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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 12, 2016 19:37:28 GMT -5
From my recollections, as the years went on, their music creation became increasingly insular. Which makes sense since they would individually be maturing and gaining more confidence and finding their individual voice. Generally speaking whoever sung the lead vocals was the writer as well. Confessor mentioned Day In The Life and thats true that McCartney appended that entire bridge section of the song. But by then, such a major collaboration on a single song was getting rare and would be rarer still. I'm not counting the Abby Road medleys where they smashed some shorter work together as a true collaboration. I haven't listened to it for some time but wasn't that long medley on side 2 mostly or even all McCartney? Polythene Pam was a Lennon tune
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 12, 2016 19:51:06 GMT -5
Moving on to ACG Comics, Herbie-The Fat Fury actually joined The Beatles after yanking Ringo off the drum set
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 12, 2016 23:27:34 GMT -5
Not everyone liked The Beatles
Pop Hates The Beatles
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 12, 2016 23:32:04 GMT -5
The Carefrees Love The Beatles
And The Vernons Girls do too
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 12, 2016 23:45:11 GMT -5
These guys hate The Beatles because they love them too much. No wonder the song sucks
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Post by chadwilliam on Mar 13, 2016 0:00:26 GMT -5
The Greatest Rock Parody.....EverOK, maybe I'm prejudiced. There has been many good comedy films dealing with Rock N' Roll and the movie Spinal Tap gets an 11 in my top ten. But there is one thing that scores higher. Its the awesomeness of THE RUTLESEric Idle and Neal Innes teamed up to write for TV the mockumentary All You Need Is Cash in 1978. George Harrison also joined in the fun. Pieces were shown on Saturday Night Live when Eric Idle co-hosted. Members of that comedy show contributed some cameos too. The 20 original songs done in Beatles fashion are brilliant even on their own. In 2002 a follow-up film was made Can't Buy Me Lunch2 CDs where produced featuring the songs from each film Here's the original 1978 film. I envy any who will watch it the for the first time. Please excuse the subtitles but thats the cost of a free video in this instance
I actually saw Nasty and Barry perform in London about 10 years ago and it was a very surreal experience for me. When I was a kid first getting into The Beatles there actually wasn't a lot out there to watch/read about them. The Compleat Beatles documentary, A Hard Day's Night and Help! (Magical Mystery Tour, Yellow Submarine, and Let it Be seemed to never get airtime), and All You Need is Cash was it. So in my mind in the early 80's as a four/five year old kid The Rutles and The Beatles kind of got blurred together in certain ways - seeing Ron Nasty and Barry Wom performing together then, was like slipping into some alternate reality where John and Ringo were touring together in the present.
A lot of great stories behind The Rutles by the way with my favorite being that when the actor playing the reporter during The Rutle Corp robberies sequence was filming his cameo, a passerby approached him, pointed to Neil Innes, and asked "Is that John Lennon?". What he didn't realize was that he was speaking to George Harrison.
Favorite Beatles songs at the moment:
1. Blackbird (which is actually about civil rights) 2. Across the Universe 3. I'll Cry Instead 4. I'll Follow the Sun 5. You're Gonna Lose that Girl 6. Two of Us 7. I Need You 8. It Won't Be Long 9. If I Fell 10. Hey Bulldog
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Post by berkley on Mar 13, 2016 1:31:59 GMT -5
I haven't listened to it for some time but wasn't that long medley on side 2 mostly or even all McCartney? Polythene Pam was a Lennon tune yes, of course; forgot about that one.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 13, 2016 2:38:02 GMT -5
Polythene Pam was a Lennon tune yes, of course; forgot about that one. And on further thought and I verified, so was Mean Mr. Mustard and Sun King
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,197
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Post by Confessor on Mar 13, 2016 10:52:18 GMT -5
Also, choosing between "John songs" and "Paul songs" is problematic, since the majority of the songs credited to Lennon/McCartney were, to a greater or lesser degree, written by the two of them together. There are plenty of exceptions, of course, like "Yesterday", "Julia", "Blackbird", or "Across the Universe", but the majority of the Lennon/McCartney songbook features songs that were actually written by them both.Except for the earliest songs and a few later exceptions, that's not what I know as the facts. By 1965 or so they exclusively created their individual songs but maintained the agreement to share credits on all their songs. Once in awhile John or Paul might get stuck for a lyric and the other would make a suggestion that would wind up incorporated. If you think I'm in error, please link me to something that supports your theory but it