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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 24, 2017 11:53:28 GMT -5
Pebble in the Sky by Isaac Asimov Asimov's first novel written as a novel (the Foundation books were fix-ups), I read this once a long long time ago. This is a bit of a rough go. It has all of Asimov's faults with very few of his virtues. Joseph Schwartz is transported through time from the then present of the late 40s to the Earth of a galactic future that is ruled by a distant Empire and is a despised back-water. The time travel is accidental and only vaguely defined, which is probably to the good. Schwartz is and is not our protagonist. The reason that Earth is despised isn't really that clear, other than it is largely a radioactive wasteland. Earth views itself as special and periodically rebels against the Empire and the plot of the book, to the extent there is one, deals with an Earth plan to destroy the Empire and assert its proper place in the galaxy. One of the problems is that Asimov throws out a ton of ideas, but never really develops any of them. The universe seems to be ruled by the law of coincidence in a Burroughsian manner. On the plus side there is an actual female character in the novel (odd by Asimov standards) and while she's no great shakes, she's not completely useless and does vaguely help to advance the plot...such as it is. This one is probably only for completists. I'm not sad that I re-read it...but I almost certainly won't again.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 25, 2017 22:12:47 GMT -5
The main thing I remember from Pebble in the Sky is that I was mad that it wasn't a Robot Novel when I read it way back.
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Post by berkley on Jun 26, 2017 0:39:01 GMT -5
Hmmm ... Pebble is one of the Asimovs I haven't read and for that reason one that I had been planning to get to in the coming months as part of my effort to fill in the blanks in my classic SF reading. Maybe I'll put it on the back-burner for now and go on to something else. The other unread early Asimov novels I have on my list are:
The Caves of Steel The Naked Sun The Currents of Space The Stars, Like Dust
Any thoughts on those? I'll read all of them eventually, and Pebble in the Sky too, but I'm willing to limit myself to the essentials for now. I've already read the Foundation trilogy and don't plan to re-read it until I get to some of these earlier ones first.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 26, 2017 11:10:38 GMT -5
Hmmm ... Pebble is one of the Asimovs I haven't read and for that reason one that I had been planning to get to in the coming months as part of my effort to fill in the blanks in my classic SF reading. Maybe I'll put it on the back-burner for now and go on to something else. The other unread early Asimov novels I have on my list are: The Caves of Steel The Naked Sun The Currents of Space The Stars, Like Dust
Any thoughts on those? I'll read all of them eventually, and Pebble in the Sky too, but I'm willing to limit myself to the essentials for now. I've already read the Foundation trilogy and don't plan to re-read it until I get to some of these earlier ones first. I haven't read The Currents of Space or The Stars, Like Dust in just as long as it had been since I'd read Pebble in the Sky. So I honestly can't say. I will be reading them in the near term, likely will get to both before the end of the year. So I'll let you know, but right now I have only the vaguest of memories of them. The Caves of Steel and The Naked Sun are both gold, in my opinion. By far the best synthesis of SF and mystery that I've read. And probably Asimov's best character building (not something he's known for). And, unlike most of his later work, The Robots of Dawn is equally good.
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Post by Jesse on Jun 26, 2017 11:39:07 GMT -5
The Naked Sun was an enjoyable 'whodunit' dressed up as a science fiction story but that's an oversimplification. There's some interesting commentary on how technology effects social interaction that's probably more poignant today than it was then. I enjoyed Pebble In The Sky last time I read it but it's not as good as some of Asimov's better work.
As I recently mentioned I've been rereading the Foundation series and I've gotten as far as the second book Foundation and Empire. Just getting to the second part of the novel that introduces The Mule.
I can't help wonder how this would be adapted as a live action series as I've read rumors for years that Hollywood was interesting in doing so. Especially with high quality stuff like Westworld and Game of Thrones out there. I think in adapting Foundation to live action one might have to drop the naive emphasis on "Atomics" as the go-to for the technology. You can still have all the cool sci-fi stuff like the personal force fields just without that sort of throwback to a simpler time where everything is solved with atomic power. It probably should be there in some capacity though. I guess the modern equivalent would be the microchip but stuff like the technological singularity feels off brand here.
