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Post by Ish Kabbible on Apr 29, 2016 12:11:55 GMT -5
I'm digging the main Iron Man book since Bendis took over, but International #1 didn't blow my skirt up. I didn't know you were Scottish
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Golddragon71
Full Member
Immortal avatar of the Dragon Race The Golden Dragon
Posts: 343
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Post by Golddragon71 on May 2, 2016 11:21:34 GMT -5
I've been thinking a lot about this Rebirth thing lately and I have to say I'm not seeing that much come out of it. I mean, we get Pre-Crisis Supes/Lois and Clark back and while i love them, they're still just one part of a larger DCU So is Nightwing. Of course my main complaint is that we're stuck with NuWally still.....but not for the reasons most would associate a Wally fan to complain
The fact is that with Titans hunt and the Rebirth Titans we get the return of the classic Titans Members Dick, Donna, Roy, Garth and...Lilith?!? In addition Green/Blue/White/Omega lantern Kyle Rayner who is also (age-wise) allowed to retain his adulthood. Meanwhile, Wally West is delayed in being allowed to join the DCNU. When he is, he's racially shifted,* de-aged and demoted back to being Kid Flash (Teen Sidekick). See my point? All of Wally's original peers and even his newer one (Kyle) are now much older than he is and for all intents, none of them are too drastically different from what they were Pre-Flashpoint. (Actually Garth (Aqualed/Tempest) came out much better as he had died prior to Flashpoint)
*A result of DC trying to Over-correct the lack of diversity in the silver age for the sake of modern-day political correctness. Of Course it's not just the PC/Over-correction that caused Wally's racial shift. By the Time Wally was being prepped for a return to the DCU, the TV series was in development and the Wests were cast as they were. So we got an early instance of WB Oversight where the Comics characters have to now Conform to their Live action Media couterparts. Why not just let DC do what it always used to? Have seperate Comic book adaptations of the Films and/or TV specials and let the mainstream comics have their traditional looks be un- tainted by said media.
In addition. We had a really Great Kid Flash in the Form of Bart Allen Pre-Flashpoint and he's wiped from the Multiverse entirely, replaced byan Alien Criminal from the future who almost ruins any hope that we'll ever see Bart Allen again (unless netflix brings back Young Justice)
Then there's Lobo. I was a huge fan of the Original Man Man back in the 90's when my college roommate introduced me to him. I collected all the miniseries, specials and the ongoing. all of his appearances in the various animated series that followed kept him in pretty much that same form. Then we got the new 52 version.....A pretty Boy in leather. (fit for the CW maybe but in no way is he the bad- @$$ that i enjoyed through the 90s. I hope if rebirth does nothing else, we'll at least get the Original Main Man Back as he was and kick this pretender to the curb.
Now granted, if I had my way i'd just have the whole Pre-Flashpoint DCU returned as a separate Earth within the Multiverse and now show what's been going on there.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 2, 2016 12:01:03 GMT -5
(...) Now granted, if I had my way i'd just have the whole Pre-Flashpoint DCU returned as a separate Earth within the Multiverse and now show what's been going on there. That would the simplest and most elegant way to make everyone happy. Yes, DC... The pre-crisis multiverse wasn't the problem... it's even the solution!
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 2, 2016 15:47:47 GMT -5
*A result of DC trying to Over-correct the lack of diversity in the silver age for the sake of modern-day political correctness. Of Course it's not just the PC/Over-correction that caused Wally's racial shift. By the Time Wally was being prepped for a return to the DCU, the TV series was in development and the Wests were cast as they were. So we got an early instance of WB Oversight where the Comics characters have to now Conform to their Live action Media couterparts. Why not just let DC do what it always used to? Have seperate Comic book adaptations of the Films and/or TV specials and let the mainstream comics have their traditional looks be un- tainted by said media. Well, no. That's never been true. Jimmy Olsen was created for the Superman radio show and given his own comic because of the character's TV popularity. Wonder Woman was set during WW II for a while because of the TV show. Harley Quinn and blue? electric? girl? I forget her name? were introduced to DC continuity after they appeared on the tv shows? (I am pretty clueless about the cartoons.) The entire industry changed tones due to the campy Batman show of the '60s. (Well, the entire industry except for the Batman comics, which mostly ignored it!) John Byrne's 1968 Superman reboot was inspired by both the '50s TV show and Superman: The Movie. I do feel for ya; You have fuzzy, nostalgic memories of one specifc time period and you would like DC to try and replicate that time period. And, as anyone who has read my posts on this board will tell you, I am ALL FOR complaining about DC Comics right now. But as a guy who has been reading comics since the PreCambrian (1982!) and actually prefers mainstream comics even older than that... this is DC doing what it always does. Rebooting it's characters and copying the media.
