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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 18, 2016 17:00:49 GMT -5
And what would he be, if not a hero? Morally speaking, and considering his actions, he must be either a hero or a villain, there's no middle ground here. Well, not really. His actions lead to the downfall of a corrupt regime, that's true, but V appears to be motivated at least partly by a desire for personal revenge, not justice, and the mental torture he subjects Evey to is in no way heroic. I think you're oversimplifying, to be honest. There's always a middle ground. "Hero" and "villain" are superlatives; given the magnitude of his actions, he must be one or the other. Unless he's unaccountable, i.e. crazy. But he's not, because his actions are coherent and work towards a rational goal. His methods may be eccentric, but I wouldn't say he falls, on the other deranged side of the line. Given the circumstances, I'm afraid black and white are the only shades of grey, available. |
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Post by String on Apr 18, 2016 17:43:17 GMT -5
In terms of a comic movie making a lasting impression, a movie that I would love to watch repeatedly, the only Marvel movie that makes the list for me is Iron Man. Being a long-time IM fan, seeing how Downey Jr breathed new life into Tony, the story and drama, the action and effects, it was and remains an amazing film.
The first Superman movie remains an all-time favorite for reasons I've stated elsewhere.
I would group the Nolan Batman trilogy together as one of my all-time favorites. How the themes and dramatic arcs twist and connect through each successive film is incredible, the acting is first-rate, and the musical score is amazing. TBS and TNT usually have a movie marathon of the trilogy over a weekend and I've found that I can re-watch each film endlessly.
As for animated films, Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker is my all-time favorite. How the Joker was resurrected was a clever twist but really, the heart of the film, Batman's dark and brutal last confrontation with the Joker, how Terry comes to realize how he should face his resurrection and the insights he gains over the Joker's obsessive compulsion towards Bruce over the years, an amazing character piece with terrific action.
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Post by batlaw on Apr 18, 2016 18:02:37 GMT -5
Top of the list for me, and perhaps the only to really whole heartedly fit this are superman and superman 2. Close others would be batman begins, iron man, watchmen and capt America. Correction / update. Along with superman 1 and 2, I'd personall have to add The Crow and Unbreakable. And even Flash Gordon. Very powerful and personal affection and attachments to those movies and their themes. Even if they may not qualify as super heroes or super hero movies necessarily. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 18, 2016 19:15:17 GMT -5
Top of the list for me, and perhaps the only to really whole heartedly fit this are superman and superman 2. Close others would be batman begins, iron man, watchmen and capt America. Correction / update. Along with superman 1 and 2, I'd personall have to add The Crow and Unbreakable. And even Flash Gordon. Very powerful and personal affection and attachments to those movies and their themes. Even if they may not qualify as super heroes or super hero movies necessarily. I certainly think they count. I wouldnt choose them myself, but I consider them eligible. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 18, 2016 19:16:44 GMT -5
Well, not really. His actions lead to the downfall of a corrupt regime, that's true, but V appears to be motivated at least partly by a desire for personal revenge, not justice, and the mental torture he subjects Evey to is in no way heroic. I think you're oversimplifying, to be honest. There's always a middle ground. "Hero" and "villain" are superlatives; given the magnitude of his actions, he must be one or the other. Unless he's unaccountable, i.e. crazy. But he's not, because his actions are coherent and work towards a rational goal. His methods may be eccentric, but I wouldn't say he falls, on the other deranged side of the line. Given the circumstances, I'm afraid black and white are the only shades of grey, available. That may be your opinion. It's hardly a fact. And it's probably off topic, unless you'd like to begin another thread for discussing this. |
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Post by Action Ace on Apr 18, 2016 23:16:17 GMT -5
I think nearly all of them have left an impression, some good, some bad.
