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Post by sabongero on Aug 30, 2017 17:31:57 GMT -5
Silver Surfer #1 was a tremendous retcon of the character. What we saw in the pages of Fantastic Four prior to this was Jack Kirby's Silver Surfer. What we get here is Stan Lee's Silver Surfer. I found Kirby's more complex and fascinating, though I still enjoyed Lee's run immensely. Okay, so this must be what that brief discussion was on the movie Crimson Tide, where the Executive Officer played by Denzel Washington was going back and forth with one of the Radioman petty officer second class, about the Jack Kirby Silver Surfer being different than the Stan Lee Silver Surfer. I thought it was just in the illustration. If I may ask, what exactly is the difference between the Stan Lee Silver Surfer and the Jack Kirby Silver Surfer? |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,878
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Post by shaxper on Aug 30, 2017 17:38:08 GMT -5
Silver Surfer #1 was a tremendous retcon of the character. What we saw in the pages of Fantastic Four prior to this was Jack Kirby's Silver Surfer. What we get here is Stan Lee's Silver Surfer. I found Kirby's more complex and fascinating, though I still enjoyed Lee's run immensely. Okay, so this must be what that brief discussion was on the movie Crimson Tide, where the Executive Officer played by Denzel Washington was going back and forth with one of the Radioman petty officer second class, about the Jack Kirby Silver Surfer being different than the Stan Lee Silver Surfer. I thought it was just in the illustration. If I may ask, what exactly is the difference between the Stan Lee Silver Surfer and the Jack Kirby Silver Surfer? Pre-Silver Surfer #1, he was the loyal herald of Galactus who seemed to like his job and genuinely regretted turning on his master even though he knew it was the right thing to do. It made both SS and Galactus into truly complex characters. Galactus wasn't evil; he was just amorale, and Silver Surfer was essentially the cosmic equivalent of a whistleblower, encountering all the self-doubt and regret that go along with such a complex decision. Lee's Silver Surfer is far more simple -- he lost his home-world and the woman he loves in a bargain to save them. Galactus was bad and Silver Surfer served him unwillingly. However, I enjoyed Lee's martyr analogies, even when they utterly lacked subtlety. |
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Post by sabongero on Aug 30, 2017 18:00:48 GMT -5
Okay, so this must be what that brief discussion was on the movie Crimson Tide, where the Executive Officer played by Denzel Washington was going back and forth with one of the Radioman petty officer second class, about the Jack Kirby Silver Surfer being different than the Stan Lee Silver Surfer. I thought it was just in the illustration. If I may ask, what exactly is the difference between the Stan Lee Silver Surfer and the Jack Kirby Silver Surfer? Pre-Silver Surfer #1, he was the loyal herald of Galactus who seemed to like his job and genuinely regretted turning on his master even though he knew it was the right thing to do. It made both SS and Galactus into truly complex characters. Galactus wasn't evil; he was just amorale, and Silver Surfer was essentially the cosmic equivalent of a whistleblower, encountering all the self-doubt and regret that go along with such a complex decision. Lee's Silver Surfer is far more simple -- he lost his home-world and the woman he loves in a bargain to save them. Galactus was bad and Silver Surfer served him unwillingly. However, I enjoyed Lee's martyr analogies, even when they utterly lacked subtlety. I should be encountering that Silver Surfer with the martyr complex pretty soon as I read through the series. |
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Post by kirby101 on Aug 30, 2017 18:37:57 GMT -5
Kirby wanted the Surfer to just be a creation of Galactus who found a new humanity in the pages of the FF.
Lee gave us a tragic hero who gave up his humanity to save his planet and then gave up his freedom to save Earth.
And then finds it is a planet that fears and hates him.
I don't know which I prefer, but as a young teenager the Lee/Buscema had great resonance for me. The tragic, "whiny" hero was more "human" through Lee/Buscema.
Whatever one thinks those issues of SS were some of the best the late Silver Age Marvel put out. Especially the double size early ones. Buscema was never better.
I have the Artist Edition of Buscema's Silver Surfer and it is a treasure.
