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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Mar 30, 2015 18:32:29 GMT -5
For a reference for those who want to follow along, in the part I just read, a hooded figure whose identity I never did figure out was sneaking around the Apocalypse complex and looking at files and trying to figure out if he or she was destined to be one of Apocalypse's Chosen. So there was a bunch of pin-ups with text boxes giving Apocalypse's opinion on Magneto, Rogue, Cyclops, etc. That is Age of Apocalypse: The Choosen #1 ... Completely unnecessarily to grasping the story. A for sure poke at getting more money from people like me. :-) It's like one of those "secret files" comics that gives up a look at, whether they be servents of not of Apocalypse, who he feels is suitable for survival. If I were to say the path of least resistance to still get the story would be both the Astonishing X-Men and Amazing X-Men minis along with the Alpha and Omega bookends. Most ever other reference you need to know from the other issues are there. And I can't do much for you on the art. 90s is were I started so it doesn't all look horrible to me. As X-Men go, the oldest story I own is #160 or so. The Brood story you mentioned. I have sporadic clusters of issues up AoA. I followed Uncanny and Vol 2 for 2-3 years after AoA but it was habit, as most of it was a mess. I bailed before Onslaught. Since then I bought X-treme and the Salvador Larroca issues of Uncanny, but mostly for his art. I have one space saga story probably 5-8 or so years ago a friend I traded some issues with who thought I'd like it but it didn't wow me. There was some super powered a$$hole destroying stuff and the X-Men and Shiar teamed up if I remember right. The story title escapes me. But that's the gist of my X-Men reading and I'm pretty fine with keeping it that way. Even the 10th anniversary AoA Vol 2 wasn't as good as the original and was really unneeded. Even my nostalgia couldn't cloud that.
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Post by Hoosier X on Mar 31, 2015 15:25:31 GMT -5
I'm still working my way through Age of Apocalypse, and I thought it was only fair to make a comment because its getting better. A little.
I read Generation Next (I think it's #1) last night and I now have figured out a story that I can actually follow. Also, the art is much much better than anything I've seen so far. I read the whole issue without checking ahead to see how many pages until the issue was over!
I like Husk. I've heard of her (I think she's the one that had sex with Angel in the air in plain sight of her parents) but this is the first time I've seen her in a comic. I'm not so keen on Mondo. But I like Know-It-All. It took me a minute to realize that that's her codename and not just a nickname.
It was nice to see Colossus and Kitty again. I don't think I've enjoyed a comic with them since ... 1985? Maybe longer. (Except I really hate Kitty's costume.)
But I really hate Chamber! Gah! He's terrible! He's got an accent that I'm guessing is Cockney, and the writer lays it on real thick! (He should have an accent contest with Gambit! No! I take that back!) This is not how you write an accent. You suggest the accent with a few carefully picked words and let the reader fill it in.
It doesn't help a bit that Chamber narrates the first half of the story. (Yes, Chamber, we get it, you're the charming half-educated streetwise Cockney rogue who says "Luv" a lot. That's nice. Now please go and DIE!)
Also, his codename is stupid.
But things are picking up. I liked the last few pages well enough. I thought it was pretty cool when they were checking the list on the status of all mutants with time travel capability (because they are going to travel in time and change the Apocalypse future) and they got to ... Illyana! OK! Now we got a plot!
And I looked ahead and the art in the next chapter looks pretty decent. OH! And there's Banshee! He got sidelined early on when I was reading X-Men in the 1970s and I missed him for years!