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 19, 2016 0:55:45 GMT -5
"Hero" and "villain" are superlatives; given the magnitude of his actions, he must be one or the other. Unless he's unaccountable, i.e. crazy. But he's not, because his actions are coherent and work towards a rational goal. His methods may be eccentric, but I wouldn't say he falls, on the other deranged side of the line. Given the circumstances, I'm afraid black and white are the only shades of grey, available. That may be your opinion. It's hardly a fact. And it's probably off topic, unless you'd like to begin another thread for discussing this. It's an attempt at clarifying definitions 1 c and 2 b (the ones that might have real life, moral implications). When talking about concepts, you need as much precision as with facts, hence the confusion, I guess. But this is partly off-topic (the word "hero" being on the title thread, though) and I don't see a dedicated thread, doing it much good. |
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Post by tingramretro on Apr 19, 2016 1:19:28 GMT -5
Well, not really. His actions lead to the downfall of a corrupt regime, that's true, but V appears to be motivated at least partly by a desire for personal revenge, not justice, and the mental torture he subjects Evey to is in no way heroic. I think you're oversimplifying, to be honest. There's always a middle ground. "Hero" and "villain" are superlatives; given the magnitude of his actions, he must be one or the other. Unless he's unaccountable, i.e. crazy. But he's not, because his actions are coherent and work towards a rational goal. His methods may be eccentric, but I wouldn't say he falls, on the other deranged side of the line. Given the circumstances, I'm afraid black and white are the only shades of grey, available. I really cannot agree with that. Most people are neither heroes nor villains, and neither is V, to my way of thinking. He's a complex character who does some highly morally questionable things in pursuit of a goal which, while it leads to the downfall of a corrupt regime, is in itself largely nothing more than a desire for revenge. That's not heroism, but neither is he a villain. I'm also far from convinced that he's entirely sane-in fact, after what he was put through at Larkhill, it would be a miracle if he were. Sane people do not behave in the way that V behaves. |
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Post by tingramretro on Apr 19, 2016 1:20:47 GMT -5
"Hero" and "villain" are superlatives; given the magnitude of his actions, he must be one or the other. Unless he's unaccountable, i.e. crazy. But he's not, because his actions are coherent and work towards a rational goal. His methods may be eccentric, but I wouldn't say he falls, on the other deranged side of the line. Given the circumstances, I'm afraid black and white are the only shades of grey, available. That may be your opinion. It's hardly a fact. And it's probably off topic, unless you'd like to begin another thread for discussing this. Sorry, I should really have read ahead before responding to that post. |
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Post by Dizzy D on Apr 19, 2016 2:17:10 GMT -5
The hero of V for Vendetta is Evey. V is her mentor, but as he himself points out, he's too obsessed with revenge to be a hero, while Evey was capable of forgiveness.
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Post by tingramretro on Apr 19, 2016 4:58:18 GMT -5
The hero of V for Vendetta is Evey. V is her mentor, but as he himself points out, he's too obsessed with revenge to be a hero, while Evey was capable of forgiveness. Agreed. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 19, 2016 6:40:22 GMT -5
The hero of V for Vendetta is Evey. V is her mentor, but as he himself points out, he's too obsessed with revenge to be a hero, while Evey was capable of forgiveness. Quote? |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 19, 2016 6:56:44 GMT -5
The hero of V for Vendetta is Evey. V is her mentor, In the GN, I agree. In the film, I don't. |
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Post by dupersuper on Apr 19, 2016 8:46:02 GMT -5
Of the ones I've seen:
Superman
Superman 2
Captain America
Captain America 2
Iron Man
Avengers
Guardians of the Galaxy
Spider-Man 2
X-Men 2
X-Men 1st Class
X-men: Days of Future Past
Deadpool
Incredibles
Mystery Men
Kick-Ass Hellboy Rocketeer Big Hero 6
Dark Knight
Mask of the Phantasm
Return of the Joker
V for Vendetta
Watchmen
Unbreakable
Batman V Superman
non-super hero comic films:
Ghost World
American Splendor
Sin City
I've greatly enjoyed others (Thor 1 and 2, Avengers 2, Superman 3, Incredible Hulk, Ant Man, X-Men, Blade, Batman 66, Batman 89, Batman Begins, Condorman, Sky High...), but these were the ones I found impactful (positively). |
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Post by Bronze Age Brian on Apr 19, 2016 12:33:08 GMT -5
X-Men First Class, Batman vs. Superman, Dark Knight Trilogy and Deadpool for me.
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