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Post by spoon on Apr 28, 2024 19:38:51 GMT -5
So, I recently read X-Men issues #96–103 for the first time. These issues find Chris Claremont and Dave Cockrum really finding their feet with the new X-Men. Issue #96 opens with the team mourning their fallen comrade Thunderbird, with Cyclops in particular feeling very guilty about his death. This issue also sees the arrival of the bonny lass Moira MacTaggert and almost immediately a burgeoning romance between her and Banshee is evident – though Professor Xavier also seems romantically interested in her. The name "Moira MacTaggert" really rings a bell with me, though I'm not sure why. I strongly suspect that she must eventually become a superhero and I hope someone reading this will be able to let me know. Moira MacTaggert rings a bell because you've read something with her before. You mentioned months back that you read a Dark Phoenix Saga HC. She's in the first few pages of Uncanny X-Men #129. She first appears in #96, but she becomes an off-and-on recurring character over the years. There's more to her than her initial appearances you've read here, but I don't want to spoil things. Thus begins Claremont's long tradition of building up to future stories in subplots, although many will be drawn out longer than the Steven Lang story. The reason Cyclops remarks with shock that he's Eric the Red is because it's a disguise he used in a Silver Age story. If you've had your fill of Eric the Red, I have to break it to you that you're not done with him. That probably won't be a surprise since he brainwashed Havok and Polaris. The ethics of the image inducer will be revisited in the future. It's also the subject in one of the backup stories in a Classic X-Men, a series that reprinted X-Men from Giant-Size X-Men #1 through Uncanny X-Men #206 (skipping over a handful of issues), with new backup stories. Owning a castle is also not terribly consistent with Banshee being portrayed as more of a working class guy. Yeah, there's lack of clarity for a while about the extent of Phoenix's powers. I think this story is the weakest of Cockrum's first run. But fun fact: one of the leprechauns is the first character to refer to Wolverine as Logan.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Apr 28, 2024 19:59:05 GMT -5
So, I recently read X-Men issues #96–103 for the first time. These issues find Chris Claremont and Dave Cockrum really finding their feet with the new X-Men. Issue #96 opens with the team mourning their fallen comrade Thunderbird, with Cyclops in particular feeling very guilty about his death. This issue also sees the arrival of the bonny lass Moira MacTaggert and almost immediately a burgeoning romance between her and Banshee is evident – though Professor Xavier also seems romantically interested in her. The name "Moira MacTaggert" really rings a bell with me, though I'm not sure why. I strongly suspect that she must eventually become a superhero and I hope someone reading this will be able to let me know. Moira MacTaggert rings a bell because you've read something with her before. You mentioned months back that you read a Dark Phoenix Saga HC. She's in the first few pages of Uncanny X-Men #129. Ahh...right, that must be it. I don't really recall her from that arc but since she's in it, that must be why the name rings a bell. The ethics of the image inducer will be revisited in the future. It's also the subject in one of the backup stories in a Classic X-Men, a series that reprinted X-Men from Giant-Size X-Men #1 through Uncanny X-Men #206 (skipping over a handful of issues), with new backup stories. Ah, I see. Good to know that it wasn't just me that felt it was kind of ethically problematic or not quite in keeping with what the X-Men stand for. Owning a castle is also not terribly consistent with Banshee being portrayed as more of a working class guy. Yeah, that's a very good point. Marvel had a long tradition of having folks from the British Isles reside either in castles or gothic mansion by this point and dating right back to the Silver Age. It's a recurring Marvel trope of that era which always me roll my eyes and chuckle whenever I see it. But fun fact: one of the leprechauns is the first character to refer to Wolverine as Logan. Does that happen in these issues? Or a bit later? I don't recall reading that, but maybe I did and just failed to register that it was the first time he had been referred to as Logan?
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Post by spoon on Apr 28, 2024 20:24:11 GMT -5
Moira MacTaggert rings a bell because you've read something with her before. You mentioned months back that you read a Dark Phoenix Saga HC. She's in the first few pages of Uncanny X-Men #129. Ahh...right, that must be it. I don't really recall her from that arc but since she's in it, that must be why the name rings a bell. She's really just in #129, because the first few pages are in the aftermath of the previous arc. She does appear in a few brief interludes of a page here and there during the Dark Phoenix Saga, but that's about it. It may not have registered, because it probably seem a random, unmemorable thing detached from the context of previous plotlines. But fun fact: one of the leprechauns is the first character to refer to Wolverine as Logan. It's toward the end of #103, after Colossus tosses Wolverine too the opposite side of the castle. One of the leprechauns talks to Wolverine and calls him "Mr. Logan" much to his surprise.