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Post by berkley on Aug 31, 2017 0:17:21 GMT -5
It's hard to know exactly what Kirby's Surfer would have been like because even in the FF it was filtered through Stan's script. But of course it's no trouble to see exactly what Stan's Surfer was all about since we saw and read the pure, unadulterated Stan Lee Surfer in the series drawn so beautifully by John Buscema. Even though Stan's sincerity shines through, I don't think it's his best work - the martyrdom and sadness of exile felt repetitive and self-pitying at times and while Stan was a great story-teller I don't think he was the kind of original, creative force Kirby was. Perhaps his closeness to the project actually got in his way a bit on the Surfer series and prevented his usually reliable instincts from taking over. Also, he was never a real science fiction guy the way Kirby was, which would have helped him on a series like this.
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Post by kirby101 on Aug 31, 2017 7:48:58 GMT -5
And of course Kirby took over with #18, which was unfortunately the title's last issue. So, we never found out what Kirby's Surfer would have become.
(Unless you count the '76 GN)
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Post by sabongero on Aug 31, 2017 16:40:12 GMT -5
And of course Kirby took over with #18, which was unfortunately the title's last issue. So, we never found out what Kirby's Surfer would have become. (Unless you count the '76 GN) Too bad the original series didn't get stretched for another several issues. I would have loved to have seen those Kirby illustrated materials in the Silver Surfer series. |
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Post by kirby101 on Aug 31, 2017 18:25:54 GMT -5
And of course Kirby took over with #18, which was unfortunately the title's last issue. So, we never found out what Kirby's Surfer would have become. (Unless you count the '76 GN) Too bad the original series didn't get stretched for another several issues. I would have loved to have seen those Kirby illustrated materials in the Silver Surfer series. it was right when Kirby left Marvel, so there might not have been any more Kirby SS issues even if the series went on. I hated that Buscema was off the title at the time and bristled at the Kirby work, but looking back the Kirby/Trimpe art in that issue was pretty sweet. |
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Post by berkley on Aug 31, 2017 20:16:41 GMT -5
Too bad the original series didn't get stretched for another several issues. I would have loved to have seen those Kirby illustrated materials in the Silver Surfer series. it was right when Kirby left Marvel, so there might not have been any more Kirby SS issues even if the series went on. Exactly. I think Kirby had already shut down creatively at this point of his first stint at Marvel and had no intention of giving away any more ideas to them. |
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Post by sabongero on Sept 26, 2017 19:21:52 GMT -5
Reviewing Dr. Strange stories only in Strange Tales series:  Strange Tales #110"Dr. Strange Master of Black Magic!" 0.12 USD @ July 1963 Writer: Stan Lee Illustrator: Steve Ditko Inker: Steve Ditko Letterer: Terry Szenics Synopsis: We join the story where a man is having trouble sleeping as he has recurring nightmares. He heard about Dr. Strange, and sought his help. Upon arriving in Dr. Strange's home in Greenwich Village, New York, he is greeted by Dr. Strange's servant. And brooding figure of Dr. Strange materialized in the stranger's presence. He sought Dr. Strange's help regarding his nightmares. Dr. Strange told him to go home and he will help him by entering his dreams that night. After the stranger left, Dr. Strange meditate and his astral form departed his physical body and unrestricted by time and space made his way to a hidden temple in Asia, and his astral form spoke with his Master. Dr. Strange's Master heeded he be careful and if danger should threaten, for him to use his magic amulet. Later that night, Dr. Strange is in the stranger's bedroom, and as he fell asleep and entered the dream state, Dr. Strange meditated and his astral form left his physical body and entered the stranger's dream. There, Dr. Strange is met by a dark chained hooded character who is known as "the symbol of evil." This character told Dr. Strange the reason why the stranger is having nightmares, because he has done many evil deeds which is bothering his psyche. Also, a black figure with ghost white hair riding a black horse arrived. It is Dr. Strange's ancient enemy, Nightmare. He is threatened. Just then the stranger woke up and scared that an unconsciously meditating Dr. Strange found