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Post by Action Ace on May 2, 2016 17:58:53 GMT -5
*A result of DC trying to Over-correct the lack of diversity in the silver age for the sake of modern-day political correctness. Of Course it's not just the PC/Over-correction that caused Wally's racial shift. By the Time Wally was being prepped for a return to the DCU, the TV series was in development and the Wests were cast as they were. So we got an early instance of WB Oversight where the Comics characters have to now Conform to their Live action Media couterparts. Why not just let DC do what it always used to? Have seperate Comic book adaptations of the Films and/or TV specials and let the mainstream comics have their traditional looks be un- tainted by said media. Well, no. That's never been true. Jimmy Olsen was created for the Superman radio show and given his own comic because of the character's TV popularity. Wonder Woman was set during WW II for a while because of the TV show. Harley Quinn and blue? electric? girl? I forget her name? were introduced to DC continuity after they appeared on the tv shows? (I am pretty clueless about the cartoons.) The entire industry changed tones due to the campy Batman show of the '60s. (Well, the entire industry except for the Batman comics, which mostly ignored it!) John Byrne's 1968 Superman reboot was inspired by both the '50s TV show and Superman: The Movie. I do feel for ya; You have fuzzy, nostalgic memories of one specifc time period and you would like DC to try and replicate that time period. And, as anyone who has read my posts on this board will tell you, I am ALL FOR complaining about DC Comics right now. But as a guy who has been reading comics since the PreCambrian (1982!) and actually prefers mainstream comics even older than that... this is DC doing what it always does. Rebooting it's characters and copying the media. You're thinking of Livewire. Oddly enough, one time DC didn't follow other media was the first Flash tv show. The tv show used Barry who had died a few years before.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 3, 2016 13:44:23 GMT -5
Here's one that I came across when I was getting caught up on Detective Comics when I got back into collecting in 2011 after a seven-year absence. It's called Pipeline, it was a 12-part backup feature in Detective Comics #854 to #865. Our heroine is the Question, but it's not Victor Sage. Before succumbing to cancer, Vic recruited and trained a successor, former GCPD detective Renee Montoya. When Pipeline opens, she's been around long enough to make a few guest appearances and now she's moved up to her own backup series! She's looking for a missing girl, and she finds out that this case is about a lot more than one missing person. I love this series! If somebody had told me about it before I came across it accidentally, I think I would have been reluctant to read it. Montoya had gone through A LOT of changes since the last time I saw her in the Batman books back in 2004. (I used to think she looked like Penelope Cruz. The new Montoya looked like Maria de Medeiros.) (Not that there's anything wrong with looking like Maria de Medeiros!) It's stylish and exciting and often suspenseful. The Huntress shows up! The scene with Barbara Gordon is very amusing. And then you get to the end and ... I won't spoil it. It's available in TPB and it's worth the effort to track it down. See if the library has it! I don't think I've ever heard anybody talk about this series. I find that surprising because to me, it's the best storyline I came across from that 2004 to 2011 period when I wasn't reading comics. (Except maybe for All-Star Superman. And maybe the first ten issues (or so) of the 2009 Power Girl series.)
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Post by Action Ace on May 3, 2016 18:28:17 GMT -5
Renee's old partner from Gotham Central, Crispus Allen, became the Spectre at about the same time.
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Post by String on May 3, 2016 19:34:09 GMT -5
Here's one that I came across when I was getting caught up on Detective Comics when I got back into collecting in 2011 after a seven-year absence. It's called Pipeline, it was a 12-part backup feature in Detective Comics #854 to #865. Our heroine is the Question, but it's not Victor Sage. Before succumbing to cancer, Vic recruited and trained a successor, former GCPD detective Renee Montoya. When Pipeline opens, she's been around long enough to make a few guest appearances and now she's moved up to her own backup series! She's looking for a missing girl, and she finds out that this case is about a lot more than one missing person. Was the creative team Rucka with Cully Hammer? Either way, I'll check this out. Montoya as the Question, under the guidance of Rucka, was one of the best things I've loved about a Dido-led DCU. If you read 52, you'll learn how Vic came to train her to take over the guise. It's one of the best sub-plots of the entire series (along with Rucka's development of Kathy Kane). Her follow-up appearances (and later a mini of her own) were good and I was enjoying the directions that Rucka was taking her towards. But then Flashpoint happened and it ALL went to H-E-double hockey sticks.
