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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 28, 2016 15:53:52 GMT -5
(Looks like Cei-U has been bitten by the Fletcher Hanks bug! No one is safe!)
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Apr 28, 2016 16:21:10 GMT -5
For me its Neal Adams. Granted, some Infantino covers had the darker imagery towards the end of the 60's but IMO, Neal Adams took hold of the art and made Batman the darker character that I think most people prefer. Kaluta continued it with equally impressive covers into the mid 70's (even though I never loved how the backup stories took away from the full use of the cover space on the Detective issues when his art started.
Similary in the Batman title, the tide turned around #217, as was previously posted. Adams had some earlier covers that were still a bit corny (a Tiger Batman one I believe was in there) but you could see the transition in the art as it progressed. Between #217-255 are some of the best Batman covers of all time IMO. After #255, the books got bigger and the covers were a mix of showing an image for the main story as well as for the backups (they were paneled and again, I am not a huge fan of this on a cover).
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Post by Prince Hal on Apr 28, 2016 16:28:28 GMT -5
For me its Neal Adams. Granted, some Infantino covers had the darker imagery towards the end of the 60's but IMO, Neal Adams took hold of the art and made Batman the darker character that I think most people prefer. Kaluta continued it with equally impressive covers into the mid 70's (even though I never loved how the backup stories took away from the full use of the cover space on the Detective issues when his art started. Similary in the Batman title, the tide turned around #217, as was previously posted. Adams had some earlier covers that were still a bit corny (a Tiger Batman one I believe was in there) but you could see the transition in the art as it progressed. Between #217-255 are some of the best Batman covers of all time IMO. After #255, the books got bigger and the covers were a mix of showing an image for the main story as well as for the backups (they were paneled and again, I am not a huge fan of this on a cover). With you on all of this except that the tiger cover was Irv Novick's work.  |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 28, 2016 16:44:46 GMT -5
For me its Neal Adams. Granted, some Infantino covers had the darker imagery towards the end of the 60's but IMO, Neal Adams took hold of the art and made Batman the darker character that I think most people prefer. Kaluta continued it with equally impressive covers into the mid 70's (even though I never loved how the backup stories took away from the full use of the cover space on the Detective issues when his art started. Agreed, and note that the first Neal Adams Batman interiors were on Brave and the Bold # 79, from 1968. The Neal Adams Brave and the Bold (he did interiors for over a year) were the first to have Batman operate primarily at night, which is a pretty clear line of demarcation. Although none of this was as good as the Bill Finger Batman, some really smart kids comics informed by philososphy, surrealism and (as in the case of the Joker) German Expressionism*. The Gotham City about to slide into surrealism is my favorite interpretation and, honestly, everything until Frank Miller** seemed a little dumb by comparison. * Everyone involved denies that the Joker was influenced by the Man Who Laughs. ** I know you guys are down on Miller because his version of the character isn't exactly what you imagine in your heads, but can't he get some credit for being leagues above every other American creator in mainstream comics in inventive storytelling and pure formal understanding of the medium?* * Haney/Aparo on Brave and the Bold excepted, of course. And I kind of liked some of the Doug Monech stuff in the early '80s. He seemed closest to the Bill Finger vibe, but with very '70s Marvel-ish storytelling. |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Apr 28, 2016 17:09:53 GMT -5
Thanks for correcting me  I always thought it looked too campy for Adams and since it falls in the midst of some of his earlier Batman work, I always assumed it was him. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 28, 2016 17:19:14 GMT -5
Thanks for correcting me I always thought it looked too campy for Adams and since it falls in the midst of some of his earlier Batman work, I always assumed it was him. There's still quite a bit of Infantino in the earliest Adams Brave and the Bolds - It's certainly arguable that he didn't become the gothy creature of the night until the early '70s. |
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Post by Red Oak Kid on Apr 28, 2016 17:39:52 GMT -5
No time for a long comment but I wanted to let Mech know that the "Dark Knight" label actually came before "Caped Crusader," being coined by co-creator Bill Finger way back in Detective #45 (November 1940), three issues before the first use of "Dynamic Duo" and several years before that of "Caped Crusader" (can't pin its first use down to a specific issues as I haven't finished my analysis of Golden Age Batman stories yet but the phrase hadn't appeared as of the end of '42). Cei-U! I summon the esoterica! And here I was waiting for you to back me up on the whole Batman #217 thing  And I was waiting for him to back me up on the Camp thing. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Apr 28, 2016 17:59:53 GMT -5