out about his evil deeds went to get his gun to kill Dr. Strange. in the dreamland, Nightmare gloats as he tells the astral form of Dr. Strange to watch and look in the physical world as Dr. Strange's physical body is about to get killed from the stranger with the gun. Dr. Strange, helpless, mentally sent a message of help to his Master, who reciprocated, by activating Dr. Strange's amulet that is hanging on his neck. It opened up to an eye, and shot a blinding hypnotic ray to the stranger who was suddenly frozen in his tracks. Taking advantage of a distracted Nightmare, Dr. Strange's astral form escaped the dreamworld before Nightmare can stop him, and he rejoined his physical form. Dr. Strange then confronted the strange, who wished he never came to Dr. Strange for help, and that he will now confess his crime of robbing people in business. Dr. Strange told him to do so, as it is the only way he can ever get some peaceful sleep ever again. Comments: It's an interesting debut for Dr. Strange. So far, Wong, the Ancient One, and the Eye of Agamotto do not have names at this juncture in time. Also, Dr. Strange's costume lacked the red cape and his eyes are eternally closed in all his panel appearances. Also, his orange gloved hands have black sunspots in them in the forearm area. It is an interesting story to introduce Dr. Strange and see what he is capable of, and a great introductory to his supporting cast as well. |
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Post by Rob Allen on Sept 26, 2017 20:08:48 GMT -5
FYI, Steve Ditko plotted and drew this story on spec. The dialogue is Stan's but the story is all Ditko. If Stan hadn't bought it, it might have ended up in a Charlton mag. Steve knew that Stan was adding backup features to the former anthology books that now had superheroes, so he pitched this one for Strange Tales. Steve called the character "Mr. Strange"; Stan upgraded him to "Doctor", forgetting that he'd named a villain "Dr. Strange" in an Iron Man story.
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Post by sabongero on Sept 27, 2017 18:52:14 GMT -5
FYI, Steve Ditko plotted and drew this story on spec. The dialogue is Stan's but the story is all Ditko. If Stan hadn't bought it, it might have ended up in a Charlton mag. Steve knew that Stan was adding backup features to the former anthology books that now had superheroes, so he pitched this one for Strange Tales. Steve called the character "Mr. Strange"; Stan upgraded him to "Doctor", forgetting that he'd named a villain "Dr. Strange" in an Iron Man story. That would have been interesting. Dr. Strange in Charlton... which would have then been picked up by DC. Imagine Dr. Fate and Dr. Strange in the same DCU, two of the most powerful magical beings in existence. |
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Post by sabongero on Sept 29, 2017 10:37:27 GMT -5
Reviewing Dr. Strange stories only in Strange Tales series:  Strange Tales #111"Face-to-Face with the Magic of Baron Mordo!" 0.12 USD @ August 1963 Writer: Stan Lee Illustrator: Steve Ditko Inker: Steve Ditko Letterer: Terry Szenics Synopsis: Baron Mordo meditates and his astral form leaves his physical body. It made its way to Tibet, to his Master's home. He manipulates the Master's help and places some sort of powder in the Master's drink. The Master drank it, and Baron Mordo's astral form started gloating, that he can now claim all the secret Dark Magic in his Master's home. Meanwhile in New York, Dr. Strange finished some magical practice and was communicating with his Master, but there's no response. Dr. Strange sensed trouble and his astral form leaves his physical body to go to Tibet to check on his Master. He finds the Master in a daze and Baron Mordo's astral form in the vicinity. Baron Mordo's and Dr. Strange's astral form do battle. Baron Mordo was getting the better of their battle, and gloated that Dr. Strange is finished. The Master was trying to convey a message to Dr. Strange which he understood to be the Amulet Dr. Strange is wearing. And he had the Amulet zap the Master with a life giving glow. And then Dr. Strange threatened Baron Mordo that the Amulet can find his physical body anywhere in the world and prevent his astral form from returning to his body. And both are off to the races to get to Mordo's physical body, which Mordo gets to first against a weakened Strange. By going to his physical form, Mordo has lost control of the Master's servant and are now taking care of him, and the Amulet kept Mordo from attacking Strange's astral form long enough for Strange to escape. Baron Mordo swears the next time, that he will be victorious, while Strange knows that the next time they encounter each other that death might be waiting for one of them. Comments: This issue introduces one of Dr. Strange's mortal foes, Baron Mordo. It is a straight forward battle, where Strange and Mordo battle in their astral form. Both were students of their Master, with Mordo becoming villainous and wanting to learn the secret Black Arts that are hidden from him. The Dr. Strange fill in 8-page story is developing into something special. And eventually, Marvel will give the character his own comic book series. |
