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Post by rom on Apr 14, 2017 21:58:40 GMT -5
Brian Michael Bendis' Torso (a true crime story) and Jinx are amazing crime noir-ish comic series. And, I attest that these are far superior to any of the Marvel super-hero books he later wrote for.
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Post by berkley on Apr 14, 2017 22:02:28 GMT -5
I loved Ennis's superhero satire in The Boys, but in the Punisher, from the bits I've seen, he falls into the trap of making the Punisher just as obnoxious as the superheroes hes satirising. Ennis's Punisher looks as annoyingly superior and unbeatable as everyone else's Batman. But this is based on previews and excerpts, so it could be an inaccurate impression. I have not read Ennis's Punisher Marvel Knights run, but in the MAX series Frank is depicted as very skilled and tough, but still beatable. He actually really gets the crap kicked out of him a few times. That,s encouraging. Maybe I'll give it a shot sometime. I'm not a great fanof the Punisher but I'm a fan of Ennis's solo stuff, though I tend to stay away from his Marvel work. |
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bran
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Post by bran on Apr 15, 2017 2:38:43 GMT -5
Batman may not be the best example as he has no super-powers, just like Punisher. Definitely - it's not every-man's Superman.
Occasional satire is not really ill-fated, it's tongue-in-cheek, and it's broader than "being unbeatable" aspect. For example - the hard truth is: Common thug is a God and common men are cowardly. Alien creature (or human with super-powers) is just a small man's fantasy on how to stop it (via proxy no less). He kind of plays of that, it's certainly not a comfort-fiction.
Steven Grant's Punisher is also in more realistic setting, more compatible with Ennis's (crime/noir).
Chuck Dixon's run, and I haven't read all of it, would be let's say action/crime. He even made a western version (art - full Buscema) - A Man Named Frank.
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Post by rom on Apr 15, 2017 9:35:55 GMT -5
Garth Ennis's Punisher is pretty much a classic crime (with dark humor, social commentary and even super-heroes genre satire). Starts with "Welcome Back, Frank", the rest is history. Here, Punisher killing his opponent with the most lethal weapon of all - a morbidly obese neighbor  : I'm thinking that the obese neighbor that lived in Frank Castle's apartment complex in the 2004 Punisher film (starring Thomas Jane) was probably based on this comic character. The film was OK - I didn't like it the first time I saw this, but when I re-watched it I appreciated it somewhat more. I strongly preferred the Punisher: War Zone film that came out in the later 200X's, however - PWZ reminded me a lot more of the Punisher comics than the 2004 film. |
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Post by lobsterjohnson on Apr 15, 2017 19:18:52 GMT -5
Quite a few of Matt Wagner's comics would fit this thread pretty well. I've really enjoyed his work on the Green Hornet and the Shadow for Dynamite comics. DC is currently re-collecting Sandman Mystery Theatre too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 11:09:57 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2017 11:25:16 GMT -5
I have not. I only read print. I was aware of the 50's Sam Hill. If DeFalco wrote an updated version it was probably decent. I see it isn't due out until next year. I doubt we will ever see it given Archie Comics' track record with releasing their Red (Dark) Circle Imprint material. |
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Post by berkley on Apr 21, 2017 12:11:54 GMT -5
Batman may not be the best example as he has no super-powers, just like Punisher. Definitely - it's not every-man's Superman. Occasional satire is not really ill-fated, it's tongue-in-cheek, and it's broader than "being unbeatable" aspect. For example - the hard truth is: Common thug is a God and common men are cowardly. Alien creature (or human with super-powers) is just a small man's fantasy on how to stop it (via proxy no less). He kind of plays of that, it's certainly not a comfort-fiction. Steven Grant's Punisher is also in more realistic setting, more compatible with Ennis's (crime/noir). Chuck Dixon's run, and I haven't read all of it, would be let's say action/crime. He even made a western version (art - full Buscema) - A Man Named Frank. That's the thing, though - even though he's meant to have no superpowers, effectively Batman does have them because of the way the character is written. He's as much of a fantasy as Superman, perhaps more so for the very reason that it's supposed to be an "ordinary" man that's doing all this outrageous stuff. Hence my suspicion that the Punisher was also being used as just the kind of "small man's fantasy" you mention. |
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bran
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Post by bran on Apr 21, 2017 13:37:19 GMT -5
How could I forget this, enter one and only - Kelly Green:   Now she is not exactly a cup (or a criminal), she acts as a "go in between". Not only by her trade, but story-wise and esthetically KG does not follow some of the already established forms in books or cinema. It's a comic book story all trough and trough, books and cinema can only do a copycat job (and so they did). |
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Post by berkley on Apr 21, 2017 15:55:59 GMT -5
Now that looks good. Interesting to see a comic by two American creators done for a French publisher. Are there many other instances of this happening?
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bran
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Post by bran on Jun 16, 2017 7:42:43 GMT -5
Batman may not be the best example as he has no super-powers, just like Punisher. Definitely - it's not every-man's Superman. Occasional satire is not really ill-fated, it's tongue-in-cheek, and it's broader than "being unbeatable" aspect. For example - the hard truth is: Common thug is a God and common men are cowardly. Alien creature (or human with super-powers) is just a small man's fantasy on how to stop it (via proxy no less). He kind of plays of that, it's certainly not a comfort-fiction. Steven Grant's Punisher is also in more realistic setting, more compatible with Ennis's (crime/noir). Chuck Dixon's run, and I haven't read all of it, would be let's say action/crime. He even made a western version (art - full Buscema) - A Man Named Frank. That's the thing, though - even though he's meant to have no superpowers, effectively Batman does have them because of the way the character is written. He's as much of a fantasy as Superman, perhaps more so for the very reason that it's supposed to be an "ordinary" man that's doing all this outrageous stuff. Hence my suspicion that the Punisher was also being used as just the kind of "small man's fantasy" you mention. No it's not - just the opposite. Punisher is thug for thugs and that's why he defeats them, not because he is a hero or noble (let alone super-hero). He is more brutal than them, he cheats more etc, which puts an interesting spin on the whole thing. (So thugs need to dream up few super-heroes to protect them so to speak. You may even feel sorry for them occasionally.) As I mentioned above that's only Punisher as written by Grant, Dixon, Ennis, plus Rucka, Aaron which is what 1% of total Punisher. All things considered even that "1%" is not old-style/classic crime, it's a different beast, but compatible. |
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bran
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Post by bran on Jun 16, 2017 7:54:39 GMT -5
Marked Man by Howard Chaykin. Maybe not exactly old style, quite good.  |
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