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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 29, 2019 10:57:50 GMT -5
Wolfman and Perez copied the New X-men and made them more independent from their adult mentors. That changed the concept and made them popular. I will also say that Wolfman impressed with a stellar rogues gallery in just the first 20 issues.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 29, 2019 12:27:03 GMT -5
Wolfman and Perez copied the New X-men and made them more independent from their adult mentors. might be more accurate. There's no doubt they were pulling from the X-Men, but they were also borrowing from the Titans' past legacy (they were really only the Junior Justice League during Rozakis' run), and I have to wonder if Perez's also doing art for the Avengers at the same time influenced the creative vision for this new super team as well. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 29, 2019 14:01:56 GMT -5
Most certainly Perez influenced the DC book and made it into a Marvel style series. That was the first move to try to chip away at Marvels market dominance.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jan 29, 2019 16:13:04 GMT -5
Do you think Starfire was in the Phoenix or Storm line? Cyborg like Colossus? Raven like Nightcrawler? Beast Boy for Wolverine?
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jan 29, 2019 18:15:05 GMT -5
Do you think Starfire was in the Phoenix or Storm line? Cyborg like Colossus? Raven like Nightcrawler? Beast Boy for Wolverine? I've got a TON to say about this. You'll just have to wait 'til I get there 😉 |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 29, 2019 21:20:54 GMT -5
Do you think Starfire was in the Phoenix or Storm line? Cyborg like Colossus? Raven like Nightcrawler? Beast Boy for Wolverine? I've got a TON to say about this. You'll just have to wait 'til I get there 😉 You've read the interviews, right? Wolfman said this was absolutely not true. But NTT and NXM were really close in tone and storytelling structure. Anyway, really good thread. This whole run is both fascinating to me if only because the creators could never quite decide what they wanted to do with it. |
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Post by shaxper on Jan 29, 2019 21:57:17 GMT -5
I've got a TON to say about this. You'll just have to wait 'til I get there 😉 You've read the interviews, right? Wolfman said this was absolutely not true. My theories are a lot more nuanced than simply giving an X-Man a new name and look. Trust me, I've given the matter a lot of consideration. Disagreement and robust debate will (of course) be welcome. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 29, 2019 22:26:21 GMT -5
I never meant that they Copied the characters, I meant that they copied the New characters added to old favorites to make a new team concept.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 22:35:43 GMT -5
I never meant that they Copied the characters, I meant that they copied the New characters added to old favorites to make a new team concept. This approach worked well for both titles. I know I was a fan of both series at that time and did not like either series starring the original teams (both X-Men and Teen Titans) in the past. Yes I did read some of the original stories but mostly as reprints. |
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 29, 2019 23:51:00 GMT -5
Anyway, really good thread. This whole run is both fascinating to me if only because the creators could never quite decide what they wanted to do with it. At least not until TNTT. The original (1960s) run played with aging/maturing the characters as a means of progression, but were also sidelined by topical issues such as their dip into pacifism and the bizarre flirtation with gothic horror. As we will see, TNTT never had that problem, since it was pretty clear Wolfman, et al., treated their Titans as if they no longer had to go through all of those growing pains (and odd external influences on the creators) all over again. They were allowed to hit the ground running. |
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Post by shaxper on Jan 31, 2019 13:16:12 GMT -5
