shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 2, 2019 23:44:06 GMT -5
. Basically, no one was more up on his continuity than Bridwell. Dude was Encyclopedia Bridwellica. This right here, though... ...strikes me as a very Bridwellian type of thing. ENB was practically the Philip Jose Farmer of DC Comics. Seriously, read a couple of his text pieces in the early issues of Super Friends to see for yourself. And there was a reference to events in Batman Family... ... which also seems to me like a Bridwell thing. So what I'm pondering - and keep in mind this is all pure speculation - is that Teen Titans was written by Bob Rozakis, who often did work for the office of Julius Schwartz, including lettercolumns and some stories. And who was also writing the above-mentioned Robin feature in Batman Family. Also in that same office was Schwartz's assistant, E. Nelson Bridwell. Could ENB have been doing a favor for a co-worker, or maybe trying to give a proper wrap-up to a series he liked? Also, after the DC Implosion, it seems like many DC titles suddenly got very conservative in their storytelling. It might be that there were plans for continuing with some or all of these plot points, but management got nervous after the big crunch. Note that right after this issue, ENB was no longer Superman Family editor, and it was handed over to Julius Schwartz, who took a fairly standard approach to the book after that. Did he make changes due to concerns about sales? Or was it like, maybe, nuking a storyline that he had already zapped once before? Rozakis never indicates which identity Mal would return to, but his interviews explicitly state that the only reason he abandoned the Guardian persona was because of Julie Schwartz, and the fan letters clearly preferred the Guardian identity too. Then again, for all I know, DeFalco and ENB told their story and were finished with it on their own. No idea if I'm right or not. It's just that this entire thing seems kinda circular on the "real world" level. It certainly seems logical to me. I have no idea if DeFalco had any connection to Rozakis, but you're right that there's an editor's obsessive level of detail attached to this script. Well, a good editor anyway. And I can't claim to know enough about Bridwell to weigh in on that. It's two reviews away. I'll let you wonder what's coming before it  DC Special Series #11 (May 1978)  I had no idea you would mention this book. It's awesome that you did. I would love to see you do a standalone review of it. I'd be very tempted, aside from one small problem: I know NOTHING about Flash continuity, nor the editorial office overseeing The Flash at this point. One of the struggles in reviewing a team book is deciding where to draw your lines, and it constantly bothers me how little I know about Wally's, Roy's, nor Aqualad's lives outside of the Titans during this era. But pursuing any of those would be a side-quest even more taxing than my current work on Batman Family just as a means of keeping tabs on Robin during this time period. As it stands, I still have fifteen Batman Family reviews left to do before I will allow myself to move on to reviewing the New Teen Titans. |
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Post by Chris on Feb 3, 2019 0:07:44 GMT -5
I had no idea you would mention this book. It's awesome that you did. I would love to see you do a standalone review of it. I'd be very tempted, aside from one small problem: I know NOTHING about Flash continuity, nor the editorial office overseeing The Flash at this point. One of the struggles in reviewing a team book is deciding where to draw your lines, and it constantly bothers me how little I know about Wally's, Roy's, nor Aqualad's lives outside of the Titans during this era. But pursuing any of those would be a side-quest even more taxing than my current work on Batman Family just as a means of keeping tabs on Robin during this time period. As it stands, I still have fifteen Batman Family reviews left to do before I will allow myself to move on to reviewing the New Teen Titans. That's even more reason I'd like to see your review. You're coming into this clean, with no preconceptions or foreknowledge of the characters, or of the creative personnel. Besides, it was almost two years from the end of that Superman Family story with the Titans and the release of NTT #1. So according to continuity, you've got over eighteen months before you have to post the next review...  |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 3, 2019 0:13:17 GMT -5
Besides, it was almost two years from the end of that Superman Family story with the Titans and the release of NTT #1. So according to continuity, you've got over eighteen months before you have to post the next review... once I get through those fifteen remaining Batman Family issues  |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 3, 2019 16:23:05 GMT -5
Adventure Comics #461 (February 1979)  Wonder Woman: "School of the Amazoids" Script: Jack C. Harris Pencils: Jack Abel Inks: Jack Abel Colors: Adrienne Roy Letters: Karen Kish (as Karisha) Grade: n/a Well, Chris, consider me mystified. No Bridwell nor DeFalco attached to this story, and yet its another heavy-handed longing for the recently disbanded team that feels like it has an agenda.  It's true, though, that it devotes less attention to the fine details of Rozakis' run than Superman Family #190-194 did. And, perhaps more importantly, it appears to be pushing for a solo Wonder Girl feature as opposed to a return of the Teen Titans:   Maybe, just prior to the Implosion, DC was considering a Wonder Woman Family title too? I would have loved a continuing adventure of Donna attempting to learn her true origin story. Beyond that, what's probably most significant about this story is that it's the first time (at least as far as I know) that Donna and Wonder Girl are actually seen together (beyond fighting one another in Teen Titans #53).  Prior to Donna appearing with the Teen Titans, her status as a unique individual apart from Diana was unclear. And (to the best of my knowledge), the two never met again prior to this story (again, TT #53 aside), as Donna was removed from the title just in time for her joining the Titans:  from Wonder Woman #158So this is really the first time we ever see the two having any kid of relationship with one another. And, since all that is six years from being written out of continuity entirely, they won't have many more moments like this either. Minor Details: - Donna's first origin story, provided in Teen Titans #22, indicates that Donna got her powers via the Amazonian Purple Ray. However, perhaps in keeping with Rozakis' choice to significantly de-power her, she explains here that:  So...she's more Batman than Superman in terms of power levels. Wolfman and Perez will undo that in a year's time. |
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 3, 2019 17:02:19 GMT -5
I never understood the motive behind de-powering her, or any character.