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Post by berkley on Mar 31, 2015 18:05:52 GMT -5
Last night, I read Fantastic Four #71 (in The Essential Fantastic Four, Volume 4), the last chapter in a four-part epic featuring the Mad Thinker. I've read it before but it's been a very long time and it strikes me that this may very well be the best story that the Mad Thinker ever appeared in. (Although, the Super-Villain War in Iron Man in the 1970s (app. #68 to #81) would be a very close second.) It brings back memories of the mid- to late 1970s when I was reading the regular Fantastic Four series (my first issue was #165) at the same time I was reading the FF reprints in Marvel's Greatest Comics. I don't remember exactly what my first issue of MGC was, but between getting it at the newsstand every chance and picking up back issues at used-book stores, I had most of the issues from this very Mad Thinker multi-part story up to the storyline (from FF #90 to #92, I think) where the Thing was kidnapped by Skrulls and taken to a gangster planet based on 1920s Chicago with the added attraction of gladiatorial combat. I had seen a few reprints of very old Fantastic Four issues before, but the MGC reprints was the first time I had ever read a long run of old FF issues, and it was great! I especially remember that issue where Crystal unleashed her power on the Wizard and clobbered him! (And I am very much looking forward to reading that issue in the Essential FF volume. It's so tempting to skip ahead!) So, yeah, it's great to be working my way through these issues, some of them for the third time! I was reading the Mad Thinker storyline very carefully, going very slowly. It looks familiar, as it should! But I don't remember thinking it was all that great. But this time, I'm admiring how patient the storytelling is! The villain is a mystery at first, masquerading as a scientist who is helping to cure Ben. The Thinker's plan is multi-faceted as he tries to have back-ups and to cope with the unexpected. Ben goes insane because of the Thinker's machinations and tries to kill everybody! (Not yet an overworked FF trope. Well ... not TOO overworked as yet.) And I love that bit with the Thinker's super-android! It knocks Ben, Reed and Johnny unconscious, leaving Sue - just revealed to be pregnant - to face the super-android ALONE! Gah! I can't stand it! Too suspenseful! Yeah. Pretty awesome. I've long considered FF #36 to #60 to be the FF's best run, but I'm now reminded how great it was past that point and I'm thinking of extending it, based on how much I like the rest of The Essential FF, Volume 4. These are some of the first FF issues I can remember reading as a kid so it's hard for me to judge them objectively. I don't recall many details, but I remember finding that predicament with the super=android very dramatic; and the story with Crystal and the Wizard is probably one of the reasons she became my favourite character of the series.
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 1, 2015 13:16:18 GMT -5
I read a little more "Age of Apocalypse" and it's not a chore to read anymore. I'm still mystified that anybody thinks this is a great comics saga. (I guess I didn't read enough super-hero comics in the 1990s to appreciate it. I've heard a phrase - '90s good - for stories that aren't really very good but were classics by the standards of the 1990s. Is Age of Apocalypse '90s good?)
I just read "Gambit and the X-Ternals" and it was OK, but it reminded me why I never really got back into the X-Men after the mid-1980s. I used to go through periods where I would walk by the newsstand and start looking through comics I hadn't read for a while, and sometimes I would get interested in a comic I used to love but hadn't read for a while. I read Peter David's Hulk for a while, for example, when he was hanging out with the Pantheon. (Great art. But whenever I try to read those issues again, I get real bored real fast.) And I read Thor for a while, when Eric Masterson was Thor and it was drawn by Ron Frenz. (Great run! I still read those every once in a while.)
But whenever I picked up X-Men comics, I couldn't figure out what was going on. Wolverine was everywhere! And there were so many characters! It was like the Legion of Super-heroes! (But much worse.) There was Jubilee and Psylocke and Cable and Forge and so on and etc.
And then there was Gambit. Sacre bleu! Wow, do I hate Gambit. Almost as much as I hate Lobo or Deathstroke. His accent and his powers and his costume and his hair and that smug look on his stupid fat face. Any panel with Gambit where he isn't getting punched in his stupid, fat, smug face is a waste of a panel with Gambit.
Fortunately he doesn't seem to be in Age of Apocalypse all that much, even in this issue where he's the leader of the group. And I kind of like Jubilee and Sunspot.
I don't think I'll ever be a fan of Gambit. But he doesn't have a central role in Age of Apocalypse so I think I can read it and enjoy it without letting Gambit bother me too much.
(Hopefully there isn't an issue where the whole thing is Gambit and Chamber discussing who is a better "charming rogue" and which one is more gangsta and which one has the more pretentious speech impediment. Written by Jeph Loeb. Art by Rob Liefeld.)