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Post by Chris on Apr 29, 2024 19:20:41 GMT -5
Action Comics #506 The Children's Exodus From Earth! by Cary Bates and Curt Swan This is part two conclusion about a Kryptonian robot named Jorlan arriving on Earth with the intent on stealing the children of Earth away. And yes since Jorlan is Kryptonian he is now a super-robot and causing Superman all sorts of grief. It turns out that Jorlan was the creation of a Kryptonian scientist named Orn-Zu who had reached the same conclusion about the destruction of Krpyton as Jor-El. He was disregarded about his predictions too and suffering under the space travel ban by the Science Council, Orn Zu decided to save the children of Krypton by creating Jorlan who would whisk them away to safety among the stars. But he was discovered, Jorlan was banished and Orn Zu sentenced to the Phantom Zone. Now Jorlan has arrived on Earth, his programming substituting the children of Earth for those of Krypton. How can Superman stop him and save the children? I read this one as a kid. I thought it was great that Orn-zu also predicted Krypton's doom, but his prediction was completely wrong. In keeping with that, his method of helping Superman - while also well-intentioned - was not exactly the best idea. but the ultimate solution comes when Superman remembers where and when he has seen Jorlan before now. So time travel and Superboy help save the day. I have to give credit to writer Cary Bates.* He wrote a story that managed to weaponize time travel... not by using time travel as a tool to change history or attack someone in the past or whatever, but weaponized the actual time travel itself. That's a feat. In addition, the month before this issue of Action Comics, an issue of Flash also written by Bates had time travel itself used as a lethal weapon. Twice. Seriously, that should get some kind of award or something. * I realize it's possible that the idea could have originated with Action Comics editor Julius Schwartz or possibly his assistant E. Nelson Bridwell. But it seems like such a Bates-ian twist, and over in Flash, Bates was edited by Ross Andru - whatever his considerable talents as an artist or an editor, that's not really his kind of idea. So I'm thinking it's Bates. Now that I've written that, someone will post a link to an older story using something similar.
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Post by driver1980 on Apr 30, 2024 6:53:00 GMT -5
I reread this last night: I’m not going to get into the history of the series (check out a great thread on the series, posted by codystarbuck). I’m gonna presume a knowledge of the series. Secret agent Alice Drake gets shipwrecked on the shores of the Village, twenty years after the events of the TV show’s final episode. An aged Number Six is there, being rather cryptic and sporting a beard. Number Two (the Leo McKern version) is also there. Back in London, an intelligence agency - unnamed - has its own concerns about the Village. This is a good story, but it doesn’t answer any more questions than “Fall Out” - the show’s final episode - did, although, well, spoilers ahead. Still here? One more chance. Check out the rocket. And when asked who Number One may be, Number Six replies, “Does the presence of Number Two require the existence of Number One?” So it is at least thought-provoking. As the show was. I own the series on Blu-ray, and even today, I’m wondering about the Village, Number One, the “general” mentioned in the episode “The Schizoid Man”, etc. And while the Village is out there (near to Morocco, wasn’t it?) in the episode “Many Happy Returns”, “Fall Out” shows a Village not too far from London. The show wasn’t meant to provide answers, I guess. And that’s good (although it can be frustrating - in a good way). The fact we’re still talking about numerous aspects is rewarding, from who Number One was, whether there was a Number One, whether Number Six was “testing the security” of the Village, etc. With all that in mind, I never expected or necessarily desired that this graphic novel would answer all my questions. Life itself doesn’t answer all questions. Overall, it’s a solid tale, and one I will return to again.