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Post by rberman on Feb 3, 2019 17:14:20 GMT -5
Superman Family #190-194 (August 1978 thru April 1979) "The Quest for the Guardian" and other stories Script: Tom DeFalco Pencils: Kurt Schaffenberger, John Calnan Inks: Tex Blaisdell, Vince Colletta Colors: Mario Sen, Jerry Serpe Letters: Clem Robins, Jean Simek, Milt Snapinn  Ah, I didn't realize there was a black man as Guardian in the Bronze Age. This sheds further light on the Seven Soldiers: Guardian protagonist.  |
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Post by rberman on Feb 3, 2019 17:19:52 GMT -5
DC Special Series #11 (May 1978) I had no idea you would mention this book. It's awesome that you did. I would love to see you do a standalone review of it. Question for Flash experts: Do any Wally/Barry/Jay stories of the Silver or Bronze Age involve the three of them chasing something through time? |
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Post by zaku on Feb 3, 2019 18:11:26 GMT -5
Beyond that, what's probably most significant about this story is that it's the first time (at least as far as I know) that Donna and Wonder Girl are actually seen together (beyond fighting one another in Teen Titans #53). According the great Mikes Amazing World site, the previous time that they shared a comic book (chronologically) was in Doom Patrol #104  |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 3, 2019 19:35:59 GMT -5
Beyond that, what's probably most significant about this story is that it's the first time (at least as far as I know) that Donna and Wonder Girl are actually seen together (beyond fighting one another in Teen Titans #53). According the great Mikes Amazing World site, the previous time that they shared a comic book (chronologically) was in Doom Patrol #104 Technically, they appear in the same panel there, but they don't interact in that appearance. Just both guests at the wedding. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 3, 2019 23:22:50 GMT -5
Ah, I didn't realize there was a black man as Guardian in the Bronze Age. This sheds further light on the Seven Soldiers: Guardian protagonist. I hadn't connected those dots, myself. Nice work! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 23:29:35 GMT -5
Adventure 461 is another personal favorite, mainly because of the JSA and the Wonder Girl appearance. I remember reading it and hoping Wonder Girl would start appearing with Wonder Woman. WG seemed to be one of the more popular Titans and I wonder why the WW creative teams never included her (other than a solo 2 part back up in WW 265-266). WW went through so many changes from the late 60s-80s, so maybe with the constant shifts it would have made it difficult to include WG? I always wanted a story where Donna moves in with Diana just after the Titans disbanded in 1973 where not only Diana was dealing with her own issues but living with her teen aged sister. Would’ve been nice to see her help Wonder Girl investigate her mysterious past too. Oh well, at least we have this issue of Adventure.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 3, 2019 23:42:46 GMT -5
Oh well, at least we have this issue if Adventure. Whatever plans were being considered for Donna were inevitably stymied by the DC Implosion. Fortunately, we do still have Wonder Woman #265-266 two reviews away. I've never read them before, myself, but they apparently feature Donna. Brave & The Bold #149 is next... |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 4, 2019 7:32:10 GMT -5
Did the DC Implosion Save the Teen Titans?
