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Post by EdoBosnar on Nov 22, 2018 11:40:05 GMT -5
Well, today's an ordinary work-day for me since I'm no longer in the US, but happy Thanksgiving to all of you celebrating back in the hold homeland.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2018 15:42:02 GMT -5
Happy Thanksgiving, here's one of my Thanksgiving traditions since high school...
alright, wait for it to come around again on the guitar and join in...with feeling (and four part harmony)!
-M
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Post by Jesse on Nov 22, 2018 19:24:20 GMT -5
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Post by The Captain on Nov 24, 2018 14:12:45 GMT -5
I saw the future last night, and it is going to be bad news for a lot of people.
After playing Magic The Gathering at my LGS for most of the day, I stopped by the closest McDonald's for a couple of burgers and some fries as a quick, eatable-in-the-car meal on my drive home. When I stepped inside, I noticed the front of the store had changed. The long front counter was gone, with just two cash registers there, and in the middle of the front of the restaurant, there were four large touchscreen kiosks. I stared at them for about 15 seconds, when a woman stepped out from behind the corner in the grill and asked if I was ready to order. When I told her I was, she said she could help me with the kiosk, but I declined, saying I would rather order at the counter. She said that normally they wouldn't do that, but since it was later in the evening and they weren't busy, she could do that for me.
This is it: the end of a large number of positions that were once great training grounds for high-school kids and secondary sources of income for married women (not being sexist, as all of my counter help when I was a manager for them 20 years ago were female) and which have morphed into positions that many used as one of a number of jobs they cobbled together to make ends meet. Now, we'll go into a McDonalds (and Wendy's, Burger King, Arby's, and many others will follow suit, to be certain), and we interface with a machine, then pay the person at the counter, of which they only need a couple of people even during peak times to complete the transaction.
Automation is on its way to replace those who don't have higher-level skills, and there are going to be a lot of people who will now have an even-harder time finding enough places to work to make even a subsistence-level amount of money.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 24, 2018 14:51:21 GMT -5
Automation is on its way to replace only those who have higher-level skills, and there are going to be a lot of people who will now have an even-harder time finding enough places to work to make even a subsistence-level amount of money. That is a huge problem for the future of any capitalist society, and I honestly have no idea how to address it. As our society becomes more and more advanced, employers will find it increasingly sound (economically speaking) to replace low-skill workers with machines. Unfortunately, since this happens across the board, we will soon have a surfeit of low-skilled workers with nothing to do. And naturally, as machines get more sophisticated, pretty soon even skilled workers will be less optimal than machines (after all, it's not enough that any company be profitable... it has to do as much money as possible). I can't see how such a system can long endure, even if up to now it has allowed an extraordinary economic development all over the world. Give it a few decades, and all the wealth will be in the hands of very, very few individuals (a process which has naturally begun a long time ago) and the rest will not only have little money, but won't even have the means to correct the situation. It's pretty scary. Scarier for those whose jobs are currently at risk, of course, but scary for everyone nevertheless. I'm very worried about my youngest, whose interest in anything resembling the acquisition of a professional skill is... dubious, to put it politely.
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Post by The Captain on Nov 24, 2018 16:13:55 GMT -5
Automation is on its way to replace only those who have higher-level skills, and there are going to be a lot of people who will now have an even-harder time finding enough places to work to make even a subsistence-level amount of money. That is a huge problem for the future of any capitalist society, and I honestly have no idea how to address it. As our society becomes more and more advanced, employers will find it increasingly sound (economically speaking) to replace low-skill workers with machines. Unfortunately, since this happens across the board, we will soon have a surfeit of low-skilled workers with nothing to do. And naturally, as machines get more sophisticated, pretty soon even skilled workers will be less optimal than machines (after all, it's not enough that any company be profitable... it has to do as much money as possible). I can't see how such a system can long endure, even if up to now it has allowed an extraordinary economic development all over the world. Give it a few decades, and all the wealth will be in the hands of very, very few individuals (a process which has naturally begun a long time ago) and the rest will not only have little money, but won't even have the means to correct the situation. It's pretty scary. Scarier for those whose jobs are currently at risk, of course, but scary for everyone nevertheless. I'm very worried about my youngest, whose interest in anything resembling the acquisition of a professional skill is... dubious, to put it politely. Thing is, this won't endure. Just like feudalism came crashing down and just like the French Revolution overthrew the monarchy and the aristocracy, when there are large numbers of people with idle hands and anger towards those who do not struggle to fill their bellies, clothe their bodies, and put a roof over their heads, there will eventually be an uprising. Will it happen in my lifetime? No, because there are just enough still in the middle class who have just enough to keep them satisfied, so while the lower-class citizenry may grumble and get upset, they typically do not have the skills or the means to foment any kind of action. However, once the former middle class gets involved, now you have people who usually have some measure of education and still some level of means, and that is when things will get interesting. As for my daughters, both are academically inclined, so I have less to worry about. My older daughter wants to be an interior designer, and my younger daughter either wants to be an architect or a structural engineer, so for both of them, their areas of interest require a modicum of creativity that cannot be replaced by a computer.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 16:34:55 GMT -5