There's also the lack of action in the series or at least most "action" occurs off-panel or between time jumps. I think there's one action sequence in the first book where the prince is hunting some kind of giant birdlike creature but everything else is basically periphery. The series is essentially a political drama that takes place over hundreds of years. Almost an anthropological look at the decay of a great empire while securing the essentials to build another. In that respect you could start at the beginning with the Encyclopedia Galactica looking back to Hari Seldon as prologue.
Has anyone read either of the two sequels or two prequels?
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 26, 2017 12:08:53 GMT -5
The Naked Sun was an enjoyable 'whodunit' dressed up as a science fiction story but that's an oversimplification. There's some interesting commentary on how technology effects social interaction that's probably more poignant today than it was then. I enjoyed Pebble In The Sky last time I read it but it's not as good as some of Asimov's better work. As I recently mentioned I've been rereading the Foundation series and I've gotten as far as the second book Foundation and Empire. Just getting to the second part of the novel that introduces The Mule. I can't help wonder how this would be adapted as a live action series as I've read rumors for years that Hollywood was interesting in doing so. Especially with high quality stuff like Westworld and Game of Thrones out there. I think in adapting Foundation to live action one might have to drop the naive emphasis on "Atomics" as the go-to for the technology. You can still have all the cool sci-fi stuff like the personal force fields just without that sort of throwback to a simpler time where everything is solved with atomic power. It probably should be there in some capacity though. I guess the modern equivalent would be the microchip but stuff like the technological singularity feels off brand here. There's also the lack of action in the series or at least most "action" occurs off-panel or between time jumps. I think there's one action sequence in the first book where the prince is hunting some kind of giant birdlike creature but everything else is basically periphery. The series is essentially a political drama that takes place over hundreds of years. Almost an anthropological look at the decay of a great empire while securing the essentials to build another. In that respect you could start at the beginning with the Encyclopedia Galactica looking back to Hari Seldon as prologue. Has anyone read either of the two sequels or two prequels? Foundation is still apparently in development at HBO by Jonathan Nolan who developed Westworld. The problem is that he's busy with Westworld and that show was delayed as it was. I too have wondered how Foundation would be present on film/TV because it's not exactly action packed. As for the sequels/prequels I read Foundation's Edge when it came out in 1982. It created a huge splash commercially and critically. And I recall liking it, but I haven't read it since that I recall. I haven't read beyond there, because I pretty much gave up on Asimov after The Robots of Dawn (which I liked a lot). It was around that point that he started actively interconnecting Foundation, Empire and Robots and I just wasn't interested in having everything mashed together. So I don't have a good answer for you.
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Post by berkley on Jun 26, 2017 16:42:02 GMT -5
I haven't read any of the Foundation books apart from that first trilogy, but I think I remember Roquefort Raider saying they were pretty good - although I believe that he too didn't care for the idea of tying the Robot books together with the Foundation. Now that I brought up my plan of reading some of the classic SF I've missed out on all these years, anyone have any best-of-decade recommendations? I just finished a few months ago an excellent anthology called Adventures in Time and Space that covered the late 30s to early 40s, but I'd like to switch to novels now. I already have a pretty good idea of what I'll be reading but I'm always interested in hearing the opinions of other SF fans on the subject. My tentative list for the early 50s includes: - those Asimovs I listed above
- AE van Vogt's Voyage of the Space Beagle and the two Weaponshops of Isher books
- a few Clifford D Simak novels (forget the specific titles I had in mind now.)
Apart from general recommendations, I have a couple specific questions: First, I'm wavering a bit on the van Vogts because although I haven't read the novels, I have read some of the short stories they were based on, so I'm considering putting those on the back-burner. Anyone know how much the Isher books, for example, expand on the original story? And second, I don't have anything from the late 40s, as far as I recall, and that seems like a glaring omission. Surely there must have been at least one or two classic SF novels released in the last half of that decade - can anyone think of anything?
