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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 7, 2018 17:16:16 GMT -5
You have misidentified the editor. Julius Schwartz, not O'Neil, becomes the editor as of #45, and it is obvious he doesn't give a single damn about it. I consider this run the absolute nadir of both the Titans' long history and Schwartz's career, and the scary part is it gets worse from here. It doesn't help that Rozakis, one of the true hacks of DC's Bronze Age, doesn't seem to have a clue what he's doing, or that the art is by a tired Irv Novick going through the motions. I'll take Haney and Cardy, illogical plots and tin ear for teen slang notwithstanding, over this swill. Cei-U! Not that I have an opinion or anything!  I'm glad you went first. I'm not sure that Rozakis ever wrote anything worth reading except 'Mazing Man and maybe the Answer-Man column. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 7, 2018 21:03:36 GMT -5
You have misidentified the editor. Julius Schwartz, not O'Neil, becomes the editor as of #45 I really need to refrain from writing reviews when home from school with a high fever. Unfortunately, that's often the only time I get to write them 😉 As for Rozakis, the only positives I see at this point are a more Marvel-like attention to continuity and a greater emphasis on Mal. I remember enjoying this run quite a bit when I was younger, but I suspect it was mostly the continuity and interpersonal relationships that were both sorely lacking in the original. The writing itself? Blech. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 8, 2018 0:33:11 GMT -5
Teen Titans #45 (December 1976)  "You Can't Say No to the Angel of Death (or Can You?)" Script: Bob Rozakis Pencils: Irv Novick Inks: Vince Colletta Colors: ? Letters: Ben Oda grade: C- All the limitations of this short-lived relaunch considered, I still feel its single greatest weakness is its thoroughly unappealing covers. There are no super-heroics to be found, nor even exciting action. It just truly looks like a hate crime in progress, no dramatic shadowing implying a deeper meaning nor social message behind it. It's just...unfortunate. I can't imagine kids wanting to read this, and I seriously wonder if adults would have sought it out either. Plus, am I the only one who initially thought that was Dick Grayson wailing on poor Mal?? But this issue has nothing to do with hate crimes, nor even Mal's race. As discussed in last issue's review, Julie Schwartz becomes editor as of this issue and immediately scraps the Guardian direction for Mal. I mean, it's not like that was the entire focus of the debut issue of the relaunch or anything, right? So now, Mal has a distinct (if nebulous) new power, in which he can magically even the odds in any fight just by blowing on Gabriel's horn, but he has no costume, (as of yet) no superhero name, and the means by which he gets this power is absurdly wacky:  No explanation offered for HOW Mal beat the angel of death, by the way. Does the angel of death always offer such fair fights to people? I think we'd have a lot more people alive today, walking around and discussing their competitions with death if that were the case. And what an odd/foreboding restriction on Mal's power: if he ever loses, he dies. Even Superman loses sometimes. Why include that restriction, and how in the world is Rozakis going to continue to work with it? Schwartz's influence over this issue is otherwise hardly felt, other than their being more emphasis on this story happening on Batman's turf. Rozakis is extremely unclear about where the Titans are now located (they have a cave hideout, but we don't know where), but the story takes place in Gotham, one scene specifically occurring at Wayne Manor, and the bad guys logically (if mistakenly) assuming that, because Robin is involved, Batman will soon follow. Meanwhile, Rozakis is continuing to "Marvel"ize the Titans, providing continuity and a recap in that opening panel:  (we have NEVER seen that kind of continuity in the Teen Titans before) and continuing to provide interpersonal conflicts, only now they are less savage and more rooted in compassion:  For the second time in two issues, doors are being slammed and members are threatening to quit, but there is a sense of "team" at the center of it all that wasn't present last issue. Karen Beecher makes her first cameo appearance here, seemingly included just so she can show up as Bumblebee next issue. It's not like she actually plays any part in Mal's drama beyond this moment:  And, speaking of expanding out the cast, Rozakis finds the most ridiculous means of bringing Aqualad back as an active member:  No further explanation needed. The Gabriel Horn brings him there, so now he's going to drop everything and be an active member again, as if he hasn't been inactive since 1969. Which, then, begs the question: why not Lilith? Is Rozakis afraid her precognitive powers will spoil most plot lines, or does he just not want to overload the team with white women? All in all, while I'm truly not sure whether I enjoyed or was thoroughly turned off by Mal having a boxing match with the angel of death, and while I'm not sure how I feel about his new power and lack of identity (even if last issue's new identity was borrowed), I think the one part of this story I unequivocally enjoyed was the bad guys. Instead of just having the team fight some street gang, Rozakis gives The Wreckers a back story and a surprising amount of characterization:  This could have been The Dead End Kids, or Kirby's Newsboy Legion. We were cheering for these kinds of characters three decades earlier, and somehow Rozakis has soured them in a post-Vietnam world (their leader having served there). I would have liked this explored a bit more, but Rozakis isn't interested in depth, so we were lucky to get this much from the villains of the issue. Important Details:- Mal gains Gabriel's horn and surrenders his Guardian identity after only one issue - 1st cameo appearance of Karen Beecher (later Bumblebee) Minor Details:- The Titans HQ at this point is said to be in a cave and is presumably in or near Gotham City. I guess Rozakis isn't