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Post by dbutler69 on Apr 1, 2015 13:26:33 GMT -5
Last night, I read Fantastic Four #71 (in The Essential Fantastic Four, Volume 4), the last chapter in a four-part epic featuring the Mad Thinker. I've read it before but it's been a very long time and it strikes me that this may very well be the best story that the Mad Thinker ever appeared in. (Although, the Super-Villain War in Iron Man in the 1970s (app. #68 to #81) would be a very close second.) It brings back memories of the mid- to late 1970s when I was reading the regular Fantastic Four series (my first issue was #165) at the same time I was reading the FF reprints in Marvel's Greatest Comics. I don't remember exactly what my first issue of MGC was, but between getting it at the newsstand every chance and picking up back issues at used-book stores, I had most of the issues from this very Mad Thinker multi-part story up to the storyline (from FF #90 to #92, I think) where the Thing was kidnapped by Skrulls and taken to a gangster planet based on 1920s Chicago with the added attraction of gladiatorial combat. I had seen a few reprints of very old Fantastic Four issues before, but the MGC reprints was the first time I had ever read a long run of old FF issues, and it was great! I especially remember that issue where Crystal unleashed her power on the Wizard and clobbered him! (And I am very much looking forward to reading that issue in the Essential FF volume. It's so tempting to skip ahead!) So, yeah, it's great to be working my way through these issues, some of them for the third time! I was reading the Mad Thinker storyline very carefully, going very slowly. It looks familiar, as it should! But I don't remember thinking it was all that great. But this time, I'm admiring how patient the storytelling is! The villain is a mystery at first, masquerading as a scientist who is helping to cure Ben. The Thinker's plan is multi-faceted as he tries to have back-ups and to cope with the unexpected. Ben goes insane because of the Thinker's machinations and tries to kill everybody! (Not yet an overworked FF trope. Well ... not TOO overworked as yet.) And I love that bit with the Thinker's super-android! It knocks Ben, Reed and Johnny unconscious, leaving Sue - just revealed to be pregnant - to face the super-android ALONE! Gah! I can't stand it! Too suspenseful! Yeah. Pretty awesome. I've long considered FF #36 to #60 to be the FF's best run, but I'm now reminded how great it was past that point and I'm thinking of extending it, based on how much I like the rest of The Essential FF, Volume 4. You're tempting me to go get the next issue in Marvel Masterworks!
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Post by dupersuper on Apr 1, 2015 19:51:53 GMT -5
I read a little more "Age of Apocalypse" and it's not a chore to read anymore. I'm still mystified that anybody thinks this is a great comics saga. (I guess I didn't read enough super-hero comics in the 1990s to appreciate it. I've heard a phrase - '90s good - for stories that aren't really very good but were classics by the standards of the 1990s. Is Age of Apocalypse '90s good?) 90's good is just normal good (triangle era Supes, Morrison JLA/Animal Man, Waid Flash, Jones GL, Busiek/Perez Avengers, Stuck Rubber Baby, Kingdom Come...). I had the same issue reading through AoA, which I found surprising as Waid, Ellis, etc. wrote some issues. I chalked it up to lack of emotional investment in most of the characters (I've never been a huge X-Men reader) making the alternate timeline less shocking, and the godawful art.
