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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 6, 2018 11:05:19 GMT -5
I really liked Sum of all Fears as well.. .It's been a while, but I remember it being really plausible, yet still a great read, (I was, of course, like 17 when I read it, so maybe it wouldn't feel like it if I re-read it).
I also thought it was clever (though quite ridiculous) that he made his CIA spook President over time.. I haven't read any of the recent ones with his son as the spy, but it's fun.
I don't really know much about him as a person, but I've dealt with plenty of authors and I know the type you speaking of.. my experience is either they are awesome people who appreciate nearly every single time someone buys a book of theirs, or complete a-holes who think they are god's gift to the universe. Sounds like he was the latter, whihc is a shame, but doesn't suprise me based on the crazy pic with the military gear on the books (as you say)
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 6, 2018 11:52:40 GMT -5
I always found Clancy completely unreadable. I could watch movies made from his books. But the books themselves were not my cuppa.
WEB Griffin...I read three or four of his Brotherhood of War series...probably in high school. I'd classify them as soap operas for wanna-be macho men. I can see the Mac Bolan comparison, I recall Bolan and Remo Williams as being mostly one-and-dones and Griffins series seem to keep the characters coming back for more soapish shenanigans. Kinda like superhero funny books. I haven't had any real desire to revisit them in the ensuing thirty plus years.
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Post by berkley on Jan 6, 2018 21:26:23 GMT -5
I haven't read Clancy but a (not especially left wing) friend of mine attended a talk he gave once and said he was one of the biggest right-wing nut cases he'd ever come across - even more than you'd expect from reading his books.
I usually lean more towards the espionage or cloak and dagger sort of thriller rather than the military, but if Stephen Coonts is as good as Frederick Forsyth I might take a chance on one of his books sometime.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 6, 2018 22:03:17 GMT -5
I just came back from my mother’s where I saw a book I gave her several years back: Albert Sanchez Pinol’s Pandora in the Congo. That one should be read by any lover of Burroughs, Verne, and by literature as an art form. Like a Burroughs novel, it has high adventure, exoticism, romance, and lost civilizations... but it is far more than an adventure; like Yan Martel’s The life of Pi, Pandora in the Congo transcends its format and becomes a reflection on what a story is and on where fiction truly becomes more true than reality. Like Pinol’s other novel Cold skin, which was a brilliant exploration of horror with Lovecraftian echoes (but in which we find that the greatest horror is found in the human condition), Pandora in the Congo is one of my favourite books. Highly recommended!
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 6, 2018 23:32:34 GMT -5
I haven't read Clancy but a (not especially left wing) friend of mine attended a talk he gave once and said he was one of the biggest right-wing nut cases he'd ever come across - even more than you'd expect from reading his books. I usually lean more towards the espionage or cloak and dagger sort of thriller rather than the military, but if Stephen Coonts is as good as Frederick Forsyth I might take a chance on one of his books sometime. Coonts isn't quite in Forsyth's league, certainly not his early books (but, then Forsyth hasn't approached that level of writing in decades); but, he was enjoyable in his early books, which I read while in the military and just after getting out. Flight of the Intruder is an excellent military thriller, far better than that POS movie they did. I didn't continue after his third one; but, mostly because I kind of moved onto other literature. By that point, I had my fill of military adventure and espionage (with a few exceptions). Actually, I kind of got turned onto the Bernard Cornwell Sharpe books, thanks to the Sean Bean series, which was being shown on Masterpiece Theater, in the 90s. I picked up all of those and a few of his others. The man has never been in the military; but, he did his research and worked in real historical detail well. His end notes would fill you in on the real history and how he adapted it and what he made up completely. After reading his Sharpe's Waterloo, I was finally able to follow the events in the movie Waterloo, with Rod Steiger and Christopher Plummer. Wilbur Smith is one of the better writers in the adventure/thriller line, going way back. I have only read