Here's a short write-up on the Batman story in Detective Comics #385: "Die Small, Die Big!"Cover by Neal Adams. Story by Frank Robbins. Art by Bob Brown. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Apr 28, 2016 18:41:32 GMT -5
Thanks for correcting me I always thought it looked too campy for Adams and since it falls in the midst of some of his earlier Batman work, I always assumed it was him. Oh, sure. I had just been looking through Batman covers, so I had just seen it. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Apr 28, 2016 18:45:06 GMT -5
Thanks for correcting me I always thought it looked too campy for Adams and since it falls in the midst of some of his earlier Batman work, I always assumed it was him. There's still quite a bit of Infantino in the earliest Adams Brave and the Bolds - It's certainly arguable that he didn't become the gothy creature of the night until the early '70s. Yes, you notice that Adams was keeping Batman's ears shorter then, for instance. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Apr 28, 2016 22:54:30 GMT -5
Holy No. 2! In the interests of fairness, let me post this campy story with a cover that's up there with the Flash feeling as if he's being turned into a puppet. Batman 188:   |
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Post by MDG on Apr 29, 2016 8:10:56 GMT -5
Here's a short write-up on the Batman story in Detective Comics #385: "Die Small, Die Big!"Cover by Neal Adams. Story by Frank Robbins. Art by Bob Brown. Yeah, I give Robbins and Brown--as well as Irv Novick (and maybe Dick Giordano)--as much credit as O'Neill and Adams in trying to bring Batman back to his roots. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Apr 29, 2016 9:04:20 GMT -5
Here's a short write-up on the Batman story in Detective Comics #385: "Die Small, Die Big!"Cover by Neal Adams. Story by Frank Robbins. Art by Bob Brown. Yeah, I give Robbins and Brown--as well as Irv Novick (and maybe Dick Giordano)--as much credit as O'Neill and Adams in trying to bring Batman back to his roots. The bit of time I got to scan this thread again, and educate myself as best I could, I was going to comment that it seems Batman books, prior to the Adam West TV show era, were serious in their delivery. Again, having not read anything prior to #217 (which I think is my oldest Batman, except maybe stories I mentioned in the two TPB of Greatest Stories Ever Told I have) and not much around that either. So I was already under the impression that most of the whole series prior was in the "camp" category. But at least the covers, of a lot of those earlier Batman issues give the impression the contents are of a serious note. Consider...   Now these look interesting. Hopefully I can find a color TPB of them. Hoosier mention the Batman in the 60's and 70's, so I might check those. Cause I didn't realize that #189 was Scarecrow's first appearance and it's a bit expensive. Edit: Are there any TPB that reprint either Batman or Detective chronologically rather than random issues like the aforementioned Batman in the 60's and 70's that I just checked out? Edit2: Now that I got my ipod charged I can check my application. The oldest Detective I have is #374 from 1968. The oldest Batman I have is indeed #217 followed by #227 and #265 before my main collection starts with #300. That Crazy Quilt issue I was trying to think of was Detective #535 from 1984, so not as old as I thought it was. But dang I still like the cover.  |
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Post by Randle-El on Apr 29, 2016 9:07:55 GMT -5
** I know you guys are down on Miller because his version of the character isn't exactly what you imagine in your heads, but can't he get some credit for being leagues above every other American creator in mainstream comics in inventive storytelling and pure formal understanding of the medium?* I'm actually a huge, huge fan of Miller's run(s) on Daredevil, and the Wolverine mini-series he did with Claremont is still one of my favorite stories. And I've written in other threads that it's not even Miller's take on Batman generally that I dislike, as I enjoyed Year One tremendously. But Year One, while dark and gritty, doesn't come anywhere near the cynicism and bleakness of DKR. |
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Post by MDG on Apr 29, 2016 9:33:12 GMT -5
Edit: Are there any TPB that reprint either Batman or Detective chronologically rather than random issues like the aforementioned Batman in the 60's and 70's that I just checked out? There are six or so volumes of Showcase Presents that cover from the New Look to early Bronze Age. Each volume reprints both Detective and Batman stories. Unfortunately, they're OOP, so may be expensive and/or hard to find. Luckily, my library has them. |
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I always thought it looked too campy for Adams and since it falls in the midst of some of his earlier Batman work, I always assumed it was him. 