too concerned with how Robin can be an active member here and a full time college student in New York at the same time. This was the first Teen Titans issue I ever owned. I was going into the hospital, for a minor operation, and got to pick out a comic, to read. I chose that one. I enjoyed the story then; but, I had little background with the team, other than the Romeo & Juliet riff story, from several years before. My cousin had that one and I got to read it. I knew Robin; and, to a lesser extent, Speedy and Aqualad, from stories with their mentors. This was the ony place I ever saw Wonder Girl, until later. I had no background on Mal. So, for me, it was a fun issue. Not too long after, I was visiting a different cousin and he had the DC Super Stars issue, with the Titans reprints. That gave me my first background history, which appeared in the middle of the book, between the two main stories. he also had the first part of the Titans West storyline, which followed on the Joker's Daughter appearances in Batman Family, which I had been reading. I liked that stuff, too. At that point, I wasn't overly picky. Later years, I reacquired those and they did not age well. Still, they were new characters to me, at the time, which made them exciting. Funny thing, when I was in the hospital, the guy in the next bed (who was an older teen), had an issue of Creepy, so we swapped. Boy was that a change! |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 8, 2018 7:34:56 GMT -5
Not too long after, I was visiting a different cousin and he had the DC Super Stars issue, with the Titans reprints. That gave me my first background history, which appeared in the middle of the book, between the two main stories. he also had the first part of the Titans West storyline, That sounds like a fun introduction to the team. I think he won that competition! |
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Post by beccabear67 on Dec 8, 2018 23:22:27 GMT -5
Getting closer to the only issues I had; #50, and #53 (which was a sort of flashback, maybe fill in, final issue). I never understood issue #50 with all the West Coast and East Coast characters, but it seemed like it might be interesting. As with The defenders I am finding out what the @#$%^&*! was that about around forty years after these were published.
It's been cool to see the start of The Guardian character that is currently James Olsen on the tv Supergirl!
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Post by Cei-U! on Dec 9, 2018 10:05:10 GMT -5
It's been cool to see the start of The Guardian character that is currently James Olsen on the tv Supergirl! Not the start, not even close. The Guardian character has been around since 1942's Star Spangled Comics #7. Created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby to be the adult mentor of their Newsboy Legion, Guardian was revived (as a clone of the murdered original) in the early '70s when Kirby took over the Jimmy Olsen book. It was this version, not the Titans' one, that inspired the TV version.
Cei-U! I summon the backstory!
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Post by beccabear67 on Dec 9, 2018 15:26:08 GMT -5
It's been cool to see the start of The Guardian character that is currently James Olsen on the tv Supergirl! Not the start, not even close. The Guardian character has been around since 1942's Star Spangled Comics #7. Created by Joe Simon and Jack Kirby to be the adult mentor of their Newsboy Legion, Guardian was revived (as a clone of the murdered original) in the early '70s when Kirby took over the Jimmy Olsen book. It was this version, not the Titans' one, that inspired the TV version.
Cei-U! I summon the backstory!
Gosh, I've actually seen that character too, although only in passing. I liked his shield. Kirby really did create almost everything...  |
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Post by tarkintino on Dec 9, 2018 16:04:23 GMT -5
You have misidentified the editor. Julius Schwartz, not O'Neil, becomes the editor as of #45, and it is obvious he doesn't give a single damn about it. I consider this run the absolute nadir of both the Titans' long history and Schwartz's career, and the scary part is it gets worse from here. It doesn't help that Rozakis, one of the true hacks of DC's Bronze Age, doesn't seem to have a clue what he's doing, or that the art is by a tired Irv Novick going through the motions. I'll take Haney and Cardy, illogical plots and tin ear for teen slang notwithstanding, over this swill. Cei-U! Not that I have an opinion or anything! Swill is right. A perfect overview of the Teen Titans volume two. The most notable thing to come from this era of the group was Mego's 7-inch action figures of Wonder Girl, Speedy, Kid Flash and Aqualad (1977). A scale more fitting to "teen" size compared to their 8-inch World's Greatest Super-Heroes line, the individual sidekicks had been desired by kids who were used to seeing them at the side of their mentor characters. In a bit of irony (perhaps the curse of things never going quite right with the Teen Titans concept up to this point in history), the Robin action figure (one of the original four released in 1972, along with Superman, Batman and Aquaman) was scaled at 8-inches, making him visually incompatible with the Teen Titans figures. Examples--  The best thing about Mego's release of the Titans was the packaging featuring Neal Adams' art. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 10, 2018 7:31:10 GMT -5
Examples-- The best thing about Mego's release of the Titans was the packaging featuring Neal Adams' art. Hmmmmm...no Mal figure. On the other hand, no Joker's daughter. I call that a wash. Of course, I'm betting the reason for both is that Mego was looking at the classic lineup and may have even been totally unaware of the relaunched series. These characters are the full line-up from the 1967 cartoon, likely explaining the incompatible Robin figure. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 11, 2018 0:55:05 GMT -5
Must be a different release than what I had. I had Aqualad and there were no flesh-colored leggings; just bare plastic legs, as I recall (like the earlier Robin figure).
