|
Post by String on May 12, 2016 12:22:37 GMT -5
It seems like a Catch-22. Fanboys cry for something 'new and different' or more from this particular character or team but when the Big Two produce something along those lines, they don't support it nor buy it enough (for whatever reason) for the Big Two to continue publishing it. They cancel it which perpetuates the stigma that the Big Two don't care about anything 'new and different' or about this character or team which leads to the fanboys crying for change which leads to..... I don't blame the Big Two. They're in the business to make money (heck in some cases, Marvel is unabashedly upfront about it) so as long as the fanboys continue to buy the 'mega-events' or mini-reboots, that's what to going to help dominate the racks. But isn't also about what pitches the publishers get from creators about certain properties? They may be interested in publishing a Character X book or Team Y title but haven't seen anything worthwhile (or a sure money seller) from any of the pitches they receive from those creators they seek input from about them. Fans have to understand the wallet speaks louder than anything they say or post. If they don't vote with their wallet nothing will change. This means not buying series you are not enjoying (even if it means <gasp> breaking your run of every issue of those characters back to 1963)-if you keep buying crap, they'll keep making crap to sell even if you bitch and moan about how bad it is and how you want something else, if you keep buying it you are offering no incentive to change. If you don't like what a publisher is offering, stop buying it. And buy the things you believe deserve support (even if they are not books that "matter" the way the term is used today). Buying habits shape the market because the market is so small. -M Case in point - When Bendis was writing UXM for the past 3-4 years, during that time, I kept reading various rants and negative opinions on his handling of the characters and the stories. When I inquired about why continue to buy the title if you aren't enjoying it, the response was about the same: lifelong X-fan who wanted to continue reading the book. Which makes no sense to me at all. At nearly 4 bucks a pop now, I expect a fair amount of enjoyment from what I purchase. If I'm not enjoying what I'm reading then I'm wasting my time and money. For this reason, I have no complete runs of anything for I'm content to wait till a creative change occurs on a title that signals a new direction (which you know is going to happen at some point given the industry today). It reminds me of hearing about fans who would buy concert tickets to see bands they hate just to heckle them. That's pointless. You're supporting the very thing you claim to hate.
|
|
|
Post by Paste Pot Paul on May 14, 2016 9:24:53 GMT -5
I read way too much superhero comics and the thing I've recently realised is that for the most part what I enjoy the most is the characterisations and interactions. These are what keep me coming back, way more than the umpteenth fight with Thanos/Darkseid/Joker/etc etc. I came to the conclusion that most of my favourite books were due to how I connected with the hero/ine, how their "voice" spoke to me, rather than one in a long list of endless slugfests Ive waded through. Many of the modern books I enjoy like, Spiderwoman for example, are solely because of the quirky characters. Sure now and then there will be a well drawn battle, but they've started to blend in together, so I'll take a well written slanging match any day over a fist fight. However it is hard to let go of people Ive been reading about for 40 odd years, no matter how awful the Avengers books are currently, no matter how little I care for the current X-Men stories, or how boring the Inhumans books are, that personal history makes parting bloody hard. Gunna do it though, cos really they are shit, and theres so much better out there to replace them with.
|
|
|
Post by Nowhere Man on May 15, 2016 12:37:33 GMT -5
I agree that the classic characterizations are what appeals to me the most (particularly Marvel of the 60's thru the 80's) but I'm also a big fan of exotic locals, far out cosmic concepts and good old, well done, adventure. The actual fighting isn't as interesting to me as it was in my younger days, but a lot of that has to do with the lack of imagination of most artists. John Byrne and George Perez weren't just great artists, they were fantastic at elevating the superhero slug-fest to an art-form. Byrne was particularly skilled at this.