By mid 1978, on the cusp of the promised "DC Explosion," there were two important truths in regard to the Teen Titans: 1. Jenette Kahn was not a fan of the Rozakis series and (allegedly) of the team's very concept. 12. As DC was planning a significant expansion of titles, most or all of the team members were being considered for solo features, including: *Robin in Batman Family *Harlequin as a back-up feature in "Vixen" 2*Kid Flash either continuing as a backup in Flash or moving on to a tentative Flash Family title 3*Wonder Girl. No feature location specified, but solo adventures were definitely being considered 4*Speedy. No concrete plans, but he received a try-out in Superman Family #192-194*Mal and Karen. No concrete plans, but solo careers being considered/teased in Superman Family #191In short, DC was toying with rebranding each of these licenses as solo heroes in lieu of salvaging the team. Had the DC Implosion of 1978 not occurred, in which DC abandoned its plans for expansion and savagely trimmed their existing titles, DC may have succeeded in proving these characters could and should work independent of the Teen Titans concept. And, while no licensed DC franchise goes unused forever, it stands to reason that, in a world in which the DC Explosion had succeeded, Jenette Kahn would have seen a Wolfman/Perez effort to rebuild the Teen Titans franchise as unnecessary and possibly even counterproductive to what was being done with the characters elsewhere. A next Teen Titans revival likely would have taken several more years, would have featured a very different (possibly all-new, though I suspect Mal and Karen weren't going anywhere) line-up, and likely would have been helmed by a different creative team. The definitive run that proved this franchise was more than a campy relic of the Go-Go Checks era might never have taken flight. Thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2019 9:44:32 GMT -5
Interesting to wonder how the Titans would have played out had they become solo heroes and the NTT didn't happen. Would Robin have become Nightwing? Would Wally have become the Flash? Would several of the Titans have been killed off in the Crisis? In my fan-fic mind, Robin would have become Nightwing as some Crisis result. Flash would have died still with Wally taking up his mantle. Wonder Girl would have come through unscathed, and perhaps Wonder Woman's reboot would have happened, but be retroactive (to allow for WG). I can imagine them setting up a new team consisting of Nightwing, Flash, Wonder Girl, Kole (she would be the same crystal spinning character, but be a member for some Crisis reason) , Mal in some role, and possibly a revamped Bumblebee? Perhaps they would have killed off Beast Boy, Harlequin, Gnarkk, Dove, Bat-Girl, Mr. Jupiter, and Golden Eagle in the Crisis.
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 4, 2019 10:21:57 GMT -5
Did the DC Implosion Save the Teen Titans?
By the end of 1978, on the cusp of the promised "DC Explosion," there were two important truths in regard to the Teen Titans: 1. Jenette Kahn was not a fan of the Rozakis series and (allegedly) of the team's very concept. 12. As DC was planning a significant expansion of titles, most or all of the team members were being considered for solo features, including: *Robin in Batman Family *Harlequin in an unspecified title that was not Batman Family 2*Kid Flash in a tentative Flash Family title 3*Wonder Girl. No feature location specified, but solo adventures were definitely being considered 4*Speedy. No concrete plans, but he received a try-out in Superman Family #192-194*Mal and Karen. No concrete plans, but solo careers being considered/teased in Superman Family #191In short, DC was toying with rebranding each of these licenses as solo heroes in lieu of salvaging the team. Had the DC Implosion of 1979 not occurred, in which DC abandoned its plans for expansion and savagely trimmed their existing titles, DC may have succeeded in proving these characters could and should work independent of the Teen Titans concept. And, while no licensed DC franchise goes unused forever, it stands to reason that, in a world in which the DC Explosion had succeeded, Jenette Kahn would have seen a Wolfman/Perez effort to rebuild the Teen Titans franchise as unnecessary and possibly even counterproductive to what was being done with the characters elsewhere. A next Teen Titans revival likely would have taken several more years, would have featured a very different (possibly all-new, though I suspect Mal and Karen weren't going anywhere) line-up, and likely would have been helmed by a different creative team. The definitive run that proved this franchise was more than a campy relic of the Go-Go Checks era might never have taken flight. Thoughts? A number of pointless solo efforts (with the characters in that Rozakis-flavored state) was something next to no reader was asking for at the time. More to the point, if Robin, the most popular and significant sidekick character in the medium's history was never able to earn & headline a solo title of his own (meaning, his run in Star Spangled Comics and features in Detective Comics & Batman Family did not count as his title) then, there was no rational reason for DC to push forward with solo stories with other characters who were already appearing stale to the changing readership. The only hope for the characters to not be washed away by the changing tide of comics at the end of the 70s/dawn of the 80s was what happened: a revived TT in the hands of creators who were of a very different generational belief system (despite the ironic fact that Marv Wolfman was older than Rozakis by a few years). As for Kahn's view of the Teen Titans, she almost seemed to have been stuck in the mindset model of the success of the revived DC that was born in the late 60s, which led to a number of classic superhero and horror titles rich in darker drama / maturing cape and cowl characters which ran at a strong pace until (at least) the mid-point of the 1970s. This may have led her (and others) to believe that the Teen Titans was still that "gimmicky 60s holdover" that deserved its 1973 cancellation right at that aforementioned time of darker drama and maturing superhero titles. The late 70s revival only supported that belief, if it was there at all. If the concept's true revival had not occurred (talent and specific period of time all vital to its success), I do not see the DC brass of that era moving in any direction toward another TT title at a time when other titles involving young characters (not just the X-Men, but DC's own Legion of Superheroes) made the late 70s Titans seem like a stagnant relic of a bygone era not worth the talent and production investment of yet another revival. |
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