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Post by dupersuper on May 3, 2016 21:28:17 GMT -5
All of Wally's original peers and even his newer one (Kyle) are now much older than he is and for all intents, none of them are too drastically different from what they were Pre-Flashpoint. Well, Donna and Garth are killers. That's new...
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 4, 2016 20:13:09 GMT -5
Well, no. That's never been true. Jimmy Olsen was created for the Superman radio show and given his own comic because of the character's TV popularity. Wonder Woman was set during WW II for a while because of the TV show. Harley Quinn and blue? electric? girl? I forget her name? were introduced to DC continuity after they appeared on the tv shows? (I am pretty clueless about the cartoons.) The entire industry changed tones due to the campy Batman show of the '60s. (Well, the entire industry except for the Batman comics, which mostly ignored it!) John Byrne's 1968 Superman reboot was inspired by both the '50s TV show and Superman: The Movie. I do feel for ya; You have fuzzy, nostalgic memories of one specifc time period and you would like DC to try and replicate that time period. And, as anyone who has read my posts on this board will tell you, I am ALL FOR complaining about DC Comics right now. But as a guy who has been reading comics since the PreCambrian (1982!) and actually prefers mainstream comics even older than that... this is DC doing what it always does. Rebooting it's characters and copying the media. You're thinking of Livewire. Oddly enough, one time DC didn't follow other media was the first Flash tv show. The tv show used Barry who had died a few years before. Livewire. Right. (Seems like a pretty good character, actually. I am sorry I forgot your name, Livewire.) And that is true. Wally really should have been mothballed in 1989. I wonder why they didn't? Was the Wally West Flash a huge hit? I know that Barry got cancelled after 34,000 years of Trial of the Flash stories, but that was 3 whole years in the past! Time to move on! And I did like the post-Crisis Flash series for, like, the first 180 issues or so (which is rare) but it did completely recharacterize Wally West with no explanation, and that always bothered me. The Teen Titans were still in continuity, right? So why is Wally being such a jerk all of a sudden! It's rare that I get too uptight about continuity stuff, but that always bugged me.
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 4, 2016 22:36:17 GMT -5
You know what I've never understood? Why is Barry Allen 'the' Flash. He wasn't first. He was around for 245 issues.... Wally was around for 247. They both were the centerpiece of an event. I guess Barry was around a bit longer time wise (27 years vs. 23 for Wally and 19 for Jay) but is that it?
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 4, 2016 22:39:00 GMT -5
He was the first character in DC's '50s superhero revival, unless you count the Martian Manhunter? He's the most historically important of the three characters.
Still, he wasn't the Flash (in comic fans brains at least) for a good two decades.
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Post by Batflunkie on May 5, 2016 7:46:13 GMT -5
Wally was the better Flash I think, and probably one of the better examples of a former kid sidekick being a great replacement for his former mentor. My only problem with Wally is that, unlike Barry, he really doesn't seem to have much going for him except being a former kid sidekick and former billionaire
Take away that and he's just a everyday schlub that can run at an incredibly high velocity. You could probably replace him with a fast moving hobo and I don't think that you'd be missing out on much
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on May 5, 2016 19:27:26 GMT -5
To be fair, you take away everything different from anyone and they become generic. At least Wally seemed like a real person, Barry was always just another carbon copy middle aged white dude in longjohns, like Hal, Ray, and Oliver(pre-beard). He book was infinitely superior to Barry's (old or Nu52).
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 5, 2016 19:59:01 GMT -5
To be fair, you take away everything different from anyone and they become generic. At least Wally seemed like a real person, Barry was always just another carbon copy middle aged white dude in longjohns, like Hal, Ray, and Oliver(pre-beard). He book was infinitely superior to Barry's (old or Nu52). Keep in mind that while I have no nostalgia in my soul at all, I tend to prefer the original version of the character... I thought Barry was the stronger character even if (on average) his book was slightly worse. He was a science nerd with a slight case of Aspergers, a really steady, focused and deliberate guy. He was unique in superhero characterization. Wally was Spider-man + the earth two Robin. Although I really like the current Flash TV show - which is about half Wally and half Barry. That might be about the perfect balance.
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