Dark of the Sun (after seeing the Rod Taylor movie); but, enjoyed it and he's been knocking out books since the 60s, at least. If you like pulpier stuff, Clive Cussler isn't bad, if a bit formulaic. A little can go a long way, though. Forsyth's 1960s work is fantastic and the 70s still had some good ones. By the 80s, I found him very hit and miss. Fist of God was a nice take on the Gulf War and I enjoyed Icon, though the twist ending was beyond silly. {Spoiler: Click to show} Only a Royalist would think that the return of the czar, even as a constitutional monarch, would ever be accepted by the Russian people. Clancy is one of the rare cases where I think the movies (the Harrison Ford and Sean Connery ones) are vastly better than the books. The movie guys condensed things to the essential plotlines and jettisoned the nonsense and usually got more of military and intelligence stuff right (for Hollywood, anyway). So far, I'm really enjoying Le Carre (about to start on Call of the Dead, his first) and am kind of itching to check out Graham Green's spy books. I can't get into modern thrillers, as much; way too dark, in a lot of cases, and I get enough of that in the real world.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jan 7, 2018 5:10:32 GMT -5
You pretty much can't miss with Graham Greene; of his espionage books, I would especially recommend The Quiet American (as good as everyone says it is, and much better than the - not bad - movie starring Michael Caine and Brendon Fraser) and The Human Factor, probably my favorite book by him.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 7, 2018 14:41:00 GMT -5
I always found Clancy completely unreadable. I could watch movies made from his books. But the books themselves were not my cuppa. Lost interest in the one I tried (Red Storm Rising) in one of his endlessly detailed descriptions of the tread mechanisms of Russian tanks. The guy must have had a rivet fetish.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 7, 2018 15:51:54 GMT -5
I always found Clancy completely unreadable. I could watch movies made from his books. But the books themselves were not my cuppa. Lost interest in the one I tried (Red Storm Rising) in one of his endlessly detailed descriptions of the tread mechanisms of Russian tanks. The guy must have had a rivet fetish. Red Storm Rising is one very long slog. You never come to care about any of the characters (which I found true for most of Clancy, as Jack Ryan is fairly one dimensional and even Clark is mostly a cypher). The plot is about as realistic as John Millius' Red Dawn (which also revolves on the Russians being morons). Around the same time was Harold Coyle's Team Yankee, which focuses on an armored unit, in a fictional WW3, centered around Germany. Coyle was a major in the US Army, when the book was written (and would go on to be a veteran of the Gulf War) and the book has a more authentic feel. It was adapted into comic books at First comics. Coyle took his inspiration from Gen. Sir John Hackett's World War 3: The Untold Story, which was also an influence of the style of Max Brooks' World War Z. The First Comics series had scripts from sci-fi author David Drake, who was an armored cavalry veteran of the Vietnam War (The Iron Horse), which influenced his military sci-fi series, Hammer's Slammers, about a futuristic mercenary armored unit.
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Post by berkley on Jan 7, 2018 21:05:49 GMT -5
I haven't read Clancy but a (not especially left wing) friend of mine attended a talk he gave once and said he was one of the biggest right-wing nut cases he'd ever come across - even more than you'd expect from reading his books. I usually lean more towards the espionage or cloak and dagger sort of thriller rather than the military, but if Stephen Coonts is as good as Frederick Forsyth I might take a chance on one of his books sometime. Coonts isn't quite in Forsyth's league, certainly not his early books (but, then Forsyth hasn't approached that level of writing in decades); but, he was enjoyable in his early books, which I read while in the military and just after getting out. Flight of the Intruder is an excellent military thriller, far better than that POS movie they did. I didn't continue after his third one; but, mostly because I kind of moved onto other literature. By that point, I had my fill of military adventure and espionage (with a few exceptions). Actually, I kind of got turned onto the Bernard Cornwell Sharpe books, thanks to the Sean Bean series, which was being shown on Masterpiece Theater, in the 90s. I picked up all of those and a few of his others. The man has never been in the military; but, he did his research and worked in real historical detail well. His end