That is a huge problem for the future of any capitalist society, and I honestly have no idea how to address it. As our society becomes more and more advanced, employers will find it increasingly sound (economically speaking) to replace low-skill workers with machines. Unfortunately, since this happens across the board, we will soon have a surfeit of low-skilled workers with nothing to do. And naturally, as machines get more sophisticated, pretty soon even skilled workers will be less optimal than machines (after all, it's not enough that any company be profitable... it has to do as much money as possible). I can't see how such a system can long endure, even if up to now it has allowed an extraordinary economic development all over the world. Give it a few decades, and all the wealth will be in the hands of very, very few individuals (a process which has naturally begun a long time ago) and the rest will not only have little money, but won't even have the means to correct the situation. It's pretty scary. Scarier for those whose jobs are currently at risk, of course, but scary for everyone nevertheless. I'm very worried about my youngest, whose interest in anything resembling the acquisition of a professional skill is... dubious, to put it politely. Thing is, this won't endure. Just like feudalism came crashing down and just like the French Revolution overthrew the monarchy and the aristocracy, when there are large numbers of people with idle hands and anger towards those who do not struggle to fill their bellies, clothe their bodies, and put a roof over their heads, there will eventually be an uprising. Will it happen in my lifetime? No, because there are just enough still in the middle class who have just enough to keep them satisfied, so while the lower-class citizenry may grumble and get upset, they typically do not have the skills or the means to foment any kind of action. However, once the former middle class gets involved, now you have people who usually have some measure of education and still some level of means, and that is when things will get interesting. As for my daughters, both are academically inclined, so I have less to worry about. My older daughter wants to be an interior designer, and my younger daughter either wants to be an architect or a structural engineer, so for both of them, their areas of interest require a modicum of creativity that cannot be replaced by a computer. I think your daughters -- are playing safe and chose careers that requires creativity and not being replaced by a computer and I learned that through a family friend of mine that your older daughter wants to be an interior designer and that's career is a smart one. She already doing that and she employes herself at IKEA and hired by IKEA and she makes a nice income helping people designing Kitchens, Bathrooms, and everything else and doing quite well. Structural Engineering is a hot job on the West Coast in places like Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles -- because those areas are earthquake prone in terms of buildings and what not and if you have the ability to make them safe for human to occupied them in terms of your knowledge of modifying them ... you will be in high demand for your services. If your younger daughter wants to do both and design buildings that are safe from Earthquakes and all that ... she will have a bright future. Your daughters -- are smart in their thinking about their future and playing it safe.
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 25, 2018 1:01:33 GMT -5
It's funny, we invented all these systems and things to start with, invented money, and then they take on some weird life of their own after generations, we loosen the reins or unleash things to stimulate and off we go again to some kind of strange out of control crisis or other. We made things to serve us, to fulfill human beings, ourselves and others. The thing that is finite and dated is the growth economy model, we could've graduated to a sustainable regulated economy long before now with less pollution and less crude destruction of precious environment which no amount of our made up money can ever recreate properly. By now we could've learned and gotten rid of the wild swings of the pendulum. We have more than enough date about what works and what never has or will. Balance not ever-expansion like some Mr. Creosote... when will that last mint wafer at the end blow things up?
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,081
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Post by Confessor on Nov 25, 2018 3:13:37 GMT -5
Technology's a wonderful thing and the technological marvels we have today and will have in the not too distant future are a wonder to behold. But it has long seemed to me that there are a tiny percentage of millionaire technocrats getting extremely wealthy by designing machines to put the rest of us out of work. As somebody earlier in this thread said, that's a wholly unsustainable model and it will bring us a lot of pain and suffering down the road, mark my words.
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 25, 2018 7:58:48 GMT -5
I keep hearing the first jobs to go are going to be the driving ones. That's why the car companies are so hot to perfect self driving cars.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 8:21:56 GMT -5
Technology's a wonderful thing and the technological marvels we have today and will have in the not too distant future are a wonder to behold. But it has long seemed to me that there are a tiny percentage of millionaire technocrats getting extremely wealthy by designing machines to put the rest of us out of work. As somebody earlier in this thread said, that's a wholly unsustainable model and it will bring us a lot of pain and suffering down the road, mark my words. It is unsustainable. Who will buy the goods and services the machines produce if no one has jobs/income to buy them!?
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Post by hondobrode on Nov 25, 2018 8:48:21 GMT -5
Michael James is exactly right.
These same fears were exerted with automation on the assembly line of cars.
The machines aren't perfect and need to be repaired. There are lots of jobs in any technical field like that. In fact, they can't find enough people for those fields.
When was the last time you talked with a telephone operator ? They have moved to different fields.
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 25, 2018 8:51:45 GMT -5
The youth of today must shift their focus to these different types of jobs. That's if they want to work...
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 25, 2018 9:47:22 GMT -5
The youth of today must shift their focus to these different types of jobs. That's if they want to work... That is good advice for our youth... but no matter what we might hope for, not everyone can become a computer engineer... in fact, not all of us can learn how to even read properly. I worry for our fellow citizens who won’t be able to adapt to an increasingly automated world. Oh, sure, there will always be useful jobs that anyone could hold; but will they pay enough? Already today, many jobs pay a pittance even when they’re unpleasant. Logically we’d expect jobs that nobody wants to pay more, precisely to attract candidates, even low-skilled ones... but since these don’t have a choice, they accept any conditions. I don’t know how to resolve the problem, but since self-reliance is an important cornerstone of personal dignity, I believe that as a society we should try to make sure that some kind of decent work will always be available for our citizens, even if it means being globally less efficient. We are still far from the Star Trekky concept of a society whose main goal is individual development rather than the acquisition of riches! (I’m not even sure such a system would work, barring a radical change in human mentality).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 5:25:15 GMT -5
Cable and Technology
I've spent a good 3-4 hours with my nephew today trying to get my Cable Box hooked up so I can used Closed Captioning and the box that the Cable Company gave us was defected and must get a new one in a week from now. So, I can't record shows anymore because the cable box is out and only can be used to change channels.
So, I made a valid point to the Cable Company and they will give me a new box for free and knocked off $25 off of my monthly expenses and gave me free internet service from December to May -- 6 months worth and after that; they will charge me $15.00 a month for internet, cable box, and additional services like free HBO for 6 months starting when my new box is hooked up properly.
Anyway, I have to wait another week to get this thing fixed.
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