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Post by Spike-X on May 21, 2016 3:18:18 GMT -5
Zack Snyder.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 21, 2016 5:42:31 GMT -5
Didn't Lobo beat Superman ?
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Post by Prince Hal on May 21, 2016 8:33:42 GMT -5
"Death of Superman" against Doomsday in the early 90's and "Muhammad Ali vs Superman" from the mid-late 70's are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head. Not a huge Superman fan. Oddly enough, the only time I actually enjoyed the character was during John Byrne's run (which I know a lot of die hard Supes fans despise). I personally liked a more human, less powerful Superman. The way I always looked at it, you have to make this guy vulnerable in some way, otherwise...what the hell is the point in reading this every month? He's just going to smack the hell out of the bad guys, save the world and fly off into the sunset with a smile on his face every issue. Granted this is what a lot of superheroes do, but at least the outcome isn't totally set in stone before the fight actually happens. I get that tons of people adore the character, but Byrne was the only guy who could make him somewhat relatable IMO. Couldn't agree more. A story has to have real drama in order to be interesting, to me, and there's no real drama if the lead character is invulnerable and unbeatable. Then again, I know it might sound a bit odd coming from a superhero fan, but the fights and super feats are by far the least interesting thing to me, most of the time. Doesn't sound odd at all, but at the same time, it was Superman's apparent omniscience that often made his adventures so intriguing, as the writers told stories in which Superman's powers were not enough to save the day, and he instead had to rely on his wits and courage to survive. Confronted by magic or the supernatural, stranded beneath a red (or other non-yellow) sun, in situations where he could not use his powers openly lest he endanger his friends or family, and especially when he faced his own neuroses -- his guilt over his biological parents' deaths, his longings for Krypton and a more typical life, his guilt over being unable to save the Kents' lives, even the nagging feeling that he just couldn't reform Lex Luthor -- Superman constantly rose to the occasion. The writers who had steadily increased Superman's powers also usually rose to the challenge they'd created, and in doing so showed us the very human side of Superman. Superman is far from unbeatable. In many of the best of his stories, for all of his heroics, he cannot overcome the loneliness and "separateness" he feels from the billions whose existence he has saved countless times. NB: I refer to the Superman I knew. Any changes that have occurred in the last 25 ears or so to the mythos I've described above are, I'm afraid, beyond my ken. |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 21, 2016 8:45:09 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more. A story has to have real drama in order to be interesting, to me, and there's no real drama if the lead character is invulnerable and unbeatable. Then again, I know it might sound a bit odd coming from a superhero fan, but the fights and super feats are by far the least interesting thing to me, most of the time. Doesn't sound odd at all, but at the same time, it was Superman's apparent omniscience that often made his adventures so intriguing, as the writers told stories in which Superman's powers were not enough to save the day, and he instead had to rely on his wits and courage to survive. Confronted by magic or the supernatural, stranded beneath a red (or other non-yellow) sun, in situations where he could not use his powers openly lest he endanger his friends or family, and especially when he faced his own neuroses -- his guilt over his biological parents' deaths, his longings for Krypton and a more typical life, his guilt over being unable to save the Kents' lives, even the nagging feeling that he just couldn't reform Lex Luthor -- Superman constantly rose to the occasion. The writers who had steadily increased Superman's powers also usually rose to the challenge they'd created, and in doing so showed us the very human side of Superman. Superman is far from unbeatable. In many of the best of his stories, for all of his heroics, he cannot overcome the loneliness and "separateness" he feels from the billions whose existence he has saved countless times. NB: I refer to the Superman I knew. Any changes that have occurred in the last 25 ears or so to the mythos I've described above are, I'm afraid, beyond my ken. Yes, they seem to change Superman's powers every few years. |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 21, 2016 8:46:17 GMT -5
I love Superman from all the various eras. I guess it depends on what the writer does with him.
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Post by Prince Hal on May 21, 2016 11:21:21 GMT -5
Yes, they seem to change Superman's powers every few years. Oh, you're absolutely right, Icc (super-ventriloquism, anybody?), and that was why the radio writers dreamed up Kryptonite, because Suoerman just kept getting more and more formidable. But, necessity is Frank Zappa and successive writers had to paint themselves out of the Kryptonite corner, and often did so quite artfully. |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 21, 2016 16:21:58 GMT -5
Yes, they seem to change Superman's powers every few years. Oh, you're absolutely right, Icc (super-ventriloquism, anybody?), and that was why the radio writers dreamed up Kryptonite, because Suoerman just kept getting more and more formidable. But, necessity is Frank Zappa and successive writers had to paint themselves out of the Kryptonite corner, and often did so quite artfully. Is that an old saying like 23 skiddu ?  |
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Post by Warmonger on May 21, 2016 16:54:59 GMT -5
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Post by dupersuper on May 26, 2016 3:14:17 GMT -5
Didn't Lobo beat Superman ? He came close while Supes was possessed by The Eradicator (Superman had to holographically fake his death), and Lobo once dreamed he beat him, but any other time I've read/seen them fight, Superman wins handily.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 26, 2016 5:14:47 GMT -5
Didn't Lobo beat Superman ? He came close while Supes was possessed by The Eradicator (Superman had to holographically fake his death), and Lobo once dreamed he beat him, but any other time I've read/seen them fight, Superman wins handily.
Nice. Back in the day, they wrote Lobo as equal or superior to Superman. |
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 6:26:26 GMT -5
I just can't stand Lobo - I find this character too annoying and bizarre and having said that I never really liked him in the first place either!
That's my 2 cents worth!
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Post by zaku on May 27, 2016 4:58:03 GMT -5
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Post by DubipR on May 31, 2016 8:35:27 GMT -5
Saleswise, Captain Marvel did in the 40s.  |
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