there are certainly situations where he bemoans the distrust of humanity . . . when that distrust is totally justified. Like I think there was some illusion that made it seem like the Surfer was attacking innocent people. Don't remember exactly what it was, but I remember thinking that Surfer felt persecuted by people who were behaving rationally under the circumstances. I've been reading the 1980s Blue Beetle series. I read Secret Origins #2 (which has the origins of both Dan Garrett and Ted Kord by Wein & Kane). I read the first seven issues of BB's own series by Wein & Paris Cullins. The covers are better than the interior art. I think the supporting cast could stand to be developed a little more. But it seems like Len Wein probably put a lot of planning into the series and it's an interesting undertaking. One of my brothers collected the series at the time, so I read a bunch of issues back then. I can see that Wein was working in plot threads that get paid off far ahead. It's also fascinating how Wein works to integrate a hero who was established in another universe (although it's not like the Ted Kord Blue Beetle had a lot of stories published by Charlton) into the new post-Crisis Earth. Wein starts with the idea that Kord had a career as the Blue Beetle, retired, and has now unretired - although he's depicted as a still a young guy. In other words, the Charlton stories apparently still happened in some form or another. I guess it's a softer reboot, although by knowledge of pre-Crisis Blue Beetle is so-so. It's appropriate that the first guest star is another Charlton hero being integrated into the post-Crisis world: the Question.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 31, 2015 5:43:03 GMT -5
The only Lee Thor that I have read was when Silver Surfer battled him. It was great. But I think I could grow tired of the speech. I was a sucker for the Shakesperian speech. I have to say that the olde worlde, quasi-Shakespearean mode of speech that Stan Lee and others wrote for Thor does annoy me mildly and is one of the chief reasons that I have little or no interest in reading the character's books. It's not a total deal breaker or anything though. For instance, I have no problem with Thor as guest star or even his appearances in early issues of The Avengers, but it does put me off his own book. Does Thor still talk like this in his modern comic appearances? I got that new Star Wars omnibus for my birthday and read the first two issues tonight. I've still not seen the movies, so I'm not sure how faithful it is, but other than the art in that first issue I'm absolutely loving it. I do find it odd that despite re-coloring they kept Luke's saber pink. Although when Obi pulls his it's also pink, so maybe they're all pink in the comics? I'm sure I don't need to plug this, but don't forget my Star Wars at Marvel (1977-1986) thread. Regarding the re-colouring, actually there's been some confusion -- not least on my part. I learnt last week that the new Marvel omnibus uses very faithful colouroing to the original comics, which I guess is why the lightsabers are still pink in those early issues. The first six issues that adapt the movie are getting re-released in single comic book form in March and those are the ones that have the super-duper computer re-colouring.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 31, 2015 6:07:07 GMT -5
I was a sucker for the Shakesperian speech. I have to say that the olde worlde, quasi-Shakespearean mode of speech that Stan Lee and others wrote for Thor does annoy me mildly and is one of the chief reasons that I have little or no interest in reading the character's books. It's not a total deal breaker or anything though. For instance, I have no problem with Thor as guest star or even his appearances in early issues of The Avengers, but it does put me off his own book. Does Thor still talk like this in his modern comic appearances? I remember Marvel taking away the Thees and Thous a few years ago. He still talks different than the rest of the other characters but they toned it down.
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