Superheroes demand idealization if they're going to work, not the Watchmen approach. I've detected a lot of anxiety from Marvel and DC ever since the early 2000's in regards to what they want the comics to be. It's no surprise that the DCAU and most of the Marvel films have succeeded in capturing the timeless appeal of the characters far better than most of the modern comics.
|
|
|
Post by tingramretro on May 15, 2016 14:56:39 GMT -5
That's why I'm of the opinion that comics might want to consider "branching out" beyond the direct market and bookstores, because it was incredibly nearsighted of them to stop pushing their products at newstands and grocery store. The newsstands and grocery stores didn't want them.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2016 15:51:53 GMT -5
That's why I'm of the opinion that comics might want to consider "branching out" beyond the direct market and bookstores, because it was incredibly nearsighted of them to stop pushing their products at newstands and grocery store. The newsstands and grocery stores didn't want them. The cover price at the time did not make the books profitable for the space they took up on the stands plus the added labor costs of havig to sort and display them each month, then sort through what didn't sell each month, strip it down and send it back for credit. It was labor intensive to carry them at a time when companies were looking to scale back labor costs and the cover price didn't allow enough of a margin for the newsstands and other non-comic shops to carry the product. It was an ongoing struggle between publishers and vendors. It was in part behind DC experimenting with formats and $1 books through the 70s and 80s trying to find a format and price point that enticed the vendors into carrying the products. Places like 7-11 were phasing out comics, not because Marvel & DC weren't offering them, but because they could make more money using the space for other products like candy, snacks, sodas etc. that sold more units and had a higher profit margin, and were less labor intensive to stock and carry. Traditional magazines were going for larger formats and higher price points to keep their space on the newsstands at the time, but places like 7-11 were also scaling back on magazines at the time (though bookstores and such still carried a wider line of magazines). The traditional news vendor had all but disappeared int he States except in places like NYC with large metropolitan populations, but in smaller cities with larger commuted work-forces rather than native work-forces, those newsstands disappeared, downsized, and carried far less range of products. It would have required comics publishers adapting price, format and frequency of publication to adapt to the needs of the newsstand vendors to keep books there, something they were unwilling to do then, and are still unwilling to do now even tough that format is a dinosaur in the marketplace these days. Newsstands were becoming far more selective in what they carried, going for efficiency to maximize profits, traditional comic formats weren't working for them. Comic publishers gave up trying to work on them because change would have been expensive and cause short term losses, so they decided to focus on the direct market which allowed them to retain their business model and not have to make those expenditures and maintain the status quo for the short term. However, in the long term it has turned out to be a disastrous decision because they lost the feeder sources of new readers. It took a couple of decades for the impact of that to be felt as sales number in the direct market thrived in the short term but then fell off massively beginning in the mod-late 90s until we reach the situation we are at today. As I see it though, the industry didn't learn their lesson either, because now they are doubling down trying to maintain the status quo with the direct market again (still) rather than looking for ways to adapt/change to regain access tot he new reader pool hoping if they do the same thing this time they will get different results-and we all know how well that works. They are focused on maintaining the short term viability of what they are already doing instead of planning long term on how to grow the industry-largely because they have to answer to suits for quarterly earnings reports and long term planning doesn't sell well there, but also because I am not sure any of them have the publishing (rather than marketing) experience and vision to develop a long term plan for change that could work. So yes, they gave up on the newsstands but because the newsstands were asking for changes the industry was not willing to make then...or now it seems. -M
|
|
|
Post by earl on May 15, 2016 17:35:15 GMT -5
Eh...I don't doubt with publishing well over 100 titles a month between DC and Marvel that there are some super hero comics worth reading. Thing is that it is way too expensive to try and follow month to month - too many titles with the main characters and the stories are just too long and contrived. Obviously, there are some exceptions, but I think DC and Marvel had a good run in the past decade and both now are on a cold streak with the big franchises.
To me, i'll just wait and pick up the stuff that seems to have been successful after the fact now via trade, compilation or back issue. To be honest, I'd rather spend my money on old super hero comics as that's the stuff I really like, if I'm true to myself.
Personally, I think I'd rather read more crime, science fiction or historical comics myself which is what my pull list reflects. I already got boodles of super hero comics and would almost rather re-read old 80s Avengers or Spider-man than really care what current writers are doing. I still try some with Batman, but on average, I think some those comics have been better done than other major characters even with some of the odd editorial choices.
|
|