shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 17, 2017 7:35:09 GMT -5
In sharing this thread on facebook, I've encountered A LOT of diehard fans of this series. I hope a few will chime in and offer some insight as to what they love so much about this series. It would make an interesting counterpoint.
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 17, 2017 11:28:52 GMT -5
Invaders #5Synposis: The Invaders trash a munitions factory here in the US, then warn America that they need to bow before the Third Reich. What's happening? Well, we see in a flashback that during a War Bonds parade, a giant image of The Red Skull appeared in the sky, and when the Invaders flew up to attack it, they vanished, only to reappear later as thralls. Only Bucky escaped this fate, because everyone considers him useless. After the flashback, he tries to formulate a plan, but everyone tells him to screw off. So he does. To Be Continued!My Notes: This issue does feature a section in the middle where the Invaders discuss the possibility of other costumed heroes either joining them, or forming another team. Thus it's pretty clear at the end that Bucky's plan is to gather up the other costumed heroes from Timely's Golden Age and get their help. This is made more obvious by the fact that this story is continued in the next issue of Marvel Premiere, which features the debut of the Liberty Legion. Roy is really doubling down here, trying to get a second title of Golden Age heroes going for him to play with, but that's not going to end up happening. Still, it means this storyline is going to go on for at least three more issues. Surprisingly little is happening in this comic. The first third is the team trashing the munitions plant, which I'm pretty sure could have been shown in two pages for the same effect. The middle third is talking about the other heroes and planning the parade, and the final third is the team fighting a giant cloud that looks like Red Skull. There's just a massive amount of utterly pointless fight scenes. I don't mind action, but this isn't really action, because nothing much is truly happening. It's spectacle without purpose. This issue features another awesome cover by Jack Kirby, with some jarringly different faces drawn by whomever - Romita, I assume. They just stick out like a sore thumb on this Kirby composition. I wish they would stop monkeying with his art, it just doesn't help anyone. And speaking of art, the interior art here is by Rich Buckler, doing his best Kirby impersonation, no doubt with the help of actual traced Kirby panels. It's okay, but kind of Marvel house style boring. My Grade: another C-. Is this a possible disadvantage of working via the "Marvel Method?" Artist stretches out a sequence (or on the other hand, might give too little space to one) than the writer thought necessary? Crimebuster, I'm enjoying your reviews. I like that the synopses are brief and the analyses detailed. I haven't read these issues since they came out, so this is a nice walk in the past for me. I remember enjoying the Invaders primarily because I loved seeing the Timely Golden Age heroes and the World War Two action. Although Roy's overwriting was tedious at times, I don't think it was ever as bad as the nadir -- America vs. the JSA -- and I felt happy for him that he could indulge his continuity fetish. The other attraction about seeing him let loose in the Timely Golden Age playground was that, unlike DC, the heroes beyond the Big Three were so little-known (and so weird, for the most part), that it was fun to see him not jsut resurrect them, but also make them somewhat less laughable than they would have been in the hands of a less caring writer. Wait till you get to the Liberty Legion! The Thin Man! Jack Frost! Blue Diamond! Huzzah!