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Post by wickedmountain on Apr 1, 2015 22:17:24 GMT -5
Last night, I read Fantastic Four #71 (in The Essential Fantastic Four, Volume 4), the last chapter in a four-part epic featuring the Mad Thinker. I've read it before but it's been a very long time and it strikes me that this may very well be the best story that the Mad Thinker ever appeared in. (Although, the Super-Villain War in Iron Man in the 1970s (app. #68 to #81) would be a very close second.) It brings back memories of the mid- to late 1970s when I was reading the regular Fantastic Four series (my first issue was #165) at the same time I was reading the FF reprints in Marvel's Greatest Comics. I don't remember exactly what my first issue of MGC was, but between getting it at the newsstand every chance and picking up back issues at used-book stores, I had most of the issues from this very Mad Thinker multi-part story up to the storyline (from FF #90 to #92, I think) where the Thing was kidnapped by Skrulls and taken to a gangster planet based on 1920s Chicago with the added attraction of gladiatorial combat. I had seen a few reprints of very old Fantastic Four issues before, but the MGC reprints was the first time I had ever read a long run of old FF issues, and it was great! I especially remember that issue where Crystal unleashed her power on the Wizard and clobbered him! (And I am very much looking forward to reading that issue in the Essential FF volume. It's so tempting to skip ahead!) So, yeah, it's great to be working my way through these issues, some of them for the third time! I was reading the Mad Thinker storyline very carefully, going very slowly. It looks familiar, as it should! But I don't remember thinking it was all that great. But this time, I'm admiring how patient the storytelling is! The villain is a mystery at first, masquerading as a scientist who is helping to cure Ben. The Thinker's plan is multi-faceted as he tries to have back-ups and to cope with the unexpected. Ben goes insane because of the Thinker's machinations and tries to kill everybody! (Not yet an overworked FF trope. Well ... not TOO overworked as yet.) And I love that bit with the Thinker's super-android! It knocks Ben, Reed and Johnny unconscious, leaving Sue - just revealed to be pregnant - to face the super-android ALONE! Gah! I can't stand it! Too suspenseful! Yeah. Pretty awesome. I've long considered FF #36 to #60 to be the FF's best run, but I'm now reminded how great it was past that point and I'm thinking of extending it, based on how much I like the rest of The Essential FF, Volume 4. That Gangster Planet sounds cool
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 1, 2015 22:32:50 GMT -5
Last night, I read Fantastic Four #71 (in The Essential Fantastic Four, Volume 4), the last chapter in a four-part epic featuring the Mad Thinker. I've read it before but it's been a very long time and it strikes me that this may very well be the best story that the Mad Thinker ever appeared in. (Although, the Super-Villain War in Iron Man in the 1970s (app. #68 to #81) would be a very close second.) It brings back memories of the mid- to late 1970s when I was reading the regular Fantastic Four series (my first issue was #165) at the same time I was reading the FF reprints in Marvel's Greatest Comics. I don't remember exactly what my first issue of MGC was, but between getting it at the newsstand every chance and picking up back issues at used-book stores, I had most of the issues from this very Mad Thinker multi-part story up to the storyline (from FF #90 to #92, I think) where the Thing was kidnapped by Skrulls and taken to a gangster planet based on 1920s Chicago with the added attraction of gladiatorial combat. I had seen a few reprints of very old Fantastic Four issues before, but the MGC reprints was the first time I had ever read a long run of old FF issues, and it was great! I especially remember that issue where Crystal unleashed her power on the Wizard and clobbered him! (And I am very much looking forward to reading that issue in the Essential FF volume. It's so tempting to skip ahead!) So, yeah, it's great to be working my way through these issues, some of them for the third time! I was reading the Mad Thinker storyline very carefully, going very slowly. It looks familiar, as it should! But I don't remember thinking it was all that great. But this time, I'm admiring how patient the storytelling is! The villain is a mystery at first, masquerading as a scientist who is helping to cure Ben. The Thinker's plan is multi-faceted as he tries to have back-ups and to cope with the unexpected. Ben goes insane because of the Thinker's machinations and tries to kill everybody! (Not yet an overworked FF trope. Well ... not TOO overworked as yet.) And I love that bit with the Thinker's super-android! It knocks Ben, Reed and Johnny unconscious, leaving Sue - just revealed to be pregnant - to face the super-android ALONE! Gah! I can't stand it! Too suspenseful! Yeah. Pretty awesome. I've long considered FF #36 to #60 to be the FF's best run, but I'm now reminded how great it was past that point and I'm thinking of extending it, based on how much I like the rest of The Essential FF, Volume 4. That Gangster Planet sounds cool You might be able to get it in color pretty cheap if you can find the three issues of Marvel's Greatest Comics that reprinted it in the 1970s.
And, yeah, it's a lot of fun! It's not the Galactus trilogy but Lee and Kirby are still going strong here.
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Post by wickedmountain on Apr 2, 2015 14:47:29 GMT -5
That Gangster Planet sounds cool You might be able to get it in color pretty cheap if you can find the three issues of Marvel's Greatest Comics that reprinted it in the 1970s.