Showcase #100 (May 1978)  "There Shall Come a Gathering" Script: Paul Kupperberg; Paul Levitz Pencils: Joe Staton Inks: Joe Staton Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: Ben Oda Grade: n/a Only three short months after Rozakis' run was cut mercifully short, we've got the Titans making cameo appearances in two different books in the same month. I will not be grading either, as they are not really Teen Titans stories. Instead, I'm simply exploring how the Titans are depicted within each story. The concept behind Showcase #100 was to bring together every character and team that had made their debut appearances within the pages of Showcase. And, while the Titans actually began in Brave and the Bold #60, they certainly did appear in Showcase #59 before earning their own title. And it sort of seems like Kupperberg and Levitz have little awareness nor concern for what has happened to the team since that time. Wonder Girl's inexplicably 1963 hairdo aside:  the team is still assembled, and the line-up appears to consist of founding members Robin, Kid Flash, Wonder Girl, Aqualad...  ...and The Hawk and the Dove. That was never an actual line-up for the team, Aqualad quitting in Teen Titans #19, and Hawk and Dove not even meeting the team until two issues later. So, are we then to assume the Titans didn't fully break-up? Speedy and some of the others quit, but Aqualad decided to come back, and Hawk and Dove have now joined too? Sure, I guess I can wrap my head around that. Except that it's all contradicted by the next two appearances the team makes. As for the role they play in this story, itself? They really don't do anything. They appear in literally one additional panel that I haven't scanned into this review. EDIT: As Cei-U! and others have since pointed out, a later letter column indicated that this was an imaginary story that shouldn't be considered in actual continuity. |
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Post by shaxper on Jan 31, 2019 13:28:35 GMT -5
DC Special Series #11 (May 1978)  "Beyond the Super-Speed Barrier!" Script: Cary Bates Pencils: Irv Novick, José Luis García-López Inks: Joe Giella, Wally Wood Colors: Carl Gafford Letters: Milt Snapinn Grade: n/a The second title to feature a Titans cameo in May of 1978 seems like a try-out for a Flash Family DC Dollar title, as it features Flash, Kid Flash, and the Golden Age Flash, all teaming up for a single adventure. It's a shame the concept didn't get the greenlight. Anyway, the portion of the story that's relevant to this thread is just the final page, where Wally West graduates from high school:  Bates acknowledges the team having broken up and shows all of the most recent members (other than Karen Beecher, for some reason). And, for what it's worth, Wally is no longer hung up on Donna.  The reason for his moping is graduation blues, not any thoughts/feelings in regard to the Titans. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 31, 2019 13:40:12 GMT -5
Showcase #100 was never seriously intended to be in continuity, and is generally considered apocryphal, kinda like the Hembeck Fantastic Four Roast book (minus the awful puns). I personally find the story underwhelming and I've never liked Staton's art during this period. Cei-U! Think of it as a prehistoric Elseworlds! |
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 31, 2019 14:09:57 GMT -5
Showcase #100 (May 1978) "There Shall Come a Gathering" Script: Paul Kupperberg; Paul Levitz Pencils: Joe Staton Inks: Joe Staton Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: Ben Oda So, I suppose that meant the novelty of an anniversary issue meant more than continuity. Then, that answers the question of continuity: being an anniversary issue, this can be considered to be one of DC's infamous "imaginary stories" having no bearing on Titans past or then-present. Oh, and Staton's art was horrendous--incorrect anatomy and just plain crude. Was he the first choice for the 100th issue of such an important title in DC (and the medium's) history? DC Special Series #11 (May 1978) "Beyond the Super-Speed Barrier!" Script: Cary Bates Pencils: Irv Novick, José Luis García-López Inks: Joe Giella, Wally Wood Colors: Carl Gafford Letters: Milt Snapinn One last look--and in my opinion, a nostalgic one--at alter ego solidarity, before more dysfunction would wash over many a DC character's lives in the decade to come. Well, I guess one notable exception to that will be the guest appearances and some character relationship spotlights during Donna's weeding to Terry Long in Tales of the Teen Titans #50 (February, 1985). |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 31, 2019 14:29:40 GMT -5
Showcase #100 was never seriously intended to be in continuity, and is generally considered apocryphal, kinda like the Hembeck Fantastic Four Roast book (minus the awful puns). I personally find the story underwhelming and I've never liked Staton's art during this period. Cei-U! Think of it as a prehistoric Elseworlds! Yes, and I'm sure the reason Hawk and Dove were included as Titans was that they had premiered in Showcase and it was easier to shoehorn them into the Titans' scenes than be forced to create a separate "episode" for them.  PS: I thought that was Commissioner Gordon, not Ira West. They did resemble each other, but, Jeez, Novick and Giella could have at least looked at an old Flash issue for more than a second or two when they illustrated him. Unlike Gordon, West wore round glasses and a decidedly unserious look, befitting his cliched absent-minded professor characterization. |
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