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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 19:25:01 GMT -5
Read the first 50 pages or so of Sword of Shannara on the ride into work...I LOVED it as a teenager (IIRC, it was the 2nd fantasy novel I read), but boy does it read like medicore LoTR fan fiction now. I hope it I don't feel that way the whole way through. It could always be worse. You could be watching the MTV show.
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 27, 2016 12:59:28 GMT -5
yeah, I watched 1/2 of one episode... it was really awful.
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 27, 2016 13:04:02 GMT -5
Interesting. IIRC, the Harold Shea stories are pretty highly thought of, or at least were back in the day. I enjoyed them myself, though granted that would've been (unbelievably enough) around 40 years ago. Memory tells me (perhaps falsely) that the series debuted in the pages of the legendary fantasy pulp Unknown Worlds; I'll have to check that. Edit: Yep. The initial story, "The Roaring Trumpet," appeared in the May 1940 Unknown, back before Worlds was added to the name. The vintage stuff, of course, isn't for everyone. DeCamp was probably pretty much at the height of his powers back then, as Lest Darkness Fall had come out a few months earlier. From a quick glance, Pratt's pure fantasy works didn't start coming out till the decade was nearing an end. Maybe I was just in the wrong mood for it, but I really felt like it was just sorta empty compared to stuff like Burroughs, or the sci fi guys at the time. I like to have some social commentary in my classic fantasy and sci-fi, and this was just a straight on adventure, and a pedestrian one at that. Perhaps taken in the context of when it was written it reflects better... the fantasy genre has come a long way.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 29, 2016 23:39:15 GMT -5
Devil in the Grove: Thurgood Marshall, the Groveland Boys, and the Dawn of a New America by Gilbert King Wow!! What an incredible read. A look at the Groveland Case the book also delves peripherally into the work of Thurgood Marshall and the NAACP during the late 40s and into the 50s. At the same time that Marshall and his forces were representing four boys in Florida on clearly trumped up rape charge, he was perfecting the appeals that would result in the landmark case of Brown v. Board of Education, 347 U.S. 483 (1954). While on the one hand it is shocking to see the systemic injustice that resulted in the pretty clear murder of two of the four Groveland Boys, it seems sadly familiar. Things are better, but they still aren't good enough. This is truly a remarkable read, well deserving of its Pulitzer Prize for General Non-Fiction.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 8:28:46 GMT -5
As noted on FB, I read it when it was new (courtesy of the local library) & was as impressed as you are. I didn't realize it had won a Pulitzer, but that honor was richly deserved.
The violence reigning in Florida at that time was a revelation to me & probably to a lot of others. If memory serves, King provided stats showing more bombings there than in such seemingly far more likely suspects as Mississippi & Alabama. Maybe that sort of legacy is somehow part of the apparently deep moral decay that makes that state seem like even more than a hellhole than not only its fellow Deep South morasses but also Texas.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 31, 2016 12:47:00 GMT -5
As noted on FB, I read it when it was new (courtesy of the local library) & was as impressed as you are. I didn't realize it had won a Pulitzer, but that honor was richly deserved. The violence reigning in Florida at that time was a revelation to me & probably to a lot of others. If memory serves, King provided stats showing more bombings there than in such seemingly far more likely suspects as Mississippi & Alabama. Maybe that sort of legacy is somehow part of the apparently deep moral decay that makes that state seem like even more than a hellhole than not only its fellow Deep South morasses but also Texas. I was surprised at that as well. Though, as noted on FB, this was before the boom in people retiring in Florida and the Cuban diaspora changed Florida's demographics. One of the things that really struck me was the hatred of the crackers for Black veterans wearing their uniforms. It also gave rise to thoughts about the activism of returning black veterans of both World War II and Korea. Going from being treated well by the Europeans and, later, an integrated armed forces back to Jim Crow could not have sat well.
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Post by Prince Hal on May 31, 2016 13:40:03 GMT -5
As noted on FB, I read it when it was new (courtesy of the local library) & was as impressed as you are. I didn't realize it had won a Pulitzer, but that honor was richly deserved. The violence reigning in Florida at that time was a revelation to me & probably to a lot of others. If memory serves, King provided stats showing more bombings there than in such seemingly far more likely suspects as Mississippi & Alabama. Maybe that sort of legacy is somehow part of the apparently deep moral decay that makes that state seem like even more than a hellhole than not only its fellow Deep South morasses but also Texas. I was surprised at that as well. Though, as noted on FB, this was before the boom in people retiring in Florida and the Cuban diaspora changed Florida's demographics. One of the things that really struck me was the hatred of the crackers for Black veterans wearing their uniforms. It also gave rise to thoughts about the activism of returning black veterans of both World War II and Korea. Going from being treated well by the Europeans and, later, an integrated armed forces back to Jim Crow could not have sat well. I know I run the risk of sounding woefully reactive, but I have to say that I would be predisposed to be in favor of someone making an argument that we'd all be better off sans Florida and Texas (present Classic Forum members excluded, of course).