And, yeah, it's a lot of fun! It's not the Galactus trilogy but Lee and Kirby are still going strong here.
TY for the info
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 2, 2015 14:53:38 GMT -5
You might be able to get it in color pretty cheap if you can find the three issues of Marvel's Greatest Comics that reprinted it in the 1970s.
And, yeah, it's a lot of fun! It's not the Galactus trilogy but Lee and Kirby are still going strong here.
TY for the info It's Marvel's Greatest Comics #73 to #75.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 2, 2015 15:15:06 GMT -5
Although those are probably edited down to 18 pages from the original 20.
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 2, 2015 15:21:36 GMT -5
Although those are probably edited down to 18 pages from the original 20. True. When I read the original comics in the 1990s (twenty years after reading the reprints in MGC), I would be amazed by the full-page panels that I had never seen before that were now popping up in my old FF comics.
But in the 1970s, I never felt like I was missing anything. I had no idea there were pages missing.
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Post by wickedmountain on Apr 2, 2015 15:33:45 GMT -5
TY for the info It's Marvel's Greatest Comics #73 to #75. TY so much
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Post by fanboystranger on Apr 2, 2015 19:13:55 GMT -5
I read a little more "Age of Apocalypse" and it's not a chore to read anymore. I'm still mystified that anybody thinks this is a great comics saga. (I guess I didn't read enough super-hero comics in the 1990s to appreciate it. I've heard a phrase - '90s good - for stories that aren't really very good but were classics by the standards of the 1990s. Is Age of Apocalypse '90s good?) I wouldn't say that AoA was good by any measure, but it was better than the X-comics that surrounded it simply by virtue of getting off the hamster wheel of X-franchise-itis. As I phrased it in my earlier post, it was a real breath of fresh air for the X-books at the time, but only because it was attempting something different that seemed like it might matter. (In the end, it didn't, but reading those books at the time made it felt like it did.)
"'90s good" seems to me a bogus concept to begin with as there were some outstanding books produced in the '90s, from Shade, the Changing Man to Enigma to Preacher to Quantum and Woody to Hellboy to Starman and on and on. I don't think that the '90s was particularly worse than any other era in regards to its quality vs crap ratio, but that the perception is based on the overall popularity of the terrible books and event comics. I'd put the best of the '90s up against pretty much any other era.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 21:58:44 GMT -5
I read a little more "Age of Apocalypse" and it's not a chore to read anymore. I'm still mystified that anybody thinks this is a great comics saga. (I guess I didn't read enough super-hero comics in the 1990s to appreciate it. I've heard a phrase - '90s good - for stories that aren't really very good but were classics by the standards of the 1990s. Is Age of Apocalypse '90s good?) I wouldn't say that AoA was good by any measure, but it was better than the X-comics that surrounded it simply by virtue of getting off the hamster wheel of X-franchise-itis. As I phrased it in my earlier post, it was a real breath of fresh air for the X-books at the time, but only because it was attempting something different that seemed like it might matter. (In the end, it didn't, but reading those books at the time made it felt like it did.)
"'90s good" seems to me a bogus concept to begin with as there were some outstanding books produced in the '90s, from Shade, the Changing Man to Enigma to Preacher to Quantum and Woody to Hellboy to Starman and on and on. I don't think that the '90s was particularly worse than any other era in regards to its quality vs crap ratio, but that the perception is based on the overall popularity of the terrible books and event comics. I'd put the best of the '90s up against pretty much any other era.
I think part of it is that there seemed to be so much more product overall in the 90s compared to the previous decades, so even if the ratio of crap to quality was the same, there just seemed to be so much more crap overall. Of course that meant there was more quality too, but there was a sea of crap to wade through to find it on the shelves, if it was ordered in sufficient numbers to be found at most shops. a 3:1 ratio is a three to one ratio is a three to one ratio, but sifting through 4 books to find 1 quality book is different than sifting through 40 to find 10 and vastly different from sifting through 400 to find 100, especially if you started with the big name titles and encountered 30-40 crap titles off the bat with no gems to be found. -M
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