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Post by tingramretro on Feb 17, 2017 12:22:44 GMT -5
In sharing this thread on facebook, I've encountered A LOT of diehard fans of this series. I hope a few will chime in and offer some insight as to what they love so much about this series. It would make an interesting counterpoint. From my POV, it's that I love the Golden Age characters and everything about that period of history, and actually really enjoy Roy's obsession with continuity and making things fit together; I'm aware I'm probably in the minority there, but it appeals to the obsessive side of my nature. I'm also a huge fan of Frank Robbins's art.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Feb 17, 2017 17:17:43 GMT -5
Marvel Premiere #29Synopsis: Bucky barges in on The Patriot while he's doing a radio broadcast, and they send out a message to all of America's superheroes to come meet them. Whizzer, Miss America, Thin Man, Red Raven, and Blue Diamond are all fighting Nazi saboteurs when they get the message. After beating those Bundites, the heroes gather and are joined by Jack Frost. Bucky explains his plan - wander around aimlessly until the Invaders fight them - and they all go rushing off into the night! To Be Continued!My Notes: Right away we see the benefits of working with lesser known characters. Even though a quarter of the issue is spent on quick recaps of each hero's origin story, Roy still gets to do more character work with the other heroes in one issue than he has been able to do with the Invaders in 6. The fact thatthe readers don't know these characters means he has to actually establish who they are, and do it quickly, in the context of action sequences. As a result. this issue feels much denser than the Invaders issues so far, because things are actually happening. Instead of a seven page fight sequence that tells us maybe one thing - the good guys are now bad guys! - we get a four page fight sequence that establishes the personalities and backstories of two different heroes while also advancing the main plot. This is a big step up. Blue Diamond in particular gets a lot of work done, partially because he's alone in his segment where the others are sharing the spotlight, and partially, i think, because he's even more obscure than the other heroes. The one who gets the short shaft is Jack Frost, as he only appears on the next to last page. But otherwise, I'm much more interested in reading about these guys than the main heroes in Invaders, who are so thoroughly established that Roy hasn't seen the need to do any character bits with any of them at all yet, other than maybe one or two panels with Bucky. Roy writes a whole page explaining the origin of the team, and as usual, overthinks everything about it, but it is interesting to see how and why he chose the heroes he did. Some of it is so specific it's almost funny - for instance, he didn't use Blazing Skull because in the original Golden Age comics, the Blazing Skull mostly worked overseas instead of in America, so he's a better fit for the Invaders than the Liberty Legion, which is coneived of as homefront heroes. Worrying about continuity details like that, which literally nobody else in the whole world even knows about, much less cares about, is so Roy Thomas. It's great, except the fact that he lets it limit his creative choices is unfortunate - but also very Roy Thomas. Another Kirby cover, this time with most of his faces intact! Interior art is by Don Heck, so it's very solid, but in terms of a crossover, the art is starting to get all over the place here. My Grade: B
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Post by tingramretro on Feb 17, 2017 17:26:27 GMT -5
I loved the Liberty Legion, particularly Red Raven and Blue Diamond. I want them back!
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Feb 17, 2017 17:38:36 GMT -5
Invaders #6 Synopsis: The Liberty Legion goes on a well-publicized rampage, shutting down Nazi saboteurs all along the East Coast. The Red Skull gets angry, and after some exposition about how he got some of brain Drain's equipment and used it to brainwash the heroes, he sends the Invaders out to take out the Liberty Legion. Well, sort of - for some reason, he splits the team up, so the LL has to split up as well. In each fight, the Liberty Legion wins because of that old trope that brainwashed heroes can't fight as well because their minds are resisting of whatever, but in each case the Invaders manage to get away anyhow. Except Toro, who is captured. Then, suddenly, the Human Torch shows up at the radio station where Thin Man and Bucky are coordinating the resistance. Oh nooooooo! To Be Continued!!My Notes: This is a classic all-action issue, with a Gardner Fox style "split up into smaller teams" adventure. It's fine for what it is. I liked the part at the beginning where the Legion is establishing their cred. The Red Skull exposition section was boring as hell, and then the rest was just okay fighting stuff. Still, this storyline is a step up from the stories before it. At least, so far; if a magic tornado appears at the end of the next issue and defeats the Red Skull, I might change my mind. Another action packed Kirby cover, though it loses something with the white background. The last couple issues have really popped, color-wise. The interior art is back to Frank Robbins, who I am still digging so far. The lettercolumn is dedicated to four fans writing in to "correct" trivial "mistakes" in the book in the hopes of getting a No-Prize, but of course, one does not simply correct Roy Thomas. He explais in didactic detail why each is wrong before showing them the door. Fun? My Grade: B-