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 26, 2017 17:14:16 GMT -5
I haven't read any of the Foundation books apart from that first trilogy, but I think I remember Roquefort Raider saying they were pretty good - although I believe that he too didn't care for the idea of tying the Robot books together with the Foundation. Now that I brought up my plan of reading some of the classic SF I've missed out on all these years, anyone have any best-of-decade recommendations? I just finished a few months ago an excellent anthology called Adventures in Time and Space that covered the late 30s to early 40s, but I'd like to switch to novels now. I already have a pretty good idea of what I'll be reading but I'm always interested in hearing the opinions of other SF fans on the subject. My tentative list for the early 50s includes: - those Asimovs I listed above
- AE van Vogt's Voyage of the Space Beagle and the two Weaponshops of Isher books
- a few Clifford D Simak novels (forget the specific titles I had in mind now.)
Apart from general recommendations, I have a couple specific questions: First, I'm wavering a bit on the van Vogts because although I haven't read the novels, I have read some of the short stories they were based on, so I'm considering putting those on the back-burner. Anyone know how much the Isher books, for example, expand on the original story? And second, I don't have anything from the late 40s, as far as I recall, and that seems like a glaring omission. Surely there must have been at least one or two classic SF novels released in the last half of that decade - can anyone think of anything? The glaring omissions in the 50s for me would be no Heinlein or Clarke...but maybe you've read what you want there. The Demolished Man and The Stars My Destination by Alfred Bester are absolute must-reads for the 50s. Probably also is More Than Human by Theodore Sturgeon (it helps that you can argue it influenced the X-Men). I don't have an answer on the van Vogts because my reading of any van Vogt is at least 25 years in the past. The late 40s was still very much a time of short stories in SF, so important novels are few and far between. Heinlein's early juveniles (though the later ones are better). Best bet is probably What Mad Universe? by Fredric Brown. Brown is always eminently readable. And this one has the advantage of being one of the earlier uses of parallel universes. So you get a bit of the multiple earth's comic book feel, long before that was a thing. Maybe Needle by Hal Clement. If you've ever read Clement you know it will be long on HARD science and short on pretty much everything else. It's not on par with Mission of Gravity, but it's okay. Earth Abides by George R. Stewart, which I recently re-read, is a good early post-apocalyptic novel from '49.
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Post by berkley on Jun 26, 2017 17:49:34 GMT -5
Looking up Heinlein, I see that The Puppet Masters came out in 1951 so I do have that one listed. For some reason I'd been thinking it was from the later 50s. From the 2nd half of the 50s, I'll probably try Double Star, Methuselah's Children, and maybe Starship Troopers, since I've never read any of those.
Arthur C. Clarke, I think I'll read The City and the Stars from 1956, and maybe one or two of his earlier short story collections.