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 14:22:44 GMT -5
Of course we would. Ditto for far too much of the South, including all the places I've lived. Also Arizona, the only non-South place I've ever lived.
*sigh*
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 31, 2016 15:14:03 GMT -5
At the risk of being way off topic...I would love to watch as Texas tried to go it alone. I mention them specifically because they seem to be the ones who "oh so long to secede (as if it worked out so well for them the first time)". They don't seem to recognize that them leaving the union would mean that they lose a ton of military bases that pump a huge amount of money into their economy, the Johnson Space Center, potentially a ton of corporations that would otherwise then be foreign corporations, etc., etc.
Not to mention they would immediately be stuck between two much more powerful countries, both of which have claims on them. They'd be crying out for Uncle Sammy to take them back in short order.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 3, 2016 19:05:12 GMT -5
Of course we would. Ditto for far too much of the South, including all the places I've lived. Also Arizona, the only non-South place I've ever lived. *sigh* As long as we can keep Big Red soda and NASCAR, I'm totally fine with that The only thing that could possibly save Texas is the oil revenues, but that's not happening right now.. I suspect once the rednecks with shotguns realize defending the border isn't fun as a full time job they'd be back. Back to the books Sword of Shannara by Terry Brooks In my absence due to a work trip the sci fi book club at the library somehow picked this over Starship Troopers to read... I blame the TV show. My wife got through 1/2 a CD (of 22) of the audio before giving up... I decided to go ahead and re-read it. I read this long ago... it was the 2nd fantasy book I ever read. Like the first (the Darksword Trilogy) it doesn't hold up very well in a re-read now that I've read so much other good fantasy. Really, when you come down to it, this is a LotR fan fiction.. many of the elements are there, from halfing Shea going on a quest to find a magical artifact to the mysterious wizard Allanon to the confident king adventurer Ballinor...even the runaway gnome Orl Fane... all very LotR. On the plus side, it certainly moves along nicely (though the descriptions are a bit thick at times... one is tempted to skim a bit, especially on a 2nd reading), but there are a few too many lucky happenstance last minute saves for my liking. There are a couple twists, but none that you don't see coming a mile away(perhaps they were less obvious when I was 14 and reading for the 1st time). Yet somehow, this turned into a massive franchise that has spawning dozens of books, a video game, and now a TV series... maybe it's the 'hook' of it being post -apocaltyptic (though other than talking about 'the great war 2000 years ago there are no signs of it here), but it's kinda a mystery to me. Still, it does sorta feel like an old friend, and kinda makes me want to re-read a few more of the things... we'll see how it goes.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 5, 2016 7:40:38 GMT -5
Fury out of Time Lloyd Biggle Jr. c. 1965 My copy is the 1967 copy, with the usual for the time watercolory art on the cover that has almost nothing to do with the story: Funnily enough, I read much of this book in Detroit, where the author is from. It starts off as a biting, satirical commentary on the 60s military in the style of Joseph Heller. The main character, Bowden Karvel, is an astronaut/pilot that retired early due to disability and couldn't handle it, living on his pension outside the base and drinking himself to death. When he takes the lead and figuring out what a mysterious black craft is and where it came from, he ends up travelling through time and space to find the answer and make sure no one else dies from it's mysterious force waves. The book does feel dated, but the characters, not just Bowden, but all of them, are very, very good. The story is interesting and handles time travel well (which is a rarity for me)... it's clear that it makes the characters in the book's heads hurt as much as it does mine. We get some unique aliens, an extremely unique future society, and dinosaurs, all in one package, what more can you ask for? The only criticism I would have is there isn't really a moral or statement to me made.. except perhaps the usual 'communism bad' of the 60s... it seems like a story this well crafted should have one. Maybe that's why it doesn't get any love historically...it's definitely one of the better crafted stories of the 60s sci-fi I've read. I'll definitely be looking for some of his Holmes stuff!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 8, 2016 13:32:28 GMT -5
