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Post by fanboystranger on Apr 7, 2015 23:09:38 GMT -5
I'm right now reading Invisibles deluxe HC vol 2. And I thought the first one was weird. I think my brain is melting... I always though the Invisibles had a poor beginning and a poor ending. The in-between stuff was quite engaging but my brain was left melting as well. I'm a smart enough guy... why did I not get this? I've told this story before, but back when I was in grad school, my then-girlfriend wanted to read some comics to see why I liked them so much. Invisibles was my favorite comic at the time, so I made the mistake of giving her that to read. Now, she was extremely intelligent and now holds a position at a prestigious university I couldn't even hope to get a look from, but she threw the book down on the ground because "this comic makes me feel dumb!" (This would have been the story from vol. 2 that reconfigured Boy's background as a counter-agent, still one of my favorite Invisibles arcs.) So, you're in good company.
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Polar Bear
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Post by Polar Bear on Apr 8, 2015 16:21:06 GMT -5
I really like this series, glow-in-the-dark covers and all. I know Dover books is reprinting Paul Johnson's Mercy (written by JM DeMatteis), and this seems like the kind of series they'd be interested in. I'm not sure how the Frontier comics contracts were structured, but unlike Mortigan Goth: Immortalis and Dances with Demons, there are no Marvel Universe links in Children of the Universe. (Actually, I think there may be a passing mention in DwD, but not much more than that. That would be an interesting book to get back in print as it's early work by The Walking Dead's Charlie Adlard. Not as good as Children of the Voyager, which is probably as close as Marvel ever got to having a book like Sandman.) Glad (and amazed) someone else remembers this! There was apparently an 8-page epilogue published in Marvel Frontier Unlimited, or something like that, but I never picked that up, so I never read it. All the more reason for a collected edition. I just read The Lone Ranger Movie Story, Dell, 1956, 96 pages, art by Tom Gill. Kind of an odd story--it's about how badly the Native Americans were mistreated by whites, yet it has some really unfortunate stereotyped speech of said Native Americans (e.g., "Now Angry Horse fix-um!"). You can't make this stuff up, can you? The issue also has several mildly interesting text pages giving background info, almost OHOTMU-style, on the Lone Ranger, Tonto, and Silver, much of which I hadn't known despite having followed the character on and off for years. The issue was in poor condition, one buck at the LCS (and worth every penny). I fixed it up with some book tape and wood glue on the spine, as I don't think it could've even survived a single reading otherwise.
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Post by fanboystranger on Apr 8, 2015 17:08:35 GMT -5
I really like this series, glow-in-the-dark covers and all. I know Dover books is reprinting Paul Johnson's Mercy (written by JM DeMatteis), and this seems like the kind of series they'd be interested in. I'm not sure how the Frontier comics contracts were structured, but unlike Mortigan Goth: Immortalis and Dances with Demons, there are no Marvel Universe links in Children of the Universe. (Actually, I think there may be a passing mention in DwD, but not much more than that. That would be an interesting book to get back in print as it's early work by The Walking Dead's Charlie Adlard. Not as good as Children of the Voyager, which is probably as close as Marvel ever got to having a book like Sandman.) Glad (and amazed) someone else remembers this! There was apparently an 8-page epilogue published in Marvel Frontier Unlimited, or something like that, but I never picked that up, so I never read it. All the more reason for a collected edition. I've often mentioned that the death of Frontier was one of Marvel's major lost opportunities in a decade filled with lost opportunities for Marvel. With Epic essentially dead after Mills pulled Marshall Law, this could have been a legitimate effort at a mature reader's line, but the whole Marvel UK implosion killed it. Bloodseed was pretty generic and early Image-y, but the other books were quite strong. And while the talent wasn't particularly well known, it was comparable to some of Vertigo's second-tier talent. (Nick Abadzis worked for both, but Abadzis also created Hugo Tate, which would be the British equivalent of Love and Rockets if more people had read it.) Hell, even most of Marvel UK's output in general was unfairly lumped in with bad '90s comics-- yeah, there were the huge guns and shoulder pads, but the actual stories were done at a better level. I've been re-reading Warheads lately, and while the '90s trappings are certainly there, the book has some really, really interesting and esoteric elements that set it apart from most books of its ilk (early Stormwatch, Youngblood, etc).
That Marvel Frontier Unlimited also has a great David Hine story called "Evil Eye" which was like a precursor to Strange Embrace and probably the closest we'll ever come to a Hine written Hellblazer.
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Polar Bear
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Married, father of six
Posts: 107
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Post by Polar Bear on Apr 8, 2015 17:48:23 GMT -5
There was some Marvel UK title in 1993 that was a huge megacrossover... it may have had B. Hitch artwork... it was much more violent than U.S. CCA comics of the time, and I was quite startled, since Spider-Man, etc. were in there, too. Both in story and art, it was stronger than much of the stuff being published at the time, despite my not remembering its name.