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Feb 17, 2017 17:57:44 GMT -5
Marvel Premiere #30Synopsis: The Human Torch was just passing by on his way back to Skull's headquarters, so that was a false alarm. Skull changes into his fake secret identity - the guy who put on the parade in Invaders #5 - and checks in on what the Liberty Legion is doing. They trick him into thinking they've freed Toro from his hypnosis. For some reason, this causes Skull to issue a challenge to the LIberty Legion to battle the Invaders to the death in Yankee Stadium. For no good reason on god's green Earth, someone sells tickets to the event, so the crowd is filled with fans cheering on... death itself? Anyway, the two teams fight, but during the fight, Bucky frees the real Toro. See, he's figured out that they have some sort of homing message implanted in them, so he figures Toro will lead them to Skull's base. Why they didn't do this earlier, I have no idea. In a truly unfortunate turn of events for the Skull, his new headquarters is a zeppelin, and when Toro arrives, he accidentally blows the airship straight to hell. THE END!!! My Notes: Okay, once again the ending was basically random happenstance - Bucky had no idea Skull was flying in a zeppelin, so the explosion that ends the fight is pure luck. On the plus side, though, it was really funny. I appreciate the fight in Yankee Stadium bit. It's hilariously goofy. It's also not the only time we've seen big fights take place in Yankee Stadium. I'm sure I read some Superman story that has a fight at Yankee Stadium, but more to the point, Red Skull himself has another fight there later on in the pages of Captain America, a fistfight with Kingpin at home plate that goes very badly for him. Anyone think of other superhero showdowns that took place in Yankee Stadium? Some of the plot twists in this issue didn't make much sense to me. I didn't really follow why they did the whole ruse with Toro, or why they humored Skull in his disguised form when we later learn they knew it was him. Red Skull is standing in the room with you! And you have six people with superpowers completely surrounding him! Maybe grab him?! I guess they might have been afraid to do anything until they rescued the Invaders, but then again, capturing Skull could have sped that along. The whole "Skull is the guy from the parade" bit was also a non-starter, as it was totally obvious in #5, and had no real impact on this story. Roy does put in a footnote that everyone who guessed it was hereby awarded a No-Prize, which is hilarious considering he meticulously shot down every legitimate attempt to get one in the last lettercolumn. Yet another great Kirby cover, I am digging these. Interior art by Heck again. My Grade: C+
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Feb 17, 2017 20:24:22 GMT -5
So, I'm going to keep going with the Invaders reviews, even though the stories are a bit disappointing. They're fast, anyway, and the last arc was one small step in the right direction, plus the next arc is where I think things might start getting good.
However, it's easy to burn out in these review threads, so in order to keep things fresh I've decided I'll be running two or three different smaller runs simultaneously, swapping back and forth between them depending on what strikes my fancy.
Hopefully you'll be interested in the next addition to the reviews, as it's another title I've been curious about for a long time but have never actually read...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 20:29:12 GMT -5
So, I'm going to keep going with the Invaders reviews, even though the stories are a bit disappointing. They're fast, anyway, and the last arc was one small step in the right direction, plus the next arc is where I think things might start getting good. However, it's easy to burn out in these review threads, so in order to keep things fresh I've decided I'll be running two or three different smaller runs simultaneously, swapping back and forth between them depending on what strikes my fancy. Hopefully you'll be interested in the next addition to the reviews, as it's another title I've been curious about for a long time but have never actually read... I do the same thing. Just focusing on one series can be too much. I find it easier to alternate between different series.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Feb 17, 2017 20:49:40 GMT -5
Hero for Hire #1Synopsis: Anyone who has seen Luke Cage on Netflix has the basic origin story, which is taken from this issue, but if not, here it is. Some time ago, a man named Lucas was being held in Seagate prison. Turns out he was framed by his best friend Willis Stryker after they had a falling out over a woman named Reva, who later was killed by gang members aiming for Stryker. Now Lucas is trying to get out so he can get his revenge. A scientist offers him a chance to earn early parole by participating in an experiment, but a crooked guard sabotages the experiment in an attempt to kill Lucas. Instead, Lucas gains super powers. The guard is seriously injured in the process, though; worried he'll be held accountable, Lucas smashes down the wall and flees the prison. Now, he arrives in New York and after getting a reward for stopping a thief, he decides to make some money by hiring himself out as a superhero under the assumed name "Luke Cage." Meanwhile, he's searching for Stryker - who now controls the local criminal