notes would fill you in on the real history and how he adapted it and what he made up completely. After reading his Sharpe's Waterloo, I was finally able to follow the events in the movie Waterloo, with Rod Steiger and Christopher Plummer. Wilbur Smith is one of the better writers in the adventure/thriller line, going way back. I have only read Dark of the Sun (after seeing the Rod Taylor movie); but, enjoyed it and he's been knocking out books since the 60s, at least. If you like pulpier stuff, Clive Cussler isn't bad, if a bit formulaic. A little can go a long way, though. Forsyth's 1960s work is fantastic and the 70s still had some good ones. By the 80s, I found him very hit and miss. Fist of God was a nice take on the Gulf War and I enjoyed Icon, though the twist ending was beyond silly. {Spoiler: Click to show} Only a Royalist would think that the return of the czar, even as a constitutional monarch, would ever be accepted by the Russian people. Clancy is one of the rare cases where I think the movies (the Harrison Ford and Sean Connery ones) are vastly better than the books. The movie guys condensed things to the essential plotlines and jettisoned the nonsense and usually got more of military and intelligence stuff right (for Hollywood, anyway). So far, I'm really enjoying Le Carre (about to start on Call of the Dead, his first) and am kind of itching to check out Graham Green's spy books. I can't get into modern thrillers, as much; way too dark, in a lot of cases, and I get enough of that in the real world. I read a lot of Alistair Maclean when I was a kid and still remember those books fondly. My favourites included Where Eagles Dare (must watch that movie version sometime), When Eight Bells Toll, and Puppet on a Chain (also made into a pretty successful movie), but they're all really good, exciting reads. Dennis Wheatley was another one I liked a lot - his Gregory Sallust series set in WWII was really good, with the first few books being written almost in "real-time", until Wheatley was assigned some war-effrt-related job. I think the only Forsyth I read back then was The Odessa File, which I believe isn't rated as highly as Day of the Jackal or the Dogs of War, but I liked it a lot. Le Carré is great. He really transcends the genre and his best books rank with the best literature of any kind of its time. I've just started getting into Graham Greene the last few years. So far I've read Stamboul Train, The Ministry of Fear, The Power and the Glory, and Our Man in Havana and they are all first-rate. Probably The Quiet American will be next.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 7, 2018 22:04:28 GMT -5
A little while back I finished an Alistair MacLean omnibus, with Guns of Navarone, Where Eagles Dare, Ice Station Zebra, Wen Eight Bells Toll and HMS Ulysses. I had previously read all but the last two. I enjoyed Ulysses, though it made me feel cold, reading it over my lunch hour (as did Ice Station Zebra). Didn't think as much of Eight Bells. MacLean was one who didn't evolve well, after the 60s (alcoholism didn't help).
Day of the Jackal is a terrific thriller that keeps you reading and on the edge. Dogs of War spends a lot of time on the build-up, before the payoff. Odessa File falls somewhere in between. His short story collections are often quite good. The Veteran has two out of three great stories, though the third left me cold. The first story is about the murder of an old man, living on the streets, who is killed by some skinheads. They are caught dead to rights, with witnesses who are testifying; but, a high priced lawyer gets them off, only for them to turn up dead in a canal. It turns out the lawyer was in the SAS with the old man and got them off to enact a deadlier revenge. The second story involves an elaborate con to get back at a crooked art dealer. His previous one, No Comebacks, is a pretty good collection.
Fourth Protocol was one of his better post-1960s novels. After that, his books are so-so. The Negotiator was a bit hard to swallow, as a premise; but, the Deceiver was a nice mix, mostly being short stories linked by a central linking device ( a review of an operative's case history, in front of a review board). Fist of God is way too long, but has great moments. Icon is an interesting idea, until the twist ending. didn't care for much beyond that (apart from the Veteran).
Forsyth's Biafra Story makes for fascinating, if one-sided reading, covering the Biafran separatist battle against the Nigerian government, in the 60s. Forsyth drank the kool aid and became a spokesman for the sepratists; but, he paints vivid pictured of Col Ojukwu, the Biafran leader, as well as the European mercenaries who fought for their cause (who inspired the characters in the Dogs of War.