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Post by Marv-El on Apr 30, 2024 18:00:32 GMT -5
Ahh...right, that must be it. I don't really recall her from that arc but since she's in it, that must be why the name rings a bell. She's really just in #129, because the first few pages are in the aftermath of the previous arc. She does appear in a few brief interludes of a page here and there during the Dark Phoenix Saga, but that's about it. It may not have registered, because it probably seem a random, unmemorable thing detached from the context of previous plotlines. I've read a few fan theories over the years about how the Proteus arc from UXM #126-128 should be included with the Dark Phoenix saga as kind of a prelude. Part of that may in an effort to better clarify Moira for any first-time readers. In a way I can see it but I've never had a problem with it's absence from the main Phoenix story. I love this opening shot from #103. Let's face it, a demon being carried by leprechauns, who knew? The scenes where Kurt learns he's invisible in shadows is also fun. But #103 may also be the first instance of the 'fastball special'
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Post by Marv-El on Apr 30, 2024 18:07:29 GMT -5
Action Comics #506 The Children's Exodus From Earth! by Cary Bates and Curt Swan This is part two conclusion about a Kryptonian robot named Jorlan arriving on Earth with the intent on stealing the children of Earth away. And yes since Jorlan is Kryptonian he is now a super-robot and causing Superman all sorts of grief. It turns out that Jorlan was the creation of a Kryptonian scientist named Orn-Zu who had reached the same conclusion about the destruction of Krpyton as Jor-El. He was disregarded about his predictions too and suffering under the space travel ban by the Science Council, Orn Zu decided to save the children of Krypton by creating Jorlan who would whisk them away to safety among the stars. But he was discovered, Jorlan was banished and Orn Zu sentenced to the Phantom Zone. Now Jorlan has arrived on Earth, his programming substituting the children of Earth for those of Krypton. How can Superman stop him and save the children? I read this one as a kid. I thought it was great that Orn-zu also predicted Krypton's doom, but his prediction was completely wrong. In keeping with that, his method of helping Superman - while also well-intentioned - was not exactly the best idea. but the ultimate solution comes when Superman remembers where and when he has seen Jorlan before now. So time travel and Superboy help save the day. I have to give credit to writer Cary Bates.* He wrote a story that managed to weaponize time travel... not by using time travel as a tool to change history or attack someone in the past or whatever, but weaponized the actual time travel itself. That's a feat. In addition, the month before this issue of Action Comics, an issue of Flash also written by Bates had time travel itself used as a lethal weapon. Twice. Seriously, that should get some kind of award or something. * I realize it's possible that the idea could have originated with Action Comics editor Julius Schwartz or possibly his assistant E. Nelson Bridwell. But it seems like such a Bates-ian twist, and over in Flash, Bates was edited by Ross Andru - whatever his considerable talents as an artist or an editor, that's not really his kind of idea. So I'm thinking it's Bates. Now that I've written that, someone will post a link to an older story using something similar. I loved that twist, very inventive indeed. Instead of altering time in some fashion, it was more along the lines of closing a temporal loop. Superboy's expression & reaction was perfect. Then again IMHO, Bates is one of the most underrated DC writers ever. His run on Flash alone should garner more praise than it does. Every story of his that I've read in a Superman title so far has been equally imaginative and fun as well.
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Post by spoon on Apr 30, 2024 21:51:51 GMT -5
She's really just in #129, because the first few pages are in the aftermath of the previous arc. She does appear in a few brief interludes of a page here and there during the Dark Phoenix Saga, but that's about it. It may not have registered, because it probably seem a random, unmemorable thing detached from the context of previous plotlines. I've read a few fan theories over the years about how the Proteus arc from UXM #126-128 should be included with the Dark Phoenix saga as kind of a prelude. Part of that may in an effort to better clarify Moira for any first-time readers. In a way I can see it but I've never had a problem with it's absence from the main Phoenix story. Aside from that, we get bits of Mastermind's plot in the Proteus arc. So if someone wants to read the whole storyline, including when it was a subplot rather than the main plot, there's an argument to include #125-128. Also, #125 has a handy summary of Phoenix's backstory in just a couple pages. On the other hand, the fact that the Dark Phoenix content is a subplot rather than the main plot in the Proteus arc are a good reason to use that as a dividing line. There's actually an instance of the Fastball Special in #100 where Wolverine call it by its name.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on May 1, 2024 10:51:58 GMT -5