element under the name Diamondback. And Diamondback is looking for this "Luke Cage," never dreaming it's his old friend Lucas... My Notes: boy, this is absolutely jam packed. Archie Goodwin is the writer, and he really crams this issue with stuff. The superhero sheen only comes in at the very end, almost as an afterthought, and frankly seems almost unnecessary. This is a classic revenge tale, and could have been done with no powers, costumes, or code names and still have been compelling. It's really a step above. Now, we'll see how long that lasts. Marvel during this period had a track record in my book of putting together really excellent first issues and then dropping the ball with subsequent stories. This issue actually reminds me a lot in a weird way of The Cat #1, which came out around the same time. That was a great origin issue, absolutely crammed with details, character work, pathos, and action. And then the next three issues sucked and it was cancelled. Obviously, this series lasted 125 issues, so I'm guessing it didn't go downhill as far or as fast as The Cat. But can they deliver on the great promise of this issue? I should note that I am not a big fan of the TV series, so while almost everything in this comic was also in the show, I found the comic to be much, much better. Art is by George Tuska, with Billy Graham on inks. I'n not that familiar with Graham's work, but a quick google brings up some interesting stuff. He was African-American, and later penciled and co-plotted the series as well, co-writing some issues. He started at Warren, so I wonder if Goodwin brought him over. He eventually left the book to work on Black Panther with Don McGregor. Hmm! My Grade: A
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Feb 17, 2017 21:16:09 GMT -5
Hero for Hire #2Synopsis: Some of Diamondback's goons try to shake down Luke, but he stomps them. A doctor named Claire Temple sees it, and brings him to her clinic to treat his minor bruises. He's shocked to find that the doctor who performed the experiments on him in Seagate also works at the clinic! Unfortunately, Diamondback's men see Luke there and think he's working for the clinic, which they are trying to shut down. So they kidnap Claire. Cage rescues her, then faces off against Diamondback, who is outfitted with special knives that can hurt even Cage. One of them is an exploding knife. After a scuffle, Diamondback trips and falls through a skylight. His exploding knife blows up on impact and kills him. Luke is like, "really?!" but before he can worry about his cheated revenge, Claire and the doctor show up with the cops. Are they there to bring him back to Seagate? To Be Continued!My notes: Spoilers for the TV show follow!!
A ton of stuff from the show is taken from this issue. The clinic being targeted because of Cage's involvement mirrors the fate of the barber shop. Diamonback's special knives turn into the special bullets he uses to shoot Cage. Claire Temple is, of course, Rosario Dawson's character in the Netflix universe. Essentially, the last half of the series is based on this issue. They really strip mined this story within an inch of its life! They also dragged things out on the show too far - instead of ending it too soon, which they did in this comic - and added a bunch of highly implausible nonsense about them secretly being brothers. And on the show, it's a total, random coincidence that they end up facing off against each other, while in the comic, Cage is actively searching for Diamondback, which makes way, way more sense plotwise. Overall, I found this two-parter to be much more satisfying and better written than the show. There's an extended flashback retelling his origin from last issue, but they fill in some details during it, expanding on the bit where he picks out his costume and changes his name, which is glossed over in like 2 panels in the first issue. This time, he goes into a costume shop, where the guy first tries to sell him a Captain Marvel - the original, big red cheese - costume instead. That was a nice nod. The pacing felt a bit off to me. After all the pathos of the setup with the revenge story, the end of the tale was really abrupt. Diamondback blowing himself up with his own knife was funny, but not very satisfying; he was set up to be a major adversary going forward for Cage, so I was surprised they ditched him so fast. His death wasn't totally convincing, so I won't be surprised if and when he returns, but I liked the idea of him as more of an ongoing presence. Same creative team as last issue. This cover is okay, not as great as last issue, but I do so love the picture frame era of Marvel cover design. Finally, the book is still bi-monthly for the time being. We'll see how long that lasts. It explains why they felt the need to do such a long, detailed retelling of his origin in the middle of this issue. My Grade: B
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 17, 2017 23:10:13 GMT -5
Personally, I found the Liberty Legion rather bland and disappointing. I kept missing their appearances, until I was in college, and found those issues. They did nothing for me, apart from Miss America, the Patriot and Whizzer. it's no surprise then, that they are the only ones Roy would really reuse (other than seeing the entire bunch as prisoners, in a future story). Patriot got reused, to good effect, in What If, as they detail how Captain America appears in post-war Timely comics, which then became actual continuity, rather than alternate history. I think Roy made better use of the Destroyer, down the road.