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 11, 2018 1:16:02 GMT -5
Must be a different release than what I had. I had Aqualad and there were no flesh-colored leggings; just bare plastic legs, as I recall (like the earlier Robin figure). So there were multiple Aqualad figures? Huh. Wow. Huh. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 11, 2018 12:51:39 GMT -5
Must be a different release than what I had. I had Aqualad and there were no flesh-colored leggings; just bare plastic legs, as I recall (like the earlier Robin figure). So there were multiple Aqualad figures? Huh. Wow. Huh. That's my memory; but, I haven't been able to find proof, on-line. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 12, 2018 19:59:05 GMT -5
Titans #46 (February 1977)  "The Fiddler's Concert of Crime!" Script: Bob Rozakis Pencils: Irv Novick Inks: Joe Giella Colors: ? Letters: Ben Oda grade: C+ Once again, the covers prove to be the absolute worst part of the Bob Rozakis Teen Titans run. This might actually be the ugliest, un-ironically least appealing comic book cover I've ever seen. From the arrangements, to the inking, to the colors, to the content itself -- who in their right minds would want to pick this issue up from a spinner rack? And it's tempting to use that moment as a launching point for a massive harangue about how much Bob Rozakis' work on this title stinks, but I'm not going to do that (or at least not do it just yet). Sure, this issue features a ridiculous villain, ridiculous plot points, thin characterization, and a generally nonsensical conflict (what's The Fiddler's motivation for any of this again?), but it's also clear that Rozakis is doing at least two things right. For one, he's trying to push character relationships. Whereas the first ten years of Teen Titans adventures feature a team that shows up, fights crime, maybe cracks a few jokes, and that's pretty much it, Rozakis wants to pair off couples, explore interpersonal conflicts, and generally make characterization an important part of this comic book.  ...which is not to say he's doing it well, but it's still far more than Haney and the others ever gave us. The other thing I give Rozakis credit for is his attention to continuity. He knows exactly where The Fiddler appeared prior to this adventure, has Jack Ryder delivering the news:  and even remembers the name of Speedy's old rock band:  For the first time, the Titans are operating in a larger shared universe instead of their own, and that makes Rozakis' introduction of Duella Dent to the title (previously appearing with Robin in Batman Family) a little more tolerable. So, while we never ever learn why Robin decides to sponsor her for membership after all the stunts she pulled, it's at least nice to see that what happens to Robin there might possibly matter here, and vice versa. Fortunately, Duella Dent doesn't dominate this issue the way she dominated Rozakis' Batman Family scripts. In fact, she really doesn't get much characterization at all in this story. Personally, I'd like to know why she opts to keep the Joker's Daughter persona.  It really doesn't make any sense, especially for someone who is now going to be a superhero. There's a plot in here somewhere. The Fiddler is now on Earth One and wants to do...something, for some reason. He's got the giant fiddle-shaped flying vehicles and such, kidnaps two celebrities who are supposed to resemble Paul and Linda McCartney (only Paul now dresses like a pimp for some reason?), and the big question of the issue is what happened to their "rivals," intended to resemble the Carpenters. Rozakis' twist actually made for a semi-decent mystery, even if it neither made much sense nor seemed accurate in portraying these two musical groups as diametric opposites that would be expected to hate each other:  ...Ooh, but they're actually the same group (for some reason).And I guess this brings us back to the continuity thing. There's an attempt in this story to get back to some of the classic Haney Titans feel, with the team meeting some "hip" musicians at the forefront of the counterculture scene, but it feels forced and out of place in this title now, as does this completely random moment in the story  which feels like a very explicit callback to early Haney:  It's...terrible, but I respect the intention. Important Details:- Duella Dent, currently "The Joker's Daughter," joins the team at Robin's behest. Technically, she still hasn't been voted in by the end of the issue. - Mal still has neither a codename nor costume, but we sure get reminded exactly what sound his new horn makes roughly twice per page:  Minor Details:- First DC Bullet cover - Why is this image so creepy?  In the end, it's not a good story at all, but I can see what Rozakis is trying to do, and I wonder if this run might have grown into something worthwhile if Rozakis had been given a little more time to grow his voice as a writer. Meh, probably not. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Dec 13, 2018 15:52:56 GMT -5
Titans #46 (February 1977) "The Fiddler's Concert of Crime!" Script: Bob Rozakis Pencils: Irv Novick Inks: Joe Giella Colors: ? Letters: Ben Oda grade: C+ Once again, the covers prove to be the absolute worst part of the Bob Rozakis Teen Titans run. This might actually be the ugliest, un-ironically least appealing comic book cover I've ever seen. From the arrangements, to the inking, to the colors, to the content itself -- who in their right minds would want to pick this issue up from a spinner rack?