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Post by fanboystranger on Apr 8, 2015 18:20:57 GMT -5
There was some Marvel UK title in 1993 that was a huge megacrossover... it may have had B. Hitch artwork... it was much more violent than U.S. CCA comics of the time, and I was quite startled, since Spider-Man, etc. were in there, too. Both in story and art, it was stronger than much of the stuff being published at the time, despite my not remembering its name. Mys-Tech Wars
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Apr 9, 2015 8:24:55 GMT -5
I've actually been reading a lot of classic comics lately; I'm kind of back in the habit again. - Secrets of Sinister House 7, 8, 11, 12, 15, 16. Lots of good stuff by Nino, Alcala, and Redondo. Of particular interest are #7, with "The Hag's Curse/The Hamptons' Revenge," which reads like a subconscious influence on a somewhat famous time-tripping Greyshirt story by Alan Moore, and #12, with a surprisingly creepy little tale called "August Heat" by W.F. Harvey and adapted by E. Nelson Bridwell that looks like something Warren Ellis could have written if he'd been constricted by the CCA. Now that's a trifecta of awesome artists right there. Nice to see it's also in a Showcase volume, as the issues are pretty pricey. If it's anything like HoM or HoS in B&W it should be just as enjoyable. Thanks for the post.
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Post by spoon on Apr 9, 2015 17:39:00 GMT -5
Still reading through the 1980s Outsiders comics. I've read through #15 of the Baxter paper series.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Apr 9, 2015 18:37:08 GMT -5
I've been bingeing on a few classics lately...
Jon Sable Freelance by Mike Grell Reading again for the first time since I bought them as they came out in the 80s. I adored this series then, and have fallen in love again. Grell does some beautiful work here, (although I do wish he had hired an inker as I believe some of the art looks too rushed) and I really like the use of silent pages. Great covers too.
Daredevil V2 The relaunch by Quesada through Bendis/Maleev and Brubaker/Lark. I've read through to 500 or so, have about 15 to go, but OMFG this has been fantastic. A few clunkers for sure, but the overwhelming majority of the 100 plus issues so far have been outstanding. IMHO on a level with the best of Millers run, which I never thought would happen again.
Cerebus the Aardvark Dave Sim. I floundered with the first 20 or so, skipped a lot, but since getting serious with my reading in the early 20s I am remembering why I loved this book in the 80s. Its also very surprising because I normally dont like overly "talky" books, but love that here...and Cerebus is just so dang funny.
and Ive just read a Cinebook copy of Largo Winch 1 The Heir, my god thats some beautiful work, loving the story so far, and loving the change of pace from US standard 25 page stories.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 21:54:25 GMT -5
I've been bingeing on a few classics lately... Jon Sable Freelance by Mike Grell Reading again for the first time since I bought them as they came out in the 80s. I adored this series then, and have fallen in love again. Grell does some beautiful work here, (although I do wish he had hired an inker as I believe some of the art looks too rushed) and I really like the use of silent pages. Great covers too. I just placed an order with Lonestar to fill in the issues I needed to complete this and it is on the docket for my summer reading hopefully. -M
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Post by earl on Apr 9, 2015 22:50:48 GMT -5
I always though the Invisibles had a poor beginning and a poor ending. The in-between stuff was quite engaging but my brain was left melting as well. I'm a smart enough guy... why did I not get this? Because you hadn't read the material that Morrison was borrowing from/influenced by beforehand. A little knowledge about secret society lore, Terrence McKenna's theories, counter culture, Robert Anton Wilson's writings, the Invisible College, the body of myth surrounding the Templars, the Marquis de Sade, and a familiarity with Hermeticism, and it all makes perfect, sometimes even predictable sense. -M I liked the last volume of the Invisibles and quite liked the conclusion. The first arc was really slow and it fits with what is shown later, but it was an odd beginning. Grant Morrison's comics definitely don't seem as quite as unique if you have read Philip K Dick, Robert Anton Wilson or Michael Moorcock's Jerry Cornelius books, but I love the fact that Morrison brought that kind of speculative psychedelic fiction of "what is real" to comics. I really like Moorcock's writing but I think his and Alan Moore despising Morrison as a ripoff is a bit harsh as the Gideon Stargrave is obviously an homage to the Cornelius books and really not that different than what Moore did with the League comics. (Matt Fraction's Casanova is way closer to kinda a knock off of the Cornelius books than this section of The Invisibles, that said, I like what I have read of that comic too.) That said, you got to just roll with the weird with Morrison. I think the idea is that there are things far beyond what we know and it's too big to know. Really I think a greater portion of Morrison's super hero comics really mirror what he did in The Invisibles. This style is not for everyone. There are tons of science fiction fans over the years that didn't like Philip K. Dick for similar reasons. I'm probably due to re-read The Invisibles as I read it pretty early on getting back into comics. If you are curious and maybe want to see where some of this 'style' originates, I'd look into these books. Michael Moorcock- The Cornelius Quartet Philip K Dick- Ubik, A Scanner Darkly, Flow My Tears The Policeman Said (really quite a few of his books) Robert Anton Wilson- The Illuminatus! Trilogy