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Post by sabongero on Oct 4, 2017 19:08:03 GMT -5
Strange Tales #114"The Return of the Omnipotent Baron Mordo" 0.12 USD @ November 1963 Writer: Stan Lee Illustrator: Steve Ditko Inker: Steve Ditko Letterer: Sam Rosen Synopsis: Disguised as a Londoner, Baron Mordo calls Dr. Strange on the phone asking for help knowing Dr. Strange will not refuse anyone in need of help. Upon arriving in London, Dr. Strange finds the person needing help is not in his room but there are two candles giving off vapor. He found himself paralyzed. Then, Mordo emerged gloating he has caught him. The Master knowing Strange's predicament offered to help him, but Strange declined citing he has to prove himself if he is to take over as Master in the future. Strange used his amulet and projected his thought to a woman in a house nearby ordering her to come assist him. She obeyed and arrived in the room he was trapped in and extinguished the candles. Strange told her to leave the premises immediately, but Mordo has arrived and tried to control Strange. Strange was not controlled as it was only his image that was there, until his real body arrived. And the two did battle. Mordo ceased the battle and escaped. Strange said his farewell to the lady and later in Tibet had a talk with the Master telling him eventually Mordo and him will battle again but the outcome is unknown, only, that he is ready. Comments: After being away for two issues, Dr. Strange's tales returns to Strange Tales once more. It's just another rematch between Mordo and Strange. There is just a five page story for this one. Eventually it should expand. |
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Post by sabongero on Oct 5, 2017 18:46:13 GMT -5
Reviewing Dr. Strange stories only in Strange Tales series:  Strange Tales #115"The Origin of Dr. Strange" 0.12 USD @ December 1963 Writer: Stan Lee Illustrator: Steve Ditko Inker: Steve Ditko Letterer: Sam Rosen Synopsis: Dr. Strange traveled to India, and in the Ancient One's abode, asked to be healed by the Ancient One, who refused to do so. Frustrated, Strange advanced on the Ancient One, who held him aloft and magically looked into Strange's mind to learn the truth about him. We find out that Strange is a surgeon. A highly successful and very selfish and arrogant bastard at that, who only cared about himself and money, and no one else, including loved ones. Then he got into a car crash and his surgical hands were severely damaged, and he can never perform another operation ever again. He had too much pride to work for anyone else as an assistant and eventually lost everything and became homeless and living in the city streets. And now the Ancient One knows Dr. Strange's story. Strange prepared to leave as he was not being helped anyway. But the heavy snow outside had the Ancient One preventing Dr. Strange from leaving until it thawed outside, and Ancient One had Strange escorted by his pupil, Mordo. Later that night, Mordo magically sneak attacked the Ancient One, which the older man was prepared for. After days, Strange witnessed Mordo using magic to attack the Ancient One once more. Mordo sees him, and easily puts him in magical restraint. And he is magically released from restraint and is suddenly in front of the Ancient One, as the Ancient One knew it was Mordo attacking him all along. The Ancient One decided to have Dr. Strange as a disciple if the latter would agree. And Strange did. And so it began, years of studying and practice, as Dr. Strange became a master of the black magic. Comments: Again Mordo is the villain of the story. He uttered Dormammu's name here, who will eventually become Dr. Strange's number one nemesis in the future. Also, we get The Master's name in this issue, The Ancient One. Usually Stan Lee and the illustrator would have an origin story at the beginning of the introduction of the character, but it took Steve Ditko and Stan Lee several issues to do so after fans clamored for an origin story for this Marvel character. I have to admit, Dr. Strange was a bastard that is not sympathetic prior to becoming master of the black magic. I am wondering when will the black magic be turned into the mystical arts and be referred so. |
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