John the Balladeer by Manly Wade Wellman This reprints all of Wellman's Silver John short stories, the first batch from throughout the 50s and the second batch from the late 70s and through the 80s. John wanders Appalachia with his silver strung guitar seeking songs and knowledge, which inevitably leads him to arcane conflict. John battles these forces with truth, wits and the power of music and silver. It's definitely an interesting departure from the standard fantasy fare and I found myself wondering why none of Wellman's creations, be it Silver John, John Thunstone, or Judge Pursuivant ever made their way into the comics in the 70s fantasy boom. Wellman moved from New York to North Carolina in the early 50s and became something of an expert on Appalachian folklore, music and history (his 1956 non-fiction book Rebel Boast was nominated for the Pulitzer Prize). The Silver John tales ooze authenticity from the place names to the (to this westerner) odd names of people to the mystic menaces and witch folk that John comes across in his travels. If I had a complaint it's that the stories are probably better read over time, rather than in chunks. They don't exactly feel same-y...but they are thematically so similar that they would read better with some distance between. Probably best read one at a time in front of a fire on a cold night or outside in front of the firepit on a summer eve. But all in all well recommended.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2016 13:40:42 GMT -5
Fury out of Time Lloyd Biggle Jr. c. 1965 My copy is the 1967 copy, with the usual for the time watercolory art on the cover that has almost nothing to do with the story: Funnily enough, I read much of this book in Detroit, where the author is from. It starts off as a biting, satirical commentary on the 60s military in the style of Joseph Heller. The main character, Bowden Karvel, is an astronaut/pilot that retired early due to disability and couldn't handle it, living on his pension outside the base and drinking himself to death. When he takes the lead and figuring out what a mysterious black craft is and where it came from, he ends up travelling through time and space to find the answer and make sure no one else dies from it's mysterious force waves. The book does feel dated, but the characters, not just Bowden, but all of them, are very, very good. The story is interesting and handles time travel well (which is a rarity for me)... it's clear that it makes the characters in the book's heads hurt as much as it does mine. We get some unique aliens, an extremely unique future society, and dinosaurs, all in one package, what more can you ask for? The only criticism I would have is there isn't really a moral or statement to me made.. except perhaps the usual 'communism bad' of the 60s... it seems like a story this well crafted should have one. Maybe that's why it doesn't get any love historically...it's definitely one of the better crafted stories of the 60s sci-fi I've read. I'll definitely be looking for some of his Holmes stuff! I remember checking this out from the bookmobile circa 9th grade; not sure if I ever finished it, actually, though I recall liking it well enough. I have read 5 other novels of Biggle's.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jun 8, 2016 14:20:24 GMT -5
At the risk of being way off topic...I would love to watch as Texas tried to go it alone. I mention them specifically because they seem to be the ones who "oh so long to secede (as if it worked out so well for them the first time)". They don't seem to recognize that them leaving the union would mean that they lose a ton of military bases that pump a huge amount of money into their economy, the Johnson Space Center, potentially a ton of corporations that would otherwise then be foreign corporations, etc., etc. Not to mention they would immediately be stuck between two much more powerful countries, both of which have claims on them. They'd be crying out for Uncle Sammy to take them back in short order. Bravo! It always amuses me the the loudest complainers about "big gummint" are inevitably first on line when flood, fire, famine or pestilence strike their hometowns. Whither self-reliance then? Oh, and they inevitably rebuild two feet from the flood-tide line. What did Einstein say about insanity?
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 10, 2016 8:12:13 GMT -5
Morning Star by Pierce Brown
I find that this book is very, very hard to discuss without spoilers, and this is one of those books where spoilers are very, very bad. So, I'll just say, as far as the plot goes, to stick with it until the end, no matter how much you want to throw the book across the room, and keep in mine this is (by and large) meant to be a young adult novel, with all that implies.
I called the first book in the series a dark version of Ender's Game.... this one is almost a happy version of Game of Thrones. While there are big space battles, Pierce Brown is not David Weber, the battles themselves are not very well done. It's all about the characters, the society and how things are changing from the world that was laid out in Red Rising.
Those changes are interesting, and fairly logical, and aren't subject to the same problems as book two, where there were several spots were the characters had to be dumb for the plot to move forward. This time, the move-counter move between the various factions made alot more sense, and felt like it could really be how things go, rather than a forced plot device.
My only quibble is the space battles... while I don't expect David Weber, I do want SOMETHING.. those were pretty disappointing. Granted that that wasn't the point of the story, but still, when you set up not 1, but two giant battles with armadas of ships, they should be something.
Overall, an excellent new series that overcomes it's (IMO) attempt to be too marketable to still be a good story in it's own right. I do fear if the story continues, it could totally break, but as a trilogy, this is a good one and very much worth reading.
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