Funny thing was, one of the things that took the place of my interest in espionage and military thrillers was as far away as you could get from them: PG Wodehouse. I caught the Jeeves and Wooster series on PBS, with Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie and loved it. I went out and found several of the story collections, with advertising copy related to the showing on PBS (same with the Sharpe books). I immediately fell in love with them. More and more, I found myself draw to lighter fare, like them, as well as Jasper fforde's work and especially Christopher Moore. Moore's Lamb is both the funniest and most interesting religion-related thing I have read in a long time. That helped lead me to Terry Pratchett, whose work I have devoured, up to his death and the final items. I treasure the copy of Thum I have, which was signed to me, by Pratchett, before his alzheimer's affected his ability to sign books.
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Post by berkley on Jan 8, 2018 0:37:51 GMT -5
I love PG Wodehouse. I'm a bit afraid to watch the Fry and Laurie tv version because so much of the charm of the stories is in the narrator's voice, but I really should try it one of these days. Have you tried anything besides the Jeeves and Wooster books? His other ongoing characters or series are really good too - Ukridge, Psmith, the Drones Club, Blandings, etc. I don't think I've read any of the stand-alones yet, that I can think of.
I think that Douglas Adams at his best can approach Wodehouse levels of cleverness but of course he was nowhere near as prolific or IMO as consistent, especially after the first thee Hitch-hiker books. But I imagine you've read him already.
Haven't read any of the other writers you mention but I intend to try some of them in the future - definitely Pratchett, probably Tom Sharpe, and also a guy named Robert Rankin, some of whose books been reviewed here by Slam Bradley, I believe. Lately I've been reading some earlier English humour, 19th century stuff. Jerome K. Jerome's Three men in a Boat, which you've probably heard of, is one of my favourites. Definitely worth a try if you haven't read it yet.
That reminds me - have you read the Flashman series? Historical adventures set in the High-Victorian era. It combines some of the lighter, more humorous kind of British writing with adventure-story thrills and well-researched historical interest. Highly recommended.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jan 8, 2018 4:04:03 GMT -5
Haven't read much by Forsyth (and I still haven't read Day of the Jackal), but Odessa File is my favorite of what I have read.
Agree that Wodehouse is awesome, and Berkley, I don't think watching the TV version of Jeeves and Wooster with Fry and Laurie will take anything away from your appreciation of the books (in my case, it was the TV show that led me to the books). It was such a well-made show, with excellent production values, sets, costumes, etc. and the overall tone is very true to Wodehouse's writing style. And since you're moving through Greene's books, let me echo my recommendations made to Cody above: by all means read Quiet American, and then make it a point to read The Human Factor. Like I said, it's bar far my favorite book by Greene.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 8, 2018 12:13:53 GMT -5
The Fry and Laurie series is excellent and really captures Wodehouse well (one of the select few productions that does). They are perfectly cast, as Fry is the master manipulator and all-around brain Jeevs, while Laurie excelled at playing the twit. The supporting cast are wonderful, though Madeline Basset's little girl voice will make you want to cut off your ears after too long (thankfully it is usually punctuated by a nice Bertie Wooster comment). Any time Roderick Spode is around is brilliant. I will say the fourth and final series of the program was weaker than the first three. Series 2 and 3 are really good, as they had their performances down and it covers a lot of Wodehouse's best stories.
I haven't cracked Psmith and Blandings or the Drones yet, though I want to. The problem of having been a bookseller for so long was having a huge to read pile; and, job-stresses kind of made me not want to read. Now that I'm out of that world and have a real lunch break, I do a heck of a lot more reading. I also pared down my library, when I moved, so there isn't as much taking precedent.
I have read Royal Flash (and seen the movie); but, haven't gotten around to the rest of it. I did have a copy of the first book for a while, which my dad read and enjoyed; but, I never got around to reading and gave to a library, on a previous move and book culling. Fraser also wrote the screenplay to my favorite version of the Three Musketeers, the Richard Lester film, with Oliver Reed and Michael York.