You are getting to the good stuff, though. The introduction of Union Jack, Baron Blood and Spitfire adds a lot to the series. Roy is slowly putting together his Nazi Justice league, with Master Man (Superman), U-Man (Aquaman), Baron Blood (Batman) and Warrior Woman (Wonder Woman). He would, then, also create analogs for the Avengers, with the Blue Bullet (Iron Man), Golem (Hulk), Thor (well, Thor, actually) and his homage to the Quality characters, who became the Freedom Fighters, at DC. He even engages in an unofficial crossover, as the Freedom Fighters appear as the Crusaders, in the Invaders book, and the Invaders characters appear in Freedom Fighters, as pawns of the Silver Ghost (who masquerades as the Americommando, the Cap analog). It gets further meta as the comic fans who are turned into the Invader analogs are named Arch, Lennie, Marvin and Roy. The Invaders analogs are also known as the Crusaders.
Like I said before, the draw for e was the WW2 setting, the integration of actual history (comics and real world), and the basic 60's action war movie style of the plots. The Invaders were superhero commandos and it made for exciting stuff; especially as we get to the end of that first year and into the second, with their run-in with master Man and Warrior Woman, and Adolf Hitler!
I do think the series did drop off in quality after that Berlin adventure, especially after Frank Robbins left. The visuals were less dynamic and Roy got a little preachy, with the subject of the internment camps and the introduction to Golden Girl (as well as the African-American Human Top), who joins Bucky and Toro, as the Kid Commandos. I think Roy had a better handle on that kind of thing in All-Star Squadron.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 17, 2017 23:38:57 GMT -5
I had no idea the Luke Cage show followed the comic at all, never mind that closely.. I'm mostly only read later ones with Iron Fist around. I loved the show, though, so I wonder if I'd like it as much as you did.
The Invaders are about to get good... I never really liked the Liberty Legion, but Roy seemed to need them to exist to justify the Invaders being in Europe.. and in Europe is where they should be, so that's good.
Robbins isn't bad all the time, be when he is, he's very, very bad. I suspect some of the later issues were rushed, but maybe he just lost interest.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 23:42:46 GMT -5
Sweet Christmas I love those early Luke Cage books. I read 1-47 last year (stopped just before the 3 part Iron Fist cross-over that lead to the book becoming PM/IF). It can get very uneven with changes in creative teams, but for the most part it is a really fun ride, a Bronze Age roller coaster of fun in the merry Marvel tradition. There's an occasional stinker, but those are usually isolated issues, not long stretches of the book.
At some point this year, I plan to dive in to the PM/IF era too.
-M
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Post by Rob Allen on Feb 21, 2017 17:58:06 GMT -5
This is amazing. Thanks for sharing it! I bet Roy Thomas would love to hear that story. Isn't Rob Allen or Cei-U in touch with him? Both of us have corresponded with Roy - Kurt much more than I - but I've just found that Roy's email address is on the TwoMorrows website's "Contact Us" page, so anyone who wants to send him something can do it. Also, I don't think anyone has told the story of how one member of the Liberty Legion retired from superheroing, moved to California's Central Valley and planted an orchard...
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