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Post by impulse on Jul 7, 2020 13:55:36 GMT -5
Ugh, sorry to hear. I hope the deniers and folks who have not thus far taken this thing seriously are finally approaching the point of pulling their heads out of their rectums, and I hope it's in enough time we can keep this thing from spiraling totally out of control.
We started off going yeah this sucks, but let's hunker down for the greater good and beat this. In my house at least we are starting to get pissed and resentful at the people making it worse by going out and doing all the things we are giving up.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 7, 2020 14:03:27 GMT -5
Sorry, brutalis. You must feel like one of the RAF pilots in 1940. Above all, thank you for shouldering this burden and risking os much for others. What makes this beyond galling is that you and your fellow workers are in this mess because of the essential selfishness of others, from the top levels of government, federal, state and local, down to the legions of partiers and latte-seekers whose lives are apparently incomplete and who feel enslaved unless they can defy every bit of scientific logic and medical expertise. And these selfish types are the ones occupying beds and running you ragged. Most people suck.
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Post by brutalis on Jul 7, 2020 19:34:20 GMT -5
Appreciate the moral support friends. Was an ugly day without any leadership or direction or training. I had to be the one explaining to the HUC (health unit coordinator) she was to "train" me for several days so she could be floated around the hospital. Of course I had maybe a 1/2 hours worth of real orientation while my day was spent doing NONE of my real role of which i am expected to maintain along with working the unit desk. Entire day answering the phones and patient call lights. Typical if large corporations...tell you what to do without teaching how to do it. Day 1 down and 3 more to go. It is to laugh. HARDY HAR HAR HAR HAR...
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 8, 2020 0:57:30 GMT -5
If people wear some kind of covering of the nose and mouth it can cut transmission down 40% to 60%. I think media giving equal time to people saying it's their right to not do what they can to reduce transmission or saying this is unproven should be silent now really. It is proven, so long as people do cover their noses and mouths indoors, it's a main part of why much of Europe, Canada and South Korea have far lower transmission numbers! That and distancing people. I would almost say it's an active disinformation campaign to encourage non distancing and mask wearing. If this was Aids/HIV would people be saying there's a right to share needles, not use condoms? I don't understand anti-vaccers either. Are they going to not want a corona virus inoculation either then? I wonder how any could've been around during the Polio terror? I'm sorry if some think it's political but it's just reality as observed by 99% of scientists, medical doctors and nurses, and by anyone else who will take the time and trouble to find proven trustworthy sources and not some foil hat video or opinion character. It is also life and death reality. Protect our vulnerable, including health care workers and other public servants, and even field laborers... you not just might need them you definitely do need them!
If we put out heads into thinking of how we can carry on around this virus and get people back to work instead of the us vs. them dividing up groove so many get stuck into, we can probably come up with positive solutions instead of just more negativity and 'not for's and weakened divided communities. I thought awhile ago if there is a notable decrease in oxygen in the blood, what if it were put directly into the blood stream, and now it is actually being done! That many fewer going to ventilators that are difficult to get back off of.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 8, 2020 4:37:43 GMT -5
Ugh, sorry to hear. I hope the deniers and folks who have not thus far taken this thing seriously are finally approaching the point of pulling their heads out of their rectums, and I hope it's in enough time we can keep this thing from spiraling totally out of control. We started off going yeah this sucks, but let's hunker down for the greater good and beat this. In my house at least we are starting to get pissed and resentful at the people making it worse by going out and doing all the things we are giving up. The combination of people going totally financially Bankrupt and being lied to too much about the virus had made people resistant to government edicts. I find it amazing that during this pandemic the regular flu has vanished.
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Post by brutalis on Jul 8, 2020 7:03:36 GMT -5
Ugh, sorry to hear. I hope the deniers and folks who have not thus far taken this thing seriously are finally approaching the point of pulling their heads out of their rectums, and I hope it's in enough time we can keep this thing from spiraling totally out of control. We started off going yeah this sucks, but let's hunker down for the greater good and beat this. In my house at least we are starting to get pissed and resentful at the people making it worse by going out and doing all the things we are giving up. The combination of people going totally financially Bankrupt and being lied to too much about the virus had made people resistant to government edicts. I find it amazing that during this pandemic the regular flu has vanished. It hasn't vanished, just ignored and pushed aside by it's bigger brother Covid. MANY of the patients we have coming in state i have Covid symptoms now, rather than stating i have FLU symptoms. Even after being tested and coming out negative the patients will still us no, the test is wrong, it is not flu symptoms, I have Covid. Right now Covid is the "umbrella" which covers ALL symptoms to people and that will remain so as long as biased news reporting comes from Washington and local news channels FOCUSED ONLY on Covid.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 8, 2020 20:03:20 GMT -5
The combination of people going totally financially Bankrupt and being lied to too much about the virus had made people resistant to government edicts. I find it amazing that during this pandemic the regular flu has vanished. It hasn't vanished, just ignored and pushed aside by it's bigger brother Covid. MANY of the patients we have coming in state i have Covid symptoms now, rather than stating i have FLU symptoms. Even after being tested and coming out negative the patients will still us no, the test is wrong, it is not flu symptoms, I have Covid. Right now Covid is the "umbrella" which covers ALL symptoms to people and that will remain so as long as biased news reporting comes from Washington and local news channels FOCUSED ONLY on Covid. That's my point.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 8, 2020 20:43:37 GMT -5
Not sure who’s been lying about the virus aside from right-wingers, anti-vax types, he who must not be named and his lapdogs in a certain political party and in certain media outlets.
