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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 20:18:01 GMT -5
Well!
I am glad to see that some aren't taking lightly the abuse the victims went though.
He should have been fired the first time this happened. Sexual harassers/assaulters shouldn't be rehabbed. They should be fired.
Does anyone know if DC helped the victims? I mean, if they rehabbed the harasser/assaulter, did they try to get the victims any help?
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 28, 2016 20:23:44 GMT -5
I am glad to see that some aren't taking lightly the abuse the victims went though. I don't think anybody is, I think it's just a tough topic that a lot of people don't necessarily want to or feel like discussing. Not that it has anything to do with sexism from the perspective of the outsider, but more like "what can you say about it?" That it's wrong to the point of being deplorable?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 20:27:15 GMT -5
Yes.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Apr 28, 2016 21:15:17 GMT -5
Let me see if I understand this
You got this DC editor, Eddie Berganza, accused by multiple women of sexual harrassment including incidents in front of witnesses As a member of management, this is even more troubling because he's a corporate role model and people report to him But he keeps his job and women are no longer allowed to work in his office even after his "snicker' rehabilitation "guffaw" So women at DC now have the door closed for opportunities for work in a sector of DC in order not to further tempt Eddie Berganza from behaving like a normal male He keeps his job, women lose the right to work in a few positions at the company and no one sees the hypocrisy of the situation?
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Post by Action Ace on Apr 28, 2016 22:26:58 GMT -5
For those of you coming in late, I recommend this article from The Beat. (dated April 21)It also links to Rich Johnson's article from Bleeding Cool from last week and the original report of an incident in 2012. Janelle Asselin's name should be familiar to those of us from CBR.
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Post by Action Ace on Apr 28, 2016 22:38:40 GMT -5
And STILL my pleas for the firing of Bob Harras and Eddie Berganza go unheard. Well, this whole thing at least brought the Eddie Berganza thing out in the open as various sources have now clearly named him instead of "an unnamed editor at the Superman office that harrasses women". Maybe they will finally do something about that now? Unfortunately, he's probably going to get a nice big check to go away.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2016 7:48:15 GMT -5
Some of you guys truly have NO IDEA what it is like for victims of sexual harassment/assault. How hard it is to FINALLY come forth. And then when you finally do work up the courage, after you have wandered through ALLLLLL the wondering if you did something to cause it (because NO ONE victim blames a victim more than the victim her/himself), and then appropriate punishment RARELY is the end result. We haven't agreed on many things lately, but you and I are 100% on the same page here. lol. I think you are confused.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Apr 29, 2016 9:11:08 GMT -5
Her's the most recent updated report I could find on this. So it says that incidents were reported by several DC staff. It doesn't state how many incidents and not how many people it involves. It could very well be only one person, or ten, there's just no info on that, just that several people approach Management to report what they've heard. It also says that since that seconde incident at a con in 2012 involving what is believed to be Greg Rucka's girlfriend, not one incident has been reported. So four years after that, people start to get outraged? Nowhere does it say that women are forbidden to work with Berganza, unless I missed it. Rucka has said he wouldn't work on WW unless Berganza wasn't involved. That is understandable because of their history, yet, he still is working for DC, with women. The guy was demoted, forbidden to attend cons, put on probabtion, appologized and had to go into therapy. What more do you want?! Him to get fired with no chance to redeem himself, with no regards to the specifics of the situation? Well, that's not how adults behave, unless you count Ted Cruz as one. And attempting to help your long time employees (Berganza has been with DC since 1992) isn't condoning his misbehaviour. If his misbehaviour went on, they would have taken more drastic measures certainly, but... no a single incident reported since that infamous pathetic attempt of a kiss at that con in 2012. Over at Dark Horse, Scott Allie did way worse and still works for the company, even writing some of its best selling house titles. He was also demoted, and expressed regrets. He amongst ohter things drunkly sexually assaulted James Robinson. DC and Dark Horse are private companies with many women in their staff, but more then anything, many staff. Many people equals more potential for problems, no company of more then 20 people I know of doesn't experience those. So it comes down to how you view people with this kind of problems : unredeemable or redeemable. Neither Allie or Berganza are in public offices. If they were, htat would be a different problem since they would be representing the people, "us". In their current job, this is absolutly not the case. At best they represent the company, but to the better of my knowledge, Berganza hasnever been that much of a public face for DC, even before the incidents. At the same time, Marvel's CEO is giving millions of dollars to Trump and harrssing his neighbours for petty reasons. Are we gonna boycott Marvel comics because of that? THe comics themselves already give us plenty of reasons to do so
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2016 9:45:39 GMT -5
This excusing of sexual harassers, and their harassment, is getting quite sickening.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Apr 29, 2016 10:55:29 GMT -5
In reply to Arthur- I have 3 points to make
1- A member of management in a corporation, such as an editor, a person who had workers reporting to them, is held to the highest standards. He represents the company. He's a role model. He is the one who is responsible for the behavior of his area. I've worked in corporations, I've had management positions, that's how it is. This incident would be grounds for dismissal. By barring women to work under his jurisdiction only punishes women by limiting positions in the company they can be employed. This is not a case of drug or alcohol rehab where the offender only hurt himself and rehab is a possible answer. This was impinging on the rights of other people. Not acceptable