goes against everything I've read about them in articles and interviews I won't "link" to anything, but I can certainly tell you exactly which books and people I'm citing. The thing is, once the idea that Lennon/McCartney did sometimes write separately became widely known, this aspect of their partnership was perhaps an over-emphasised by Beatles' authors in the '70s and '80s. But, with the publication of books like Mark Lewishon's The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions, Ian McDonald's Revolution in the Head, and McCartney's own Many Years from Now in the '90s, along with evidence in Hunter Davis's authorised biography of the Beatles from the late '60s, it's clear that the majority of the songs credited to Lennon/McCartney were actually written by the two of them. There are quite a lot that weren't, of course, especially in the post- Sgt. Pepper era, but still, across the Beatles' entire oeuvre, there are more that were than weren't. From my recollections, as the years went on, their music creation became increasingly insular. Which makes sense since they would individually be maturing and gaining more confidence and finding their individual voice. Generally speaking whoever sung the lead vocals was the writer as well. This is all true, except for the bolded statement, which is only partially correct. The truth is that on many occasions, the person who sang the lead vocals wrote the majority of the song or had the initial idea for the song, but not necessarily that they wrote it entirely by themselves. Just to get a bit technical and semi-legal for a moment, what constitutes songwriting in the eyes of the law are the lyrics, chords, melody and any readily-identifiable riff in a song. Things like guitar solos, drums, bass-lines, horn sections, string arrangements etc are all arrangement contributions, not songwriting ones. You mention that a Lennon/McCartnety collaboration like "A Day in the Life" was rare by the time that the band got to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, but it wasn't as rare as you might think. No less than six of the songs credited to Lennon/McCartney on the Sgt. Pepper album were indeed written by the pair of them. The songs that are true Lennon/McCartney compositions on Sgt. Pepper are... - "With a Little Help from My Friends" (written together as a "Ringo song", while sat at a piano)
- "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" (mostly written by Lennon, but McCartney actually helped write quite a lot of the surrealistic lyrics, which you might assume were all John's)
- "Getting Better" (the bulk of it was written by McCartney, but the refrain and attendant answering vocals were written by Lennon)
- "She's Leaving Home" (the initial idea for the song was McCartney's, and he wrote the verses, but Lennon wrote the "She... (we gave her most of our lives), is leaving... (sacrificed most of our lives)" bits)
- "Good Morning, Good Morning" (mostly Lennon, but McCartney helped out with the music by changing a few chords here and there)
- "A Day in the Life" (as we've already discussed)
So, you see that, even as late as 1967, Lennon and McCartney did still write a fair few songs together. Of course, this became less and less the case as the band moved into 1968 and 1969, but overall, for most of the band's professional career (1962-1970), the majority of Lennon and McCartney songs were indeed written by the two of them. That said, the eyeball-to-eyeball writing that the pair engaged in throughout much of their pre-fame partnership (in the Goffin-King or Rogers-Hammerstein mold) had all but stopped by 1964. Although, having said that, songs like "With a Little Help from My Friends" and "Birthday" prove that they did still write that way later on in their career, on occasion. But nonetheless, they still wrote most of the Lennon/McCartney songbook together, with each contributing chords, lyrics, melody and/or riffs to each other's basic ideas. And this is particularly true from 1962 until, say, 1967.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 13, 2016 11:28:02 GMT -5
Confessor-for the most part we're saying the same thing and the difference is boiling down to semantics
I said generally speaking, and you say that's partially correct and point out the few exceptions. That's what generally speaking implies
I said they wrote many together up till about 1965 or so in true collaborations. Then,increasingly over the years, they were more insular, bringing their new song demos to the studio when it was time to record or just playing it live to the others. One might give the other a suggestion or help out with a lyric. The last few years as a group even that diminished
You pretty much seem to agree with that. But when you use a term like collaborate, it my mind, that means pretty close to a 50-50 partnership and that is what I challenged. If one contributes a verse or a line, it seems like 90-10 or so. I wouldn't call that a collaboration. A helping hand maybe
Maybe the different sides of the Atlantic ocean accounts for the semantic difference. I say color, you say colour or something like that. I'm trying to couch my phrases without absolutes. In a group dynamic and hundreds of songs involved there will be full or partial exceptions.