Sorry if this is a trigger, but any lying has come from the same crowd caling it a hoax, mocking people who wear masks, holding the Michigan legislature hostage in their Infantile Red Dawn fever-dream, and bullying and intimidating the wonderful people working at supermarkets, post offices, and retail stores.
Let’s not accuse Fauci of “lying” about wearing masks. For about a week, he was saying that they weren’t sure, but they changed course when they discovered new information.
The medical people are and have been trying like hell to figure out what makes this virus tick, and thtat’s not easy when it insists on mutating and presenting differently. Fauci has been clear for months that masks feckin’ work, as does distancing and avoiding gathering in groups, like say, bars and restaurants and house parties and “Covid” parties and church choirs and indoor rallies.
So who else has been lying?
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 9, 2020 5:13:39 GMT -5
Not sure who’s been lying about the virus aside from right-wingers, anti-vax types, he who must not be named and his lapdogs in a certain political party and in certain media outlets. Sorry if this is a trigger, but any lying has come from the same crowd caling it a hoax, mocking people who wear masks, holding the Michigan legislature hostage in their Infantile Red Dawn fever-dream, and bullying and intimidating the wonderful people working at supermarkets, post offices, and retail stores. Let’s not accuse Fauci of “lying” about wearing masks. For about a week, he was saying that they weren’t sure, but they changed course when they discovered new information. The medical people are and have been trying like hell to figure out what makes this virus tick, and thtat’s not easy when it insists on mutating and presenting differently. Fauci has been clear for months that masks feckin’ work, as does distancing and avoiding gathering in groups, like say, bars and restaurants and house parties and “Covid” parties and church choirs and indoor rallies. So who else has been lying? So many people, so much information to parse... Who are we to trust? Let's play Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom and examine the human population discussing covid-19. We encounter many groups. Medical and scientific staff, who are asked to come up with clear and plain answers, with precise instructions, but whose real opinion is "it depends". Such people are doing their best to understand and manage a virus that we don't know enough about to be absolutely certain about anything. Such people might be wrong about many things, especially in hindsight, but I would never suspect them of actually lying, because they have nothing to gain by it. Furthermore, their willingness to change their recommendations over time (or to stress some of them more than they did previously, as is the case with masks) shows adaptability and humility rather than arrogance, and that is to be commended. Politicians who are quite willing to use this epidemic to further their agenda and/or career, as they are willing to use ANYTHING to further their agenda and career. Such politicians's statements are often endorsed by their friends and allies, not always out of sheer dishonesty but also out of simple strategic planning. Many among said politician's followers, without much strategic planning of their own, are also ready to endorse whatever the boss says, even if it is "the sky is green". They inadvertently spread disinformation among their ranks, not out of malice but out of a tribal spirit and a general lack of critical sense when it comes to politics, because our general mindset in that field is often "we vs them; we are right and they are wrong". Entities who are not affiliated to political parties but who have some other interest in seeing our society move this or that way: I'm thinking, say, of industrialists who can make a ton of money depending on what policies are adopted. Such entities are essentially amoral, and will be quite ready to lie about things (as in "willfully propagate information that they know to be false") to make a profit. Ask a cigarette company whether their products are healthy... Armchair generals who always know how to manage an epidemic better than scientists , how to wage a war better than the military, how to fly an airplane better than a pilot and how to box better than Evander Holyfield. Such people are usually not lying per se so much as holding an exaggerated view of their own competence. Online "researchers" who think the Earth is flat, that evolution is a satanist plot, that covid-19 is caused by the 5g network and that chemtrails are a thing. They're not so much lying as making their sheer ignorance plain for all to see. Unfortunately, they can be very active. Luckily, most folks realize that they're full of it. Wellness gurus could fit either in this category or in the third one mentioned above. And finally there's the majority of us, who try to make sense of it all, who don't want to harm anyone by our actions or inactions, but also don't want to be forced into action or inaction by an erroneous opinion. Like dandelion fluff, we are tossed hither and yon by the winds of information and disinformation. So... Cui bono? If a scientist says "wear a mask" (or not), they may be right or they may be wrong; however, since they have nothing to gain either way, I would assume that they have a good reason. Politicians who say such things, however, might profit in different ways: making their opponent look bad, reassuring the population so the economy can restart, giving the impression that we know what they're doing... but in the end, whether I usually trust the politicians in question or not is irrelevant... when it comes to scientific matters, the scientific community is the reference. And when anyone disagrees with scientists on scientific matters, they'd better explain themselves... or I will assume that they're lying for some nefarious reason (which is bad), that they're ignorant (which is also bad) or that they're idiots (which is not their fault but is also bad).