I recently picked up issues #19, #20 and #22 of Doctor Strange from 1976 and '77, and I know that berkley was kinda interested in what I thought of them. These comics come immediately after the Steve Englehart run, with Marv Wolfman coming on board to take over the writing. The switchover happens right in the middle of a Bicentennial-themed "Occult Tour of the History of America" that Strange and Clea had embarked on in issue #17. These comics really feel like an abrupt change of pace. For a kick off, the dialogue and plotting is immediately less philosophical than Englehart's stuff and much more in the tradition of regular super-heroing – Strange even socks the villain of the piece, Xander, in the mouth at one point! Wolfman is also set on reverting all the changes to the character and his continuity that Englehart wrought. So, for example, Strange is stripped of his title Sorcerer Supreme and reverts to being simply the Master of the Mystic Arts, with an attendant depowering, and the destruction and remaking of the Earth in semi-recent issues (and that weird romance between Clea and Benjamin Franklin!!) is shown to be nothing more than an illusion or test created by the evil magician Stygyro. So, in short, a lot of the major changes to the character that occurred during Englehart's run are wiped away. I'm not sure how I feel about this. These comics do feel much more like "business as usual" in terms of how a Doctor Strange comic should probably be. But Englehart's run was really interesting from a philosophical standpoint and nicely psychedelic too. But that was probably something of a narrative dead end, in terms of continuing in that direction for years. The status quo probably did need to be restored, I guess. I quite liked Rudy Nebres' art on issues #20 and #22, though it's not a patch on the Gene Colan/Tom Palmer art of Englehart's tenure on the comic. Issue #19 is drawn by Alfredo Alcala, who I know from his brief time on the Star Wars newspaper strip in 1980. His art is rather good, generally speaking, though sometimes looks a bit muddled and not terribly clear. Overall, these were pretty enjoyable Doctor Strange comics. They take the lead character back to his core characterisation and appeal, but I do kinda miss the weird and slightly more intellectual bent of the Englehart run.
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Post by Cei-U! on May 1, 2024 15:36:41 GMT -5
I was absolutely livid over the disrespect Wolfman showed to Englehart's run at the time. It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth and his remains my least favorite run on the book. It isn't worth reading again (in my opinion, natch) until Roger Stern takes over as writer (though there's a lot of good art between Englehart and Stern).
Cei-U! I summon the sorcerous slump!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 1, 2024 15:49:15 GMT -5
I was absolutely livid over the disrespect Wolfman showed to Englehart's run at the time. It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth and his remains my least favorite run on the book. It isn't worth reading again (in my opinion, natch) until Roger Stern takes over as writer (though there's a lot of good art between Englehart and Stern). Cei-U! I summon the sorcerous slump! That's because with very limited exceptions, mostly Tomb of Dracula, Wolfman isn't a very good writer.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on May 1, 2024 18:10:37 GMT -5
That's because with very limited exceptions, mostly Tomb of Dracula, Wolfman isn't a very good writer. I generally enjoy his work, but I agree that he's one of those journeyman writers, rather than somebody who makes me think "wow, this is brilliant." I quite like his run on Amazing Spider-Man in the late '70s and early '80s though, although it isn't a must-read run IMHO.
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Post by Batflunkie on May 1, 2024 21:14:08 GMT -5
That's because with very limited exceptions, mostly Tomb of Dracula, Wolfman isn't a very good writer. I generally enjoy his work, but I agree that he's one of those journeyman writers, rather than somebody who makes me think "wow, this is brilliant." I quite like his run on Amazing Spider-Man in the late '70s and early '80s though, although it isn't a must-read run IMHO. I remember his tenure on Thor after Conway, it felt kind of like a re-introduction to the character and a little bit on the bland side
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Post by Cei-U! on May 2, 2024 2:56:19 GMT -5
I generally enjoy his work, but I agree that he's one of those journeyman writers, rather than somebody who makes me think "wow, this is brilliant." I quite like his run on Amazing Spider-Man in the late '70s and early '80s though, although it isn't a must-read run IMHO. I remember his tenure on Thor after Conway, it felt kind of like a re-introduction to the character and a little bit on the bland side Wolfman never wrote Thor. You're thinking of Len Wein.
Cei-U! I summon the credit where credit is due!
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Post by Icctrombone on May 2, 2024 5:03:22 GMT -5
I was absolutely livid over the disrespect Wolfman showed to Englehart's run at the time. It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth and his remains my least favorite run on the book. It isn't worth reading again (in my opinion, natch) until Roger Stern takes over as writer (though there's a lot of good art between Englehart and Stern). Cei-U! I summon the sorcerous slump! That's because with very limited exceptions, mostly Tomb of Dracula, Wolfman isn't a very good writer. I count Wolfman as one of my top 10 favorite writers. His Fantastic Four run had a stellar Galactus vs. Sphinx that was great. Throw in Night force, New Teen Titans and his Superman stuff, I'll just have to disagree with this statement.
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