Me. I have no problem with this cover. In fact, I, generally, like Rich Buckler's DC covers of the era. Some are better than others, to be sure (like his Freedom Fighters cover, for issue #9; just wish he had been drawing the book). I look at it and am curious to see why the team is fighting each other. That's enough to get me to read it, though the characters would draw me to it as much as the cover image. I find the simpler layout more attractive than some of the "busy" covers from Marvel, of the era, or even other DC books. I'm not gonna defend the story. Rozakis, like other DC writers, in the face of declining sales, is trying to Marvelize the stories, while editorially aiming for young kids who are perceived to have simplistic tastes. Maybe I was more used to that in DC books. I'd give a lot of them a try, simply for having a good concept, even if the final story let it down. Sure, it leads to disappointment; but, when you don't have a lot of access to comics (as I didn't, before I was regularly earning spending money), you are a little more open to stories that sound cool on the surface, or at least just feature a favorite character. When i reacquired Titans comics of this era, out of nostalgia, I found the stories disappointing; but, I could say the same for a lot of Haney's. I loved the concept of the Titans, and read issues back in the day more for that concept than the story; but, the book was never a "must read" until Wolfman and Perez. They finally elevated the concept that attracted me into something that could tell really good stories. I still wished they were using more of the classic characters; but, they made them real characters, gae them real threats, and treated the reader like they had intelligence, regardless of age. I don't have a problem with Duela, as I've said before, because I thought she was an interesting idea for a character. I strongly suspect the Joker's Daughter personna was kept because that's how she was introduced and that Rozakis hadn't had an idea where to go with her beyond that initial series of stories in BF. Obviously, DC editorial felt a change was needed, as we can't (yet) have a hero who is based on a villain (even if we are saying they are a child of a villain), leading to the Harlequin identity (which had been the identity of a villain). I think, in some ways, Rozakis was trying to follow Paul Levitz's example of Huntress, as the child of a hero and a villain, adding a new wrinkle to things. He picks it up here, introducing what at first seems to be a child of the Joker, who turns out to be a child of Two-Face (until marv Wolfman later erases that possibility). It isn't too far down the road that we introduce a child of Brainwave and then reveal that the mother of Alan Scott's children was the original Thorn, and not, as we suspected, the original harlequin (who was still a villain). Rozakis has a nice idea; but, doesn't really have the talent to pull it off; and, I suspect, didn't have the editorial support he needed. One of the biggest challenges that faced Jenette Kahn and Paul Levitz was the entrenched DC editorial department. Well, certain corners of it that had been resistant to change, even under Carmine. Personally, i liked seeing some of these Golden Age villains get new use, as it was something different from the usual cast of suspects we had been getting. They may have been old to Roy Thomas and Jerry bails; but, they were relatively new, to me. I've also got a bit of a soft spot for goofy (especially since my first regular comic was Super Goof  ). |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 13, 2018 16:07:57 GMT -5
Titans #46 (February 1977) "The Fiddler's Concert of Crime!" Script: Bob Rozakis Pencils: Irv Novick Inks: Joe Giella Colors: ? Letters: Ben Oda grade: C+ Once again, the covers prove to be the absolute worst part of the Bob Rozakis Teen Titans run. This might actually be the ugliest, un-ironically least appealing comic book cover I've ever seen. From the arrangements, to the inking, to the colors, to the content itself -- who in their right minds would want to pick this issue up from a spinner rack?
Me. I have no problem with this cover. In fact, I, generally, like Rich Buckler's DC covers of the era. Some are better than others, to be sure (like his Freedom Fighters cover, for issue #9; just wish he had been drawing the book). I look at it and am curious to see why the team is fighting each other. That's enough to get me to read it, though the characters would draw me to it as much as the cover image. I find the simpler layout more attractive than some of the "busy" covers from Marvel, of the era, or even other DC books. I'm wondering if this is an age issue. You and I are about the same age. Shax is, I believe, a fair bit younger. While I'm not crazy about the cover I don't find anything at all wrong with it. And it has enough hook that I might have (but didn't) bought it off a spinner rack at the time. |
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