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 9, 2020 6:24:00 GMT -5
My friends, everything turns political. It's a admitted fact that Hospitals across the country have been listing non-covid deaths as covid. Also, the need for masks at the beginning was discouraged by leading authorities , although they knew it would help. I think you all are aware of these facts. It has nothing to do with right or left, I don't like being lied to by anyone, regardless of who they vote for.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 9, 2020 7:34:56 GMT -5
My friends, everything turns political. It's a admitted fact that Hospitals across the country have been listing non-covid deaths as covid. Also, the need for masks at the beginning was discouraged by leading authorities , although they knew it would help. I think you all are aware of these facts. It has nothing to do with right or left, I don't like being lied to by anyone, regardless of who they vote for. But it was not a lie. Medical authorities, right from the start, said that wearing a mask could help. They did not initially recommend imposing the wearing of masks for several reasons, chief among which being (a) fear that people who ABSOLUTELY needed masks (hospital staff) would run out quickly, because demand outraced supply; (b) masks are NOT a perfect defense, and people wearing them might think that they no longer need to wash their hands or maintain social distancing (two measures that are more efficient); and (c) as long as we mostly all stayed indoors and away from each other, there was little reason to wear a mask. Furthermore, few people were keen about wearing masks (I sure don't like the idea), and imposing a measure that had limited impact was seen as unnecessary. Now the situation has evolved. People are deconfining and obviously not staying away from each other even though they should. Once again we're frequenting enclosed spaces in large numbers (shops, restaurants, public transportation). In such a context, wearing masks will definitely prove to be a barrier to viral dissemination and it is simply sensible for medical authorities to stress that point. My own government is thinking about making masks mandatory in all public enclosed spaces, after weeks of saying that it was not necessary... as long as we stayed two meters away from each other in all circumstances. Which we obviously haven't been doing. Changing one's recommendations according to today's reality does not make one a liar.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 7:48:37 GMT -5
Changing one's recommendations according to today's reality does not make one a liar. Yes. It's similar to people who dismiss science they don't like because "scientists have been wrong before". Science is about improving our models of nature, so I would hope the scientific knowledge of today is different from the scientific knowledge of yesterday. Even with the initial "we're not sure about masks" idea, the model of containment at the time included social distancing. A definite stance on masks was just an improvement to the model. On the other hand, making crap up which flies in the face of the evidence ("It's a hoax", "It's going away soon"), and repeating it for months, that's how you identify the degenerate liars.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2020 9:11:54 GMT -5
I read an article about medals recently (no link, sorry, this was in a magazine).
The UK (and Commonwealth) has the Distinguished Service Order recently, a military decoration “awarded for meritorious or distinguished service by officers of the armed forces during wartime, typically in actual combat.“ (That’s the Wikipedia definition).
We also have the Distinguished Service Cross. Wikipedia’s definition is, “a third level military decoration awarded to officers, and since 1993 ratings and other ranks, of the British Armed Forces, Royal Fleet Auxiliary and British Merchant Navy, and formerly also to officers of other Commonwealth countries.”
According to the article, there has been confusion at times, with people mentioning the wrong medal in discussion. One magazine devoted to medals even got the two mixed up. Understandable, I suppose. On the rare occasion I chat about medals, I may have used them interchangeably. One lives and learns, though.
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Post by impulse on Jul 9, 2020 9:21:09 GMT -5
Who are we to trust? Medical and scientific staff This one. It's this one. We are not living in the X-Files. The medical and scientific communities are not conspiracy organizations using medical treatments to embed RF tracking IDs so the government can track who is talking to the aliens. It's a admitted fact that Hospitals across the country have been listing non-covid deaths as covid. Similarly, no one dies of AIDS. AIDS doesn't kill you. They die of pneumonia, for example. Now, the reason they got pneumonia was because of AIDS, but would you say that AIDS didn't kill them? Changing one's recommendations according to today's reality does not make one a liar. One could almost say that is the point of science and how it works.. adjusting our knowledge and recommendation based on new information.
It's disheartening seeing this thing skyrocket in the US while in other countries that took this seriously from the outset it is virtually gone.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 9, 2020 9:28:41 GMT -5
@taxidriver1980, there is a similar, and seemingly constant, confusion about the name of the highest award for valor in the American military.
It’s not the Congressional Medal of Honor. It’s the Medal of Honor.
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