2-Stick to this subject. Don't obfuscate this with others. You can talk about Donald Trump or Joe Blow elsewhere. Unless you would like to bring up your own personal experience
3-I find it ironic that you are defending this type of behavior. Ironic enough, that on this subject, your opinion to me is meaningless
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 29, 2016 12:23:41 GMT -5
Well, this whole thing at least brought the Eddie Berganza thing out in the open as various sources have now clearly named him instead of "an unnamed editor at the Superman office that harrasses women". Maybe they will finally do something about that now? Unfortunately, he's probably going to get a nice big check to go away. Knowing the way corporations work nowadays, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. The higher-ups play by their own set of rules; they wouldn't punish one of their own if they know that somehow it might affect their own agenda down the line. Minimum wage workers, though? They'd have been hung to dry a long while ago.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2016 17:36:29 GMT -5
In reply to Arthur- I have 3 points to make 1- A member of management in a corporation, such as an editor, a person who had workers reporting to them, is held to the highest standards. He represents the company. He's a role model. He is the one who is responsible for the behavior of his area. I've worked in corporations, I've had management positions, that's how it is. This incident would be grounds for dismissal. By barring women to work under his jurisdiction only punishes women by limiting positions in the company they can be employed. This is not a case of drug or alcohol rehab where the offender only hurt himself and rehab is a possible answer. This was impinging on the rights of other people. Not acceptable 2-Stick to this subject. Don't obfuscate this with others. You can talk about Donald Trump or Joe Blow elsewhere. Unless you would like to bring up your own personal experience 3-I find it ironic that you are defending this type of behavior. Ironic enough, that on this subject, your opinion to me is meaningless Yesssssssssssssssss.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 29, 2016 20:49:10 GMT -5
Over at Dark Horse, Scott Allie did way worse and still works for the company, even writing some of its best selling house titles. He was also demoted, and expressed regrets. He amongst ohter things drunkly sexually assaulted James Robinson. From the article linked above:
As I wrote in the above piece with regard to the Dark Horse situation, we’re a grown up industry now with adults in charge and HR departments. Dark Horse publicly acknowledged the problems they had and have tried to move on while doing better. DC’s having a rough day with this because they promoted someone with a known history of harassment. That was another ticking time bomb. Maybe DC should acknowledge some of the past mistakes and make a statement about what is and what isn’t tolerated there.
The difference is that DC's response is"LALALALALALALALALALALA I can't hear you!"
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Apr 30, 2016 0:03:33 GMT -5
In reply to Arthur- I have 3 points to make 1- A member of management in a corporation, such as an editor, a person who had workers reporting to them, is held to the highest standards. He represents the company. He's a role model. He is the one who is responsible for the behavior of his area. I've worked in corporations, I've had management positions, that's how it is. This incident would be grounds for dismissal. By barring women to work under his jurisdiction only punishes women by limiting positions in the company they can be employed. This is not a case of drug or alcohol rehab where the offender only hurt himself and rehab is a possible answer. This was impinging on the rights of other people. Not acceptable 2-Stick to this subject. Don't obfuscate this with others. You can talk about Donald Trump or Joe Blow elsewhere. Unless you would like to bring up your own personal experience 3-I find it ironic that you are defending this type of behavior. Ironic enough, that on this subject, your opinion to me is meaningless 1/ Except it wasn't, read the piece(s) : women weren't bared to work on his juridiction! And I'm not excusing the misbehaviour, far from it, but if you want to read it like that, well, too bad... Of course such behaviour isn't acceptable, and it wasn't (since they made it stop). Does that mean the only solution is to fire the employee? From my experiences no, absolutly not, it all depends on the specifics, which again, none of us here are privy to. I'm just trying to understand what is going on before pointing fingers, since "something" has happened, something we don't even know consists of FCS. And that was 4 years ago. The guy is still with the company, that is a fact, and he is working with women, also a fact. This whole affair was brougt to light last summer by a gossip site not privy to the details, just some, and that was 5 and 3 years after the misconducts happened, so excuse me for finding all this angry outside outrage difficult to fully support. 2/ I really was. Putting things in perspective is part of discussion. 3/ I find it sad that for some reason, you decide to dismiss opinions on this, one that was argumented but just happened to be slightly different than yours : I'm not defending this kind of behaviour! I just go by the simple old rule that you don't comdemn someone until you have all the facts, especially if you are unrelated to the matter. The article from The Beat was quite good in that regard. Asselin might have an unrelated personnal beef with Berganza, who knows. Maybe she doesn't, but when all the info you get is solely coming from one side, it's not info. Some here are IMHO a little quick on the trigger, and seem to have decided it's fine to be jury and prosecutor. When people start to judge without facts, that's the start of mob mentality.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 30, 2016 6:24:41 GMT -5
This thread will now resume a mature and non-confrontational tone, or it will be locked.
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