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 23:06:43 GMT -5
For me, Invisibles kind of fell apart a bit in the middle, and if you believe what Morrison wrote about himself in Supergods, it was about the time he got deathly ill and discovered the secret gods of the universe and the secrets of metafiction while he was hallucinating (or being visited by other dimensional entities if you prefer)and started treating writing comics as some grand experiment in metafictional shaping of reality rather than as an exercise in storytelling however weird and pushing the edges of what is possible with comics. When I discovered Morrison at the beginning of his Doom Patrol run and partway through his Animal Man run, I was blown away and he rapidly rose up the ranks of creators I would read without question, and I loved, loved, loved the Invisibles as it was coming out and for most of the first volume, but for me, it started to lose its way and Morrison became less and less interesting the weirder and more metafictional he tried to be, until it got to the point where I wasn't enjoying anything he was doing and he has sunk down the ranks to a creator I will rarely even give a look at any more. I still love his early work, but Invisibles is a turning point in his writing for me, and not a good turning point. I know others here disagree, and more power to them if they still love Morrison, I'm glad they have something they like, but for me he lost the knack for telling interesting stories about interesting characters and the inhabitants of his stories became puppets to the plot instead of what the stories were about and the subject of his grand experiments rather than something that could carry or drive a story. For me that is the difference between Morrison and the likes of Dick, Moorcock, Wilson and company, their stories, no matter how out there and experimental they were still featured characters that would fuel, drive, and carry the stories and not be incidental to the plots around them.
-M
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Post by Spike-X on Apr 10, 2015 3:11:47 GMT -5
Daredevil V2 The relaunch by Quesada through Bendis/Maleev and Brubaker/Lark. I've read through to 500 or so, have about 15 to go, but OMFG this has been fantastic. A few clunkers for sure, but the overwhelming majority of the 100 plus issues so far have been outstanding. IMHO on a level with the best of Millers run, which I never thought would happen again. An all-time classic run of comics. Just do yourself a favour and skip the Andy Diggle issues. Go straight to the excellent Mark Waid issues. Trust me. Definitely one of the greatest comics of all time. I need to re-read all my issues some time (I have up to the early 200s in either original issues or reprints), and maybe even get around to finishing it, if I can slog through the tedious 'What Dave Reckons About Dead Writers And Their All-Consuming Voids...Er, Wives' section.
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Post by fanboystranger on Apr 10, 2015 11:14:53 GMT -5
Because you hadn't read the material that Morrison was borrowing from/influenced by beforehand. A little knowledge about secret society lore, Terrence McKenna's theories, counter culture, Robert Anton Wilson's writings, the Invisible College, the body of myth surrounding the Templars, the Marquis de Sade, and a familiarity with Hermeticism, and it all makes perfect, sometimes even predictable sense. -M I really like Moorcock's writing but I think his and Alan Moore despising Morrison as a ripoff is a bit harsh as the Gideon Stargrave is obviously an homage to the Cornelius books and really not that different than what Moore did with the League comics. To be fair, Moorcock has also called out Morrison, just stopping short of calling him a plagiarist and a thief. I don't think that's entirely fair as The Invisibles is very clear that King Mob has built his persona from Moorcock's Cornelius stories. It's not just someone using the Cornelius ideas as Moorcock loves Bryan Talbot's Luther Awkwright, who is very clearly a Conelius surrogate. Of course, Moorcock and Moore are good friends, and often discuss their ideas for new books, so there is a personal component there.
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Post by earl on Apr 10, 2015 13:25:07 GMT -5
That's what I was referring towards, there is some interview with both Moorcock and Moore together I read and they pretty much savage Morrison. I've liked books by all of them and by no-doubt that Michael Moorcock and Alan Moore are both pioneers that opened up new ideas in genre fiction, but to me there is plenty of other things in the Invisibles that ISN'T from either one and a big part of the Invisibles is really about Morrison and his Dad and what he was raised around. Quite a bit of these kinds of works really have elements I think out of his own life. All fiction and artwork comes from some place else, it's all built upon others bones.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Apr 10, 2015 23:27:15 GMT -5
It always makes me smile when I read of Alan Moore climbing on his high horse and accusing others of plagiarism and other such heinous crimes, yet in his days at 2000AD he was loved and respected for the Ballad of Halo Jones. Now even I, who was none too bright back then, came to realise it was just a thinly veiled Forever War by Joe Haldeman. Maybe it was a "homage", which of course makes it all okay to do, doesnt it ?
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