Pratchett makes for great reading, as he has different sets of characters, existing in the same world. Rincewind and the faculty of Unseen University are more pure fantasy (and satire of it); but, if you want something different, there are the Three Witches books. It started as a parody of MacBeth, then grew into parodies of fairytales, vampires, Phantom of the Opera, elves (especially Tolkien's versions) and other elements. The City Watch books are police procedurals and mysteries, with a police force that includes things like dwarves, trolls, a werewolf, and the probable rightful king of Ankh-Morpork. The Moist Von Lipwig books satirize modern social systems and concepts (though Raising Steam was a bit of a letdown, probably due to the latter stages of Pratchett's health). The standalones are great and the Death books get into quantum theory, philosophy, family and even rock and roll! The Tiffany Aching books are great for YA audiences or adults, especially fans of Harry Potter. Tiffany is a sharp young girl who studies to become a witch. Along the way, she must assume responsibility and take great steps towards adulthood. The Nac Mac Feegle (aka the Wee Free Men) add a ton of comedy, while Tiffany acts as a character of reason and growth.
Pratchett's stuff entertains; but, it also makes you think and examine ideas from a slightly altered viewpoint, bringing simple truths to you in ways that hit you as brilliant. The world lost a brilliant mind when he passed away.
I've read a bit of Adams; but, don't find him as funny or as enticing as others do. I find Pratchett engages me far more.
Kim Newman was one I discovered a few years ago, before leaving Barnes & Noble and have devoured his writing. His more pure horror isn't my cup of tea, though they are well written; but, his more fantasy/adventure/pulp stuff is right up my alley. His Diogenese Club books are a nice mix of the Avengers (Steed and Peel), Doctor Who and about a dozen other influences. The Anno Dracula books are right there with the League of Extraordinary Gentleman, minus the weirder bits. His Hound of the D'Urbevilles is a great dark mirror of Sherlock Holmes, centering on Moriarty and Col. Moran. Th Secrets of Driar Cliff Grange School is a nice take on both school stories and the idea of young superheroes, as the girls at the center all have special abilities. It's got some great pulp adventure, comedy, and well rounded characters. His Angels of Musik are pure pulp, creating a Charlie's Angels with the Phantom of the Opera and various female characters from classic literature (Irene Adler, Eliza Doolittle, Rima, Gigi, Trilby O'Farrel and others).
Along similar lines are the anthologies of the Tales of the Shadowmen series, from Jean-Marc and Randy Lofficier's Black Coat Books. They feature characters from French pulp literature and classic literature, in adventures and mysteries where other characters are thrown into the mix. There are crossovers, like Barbarella bedding and dumping Captain Kirk, Jeeves being pitted against Poirot, the origin of the Village, from the Prisoner (involving Sherlock Holmes, Winston Churchill and Nayland Smith), and a possible connection between the Shadow and Batman, which is uncovered by Judex, a cloaked avenger from French silent films (predating the Shadow). There is Doctor Omega, a time traveler that has much in common with Doctor Who; but predates him by a few decades. There is the Nyctalope, a sort of Bionic Man, long before Steve Austin. And, there are the classic characters Fantomas, Irma Vep and Arsene Lupin. Great stuff in every volume.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 8, 2018 12:18:01 GMT -5
Here's a nice sample of Jeeves and Wooster...
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 8, 2018 12:28:04 GMT -5
Jack of Shadows by Roger Zelazny Zelazny has a sliding scale of writing from the extremely experimental to the very commercial. When he hits a balance between the two it's classic and magic (Lord of Light, Nine Princes in Amber). When he strays too far to one end it can be a tough go on the experimental side (Creatures of Light and Darkness) or a light very fluffy commercial read (The millennial contest with Robert Sheckley). Jack of Shadows skews a tad to the commercial side of Zelazny. There are a few interesting things happening and the first third of the book is actually pretty good. But then it peters out. And the ending is wholly unsatisfying. The world that Jack inhabits doesn't turn. In the side toward the sun science prevails. The dark side is magical. Jack inhabits the border realm and has the ability to move through shadows. Which is a useful skill as Jack is a thief. None of this is terribly well defined. To avoid spoilers the story revolves around Jack seeking revenge for a pretty clear wrong. And it starts out entertaining, if not spectacular. But it peters out 1/3 to 1/2 way through and it's just a bit of a slog to get to the not terribly good ending. Probably worth a read if you're a Zelazny fan (I am). But not highly recommended.
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