We can just move on. berkeley landed in the middle of us. A true arbitrator
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 13, 2016 19:22:02 GMT -5
The Beatles And Mad MagazineI recall a mad movie parody from the 1960s for one of the James Bond films. A panel has Bond in the offices of M. M tells him "James, with the British empire losing its colonies and the British Pound getting devalued, you and The Beatles are all we have left" That final image with Ringo I recall was the back cover to Mad # 100, a parody on a popular shampoo ad from . Can't make out the artist's signature but I believe it was Frank Frazetta with his final Mad contribution. I don't think he did much, if anything, previously
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,197
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Post by Confessor on Mar 14, 2016 5:14:48 GMT -5
You pretty much seem to agree with that. But when you use a term like collaborate, it my mind, that means pretty close to a 50-50 partnership and that is what I challenged. If one contributes a verse or a line, it seems like 90-10 or so. I wouldn't call that a collaboration. A helping hand maybe Yeah, this is where we differ. A songwriting collaboration is rarely ever going to be a true 50-50 split, unless you have strictly defined roles in which one person just writes the words and the other just writes the music (like a Bernie Taupin/Elton John type arrangement). In a partnership in which both musicians write the words and the music one or other of the writers is bound to lead the way, to a greater or lesser degree, at any given time. I also think you're being a bit stingy calling the writing of a verse or a refrain as being more like a 90-10 split. "She's Leaving Home" without Lennon's chorus refrain (he wrote the words, melody and presumably the chords to this section BTW), and some alternate refrain penned by McCartney instead, would result in a distinctly different song. It's as simple as that. Regardless of the precise nature of the split though, the fact is, those songs, in which one or other of them took the lead, were still written by both Lennon and McCartney. Just because they weren't precise 50-50 splits is no reason to say that they're not real collaborations. As such, I stand by my earlier statement that there are more songs credited to Lennon/McCartney in the Beatles' oeuvre that were genuinely written by the pair of them than there are that weren't. As an aside, did you know that the song "Octopus's Garden" should really be credited to Starkey/Harrison, rather than to Starkey alone? Although the initial idea for the song was Ringo's, George helped out an awful lot with the chord structure and the melody. You can see them both working on the embryonic song, with George suggesting different chord variations to Ringo, in the Beatles' film Let It Be. George obviously decided that he didn't want any financial reward for his help on the song and so didn't take a writing credit, no doubt feeling that he was just doing his mate a favour. But if he had wanted to be credited as the co-writer of "Octopus's Garden", he would've definitely had grounds to do so. I guess this is why "Octopus's Garden" is a much better song than "Don't Pass Me By".
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Post by berkley on Mar 14, 2016 11:43:11 GMT -5
Here's a link to that Hit Parader interview with Lennon . It says it's the "full text" but it looks more like a summary to me, but I haven't had a chance to look at it closely yet. One thing I meant to mention earlier about the Beatles songs in general: they were the first band I ever found myself singing or humming along to the bass-line on many songs rather than the vocal melody - Eight Days a Week, for example; She Loves You comes to kind as well, off the top of my head.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Mar 14, 2016 16:54:52 GMT -5
Continuing the Beatles 1960s Comics Book Appearances by publisherA Mr. Zack Zyrson form Wilmington Del. writes to me and asks "Hey Ish, Did The Beatles every appear in a Tower Comics book. You know, Thunder Agents, Undersea Agents perhaps had a Yellow Submarine cameo, No Man and Nowhere Man were separated at birth. Did they show up in Tower Comics Ish, did they huh, did they? Yes Mr Zyrson, they sure did. Squint and you'll spot them Yes Tower Comics had a series patterned after Archie. Along with the cover reproduced above, There was a back cover Beatle pinup in Tippy Teen # 23. Good luck finding that comic
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2016 21:58:00 GMT -5
Continuing the Beatles 1960s Comics Book Appearances by publisherA Mr. Zack Zyrson form Wilmington Del. writes to me and asks "Hey Ish, Did The Beatles every appear in a Tower Comics book. You know, Thunder Agents, Undersea Agents perhaps had a Yellow Submarine cameo, No Man and Nowhere Man were separated at birth. Did they show up in Tower Comics Ish, did they huh, did they? Yes Mr Zyrson, they sure did. Squint and you'll spot them Yes Tower Comics had a series patterned after Archie. Along with the cover reproduced above, There was a back cover Beatle pinup in Tippy Teen # 23. Good luck finding that comic Of course the next issue of Tippy's friends featured the Monkees on the cover, so it was any pop band to try to get anyone to buy the Tower Comics... -M
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