I've already read Bester's two big SF novels and Brown's What Mad Universe?, but not Sturgeon's More than Human, Clement's Needle, or Stewart's Earth Abides, so those will all be going on the list. Thanks for the suggestions, exactly the kind of think I was looking for.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 26, 2017 19:19:32 GMT -5
Looking up Heinlein, I see that The Puppet Masters came out in 1951 so I do have that one listed. For some reason I'd been thinking it was from the later 50s. From the 2nd half of the 50s, I'll probably try Double Star, Methuselah's Children, and maybe Starship Troopers, since I've never read any of those. Arthur C. Clarke, I think I'll read The City and the Stars from 1956, and maybe one or two of his earlier short story collections. I've already read Bester's two big SF novels and Brown's What Mad Universe?, but not Sturgeon's More than Human, Clement's Needle, or Stewart's Earth Abides, so those will all be going on the list. Thanks for the suggestions, exactly the kind of think I was looking for. If you're thinking of reading Methuselah's Children, you might want to consider finding a copy of The Past Through Tomorrow. It has most of Heinlein's "Future History" shorter works in one collection. Most of them are from the 40s, but it includes Methuselah and the novelette The Menace From Earth from the 50s. www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?45125
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Post by berkley on Jun 26, 2017 20:03:21 GMT -5
Looking up Heinlein, I see that The Puppet Masters came out in 1951 so I do have that one listed. For some reason I'd been thinking it was from the later 50s. From the 2nd half of the 50s, I'll probably try Double Star, Methuselah's Children, and maybe Starship Troopers, since I've never read any of those. Arthur C. Clarke, I think I'll read The City and the Stars from 1956, and maybe one or two of his earlier short story collections. I've already read Bester's two big SF novels and Brown's What Mad Universe?, but not Sturgeon's More than Human, Clement's Needle, or Stewart's Earth Abides, so those will all be going on the list. Thanks for the suggestions, exactly the kind of think I was looking for. If you're thinking of reading Methuselah's Children, you might want to consider finding a copy of The Past Through Tomorrow. It has most of Heinlein's "Future History" shorter works in one collection. Most of them are from the 40s, but it includes Methuselah and the novelette The Menace From Earth from the 50s. www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?45125I do have a copy of The Past Through Tomorrow and I'm debating whether to read the whole thing all at once (not starting right this minute, but sometime in the next year or so) or to go through it a bit at a time. Does it really hold together as a unified collection, or is it more a set of loosely connected individual stories and novelettes, etc?
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 26, 2017 20:28:14 GMT -5
If you're thinking of reading Methuselah's Children, you might want to consider finding a copy of The Past Through Tomorrow. It has most of Heinlein's "Future History" shorter works in one collection. Most of them are from the 40s, but it includes Methuselah and the novelette The Menace From Earth from the 50s. www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?45125I do have a copy of The Past Through Tomorrow and I'm debating whether to read the whole thing all at once (not starting right this minute, but sometime in the next year or so) or to go through it a bit at a time. Does it really hold together as a unified collection, or is it more a set of loosely connected individual stories and novelettes, etc? For the most part they're loosely connected. They were written over a period of thirty years, out of order and Heinlein only had a general outline of his future history. I've read it all at once and recall it reading quite well...but I'm a big Heinlein fan and that was some time ago. I don't think it would hurt anything at all to read it interspersed with other books.
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Post by berkley on Jun 26, 2017 23:44:46 GMT -5
I do have a copy of The Past Through Tomorrow and I'm debating whether to read the whole thing all at once (not starting right this minute, but sometime in the next year or so) or to go through it a bit at a time. Does it really hold together as a unified collection, or is it more a set of loosely connected individual stories and novelettes, etc? For the most part they're loosely connected. They were written over a period of thirty years, out of order and Heinlein only had a general outline of his future history. I've read it all at once and recall it reading quite well...but I'm a big Heinlein fan and that was some time ago. I don't think it would hurt anything at all to read it interspersed with other books. Think that's the route I'll go. Now I think about it, that'll have the added benefit of giving me some SF from the 40s to read while I'm still in that decade in some of my other reading - I'm also browsing through some of the hard-boiled stuff I never tried yet, so I should be getting to the first of Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer books soon.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 27, 2017 10:27:36 GMT -5
Adventures of Cash Laramie and Gideon Miles by Edward Grainger (David Cranmer). The first collection of short stories about Deputy U.S. Marshall's Cash Laramie and Gideon Miles by David Cranmer writing as Edward Grainger. Cranmer is the editor at Beat to a Pulp publishing and is one of the better neo-pulp/neo-noir writers around. He also does a pretty spiffy western. The stories here originally appeared in various e-zines, except two that are original to this publication. Cash Laramie, known as The Outlaw Marshall, plays by his own rules. Gideon Miles, a black Marshall, has to deal with prejudice in the Old West. The stories tend to be a hybrid of spaghetti and traditional western. They're short and to the point, with just enough characterization to keep you coming back for more. While they're set in Wyoming, other than the odd name-drop it's a fairly generic western setting. One story did take place in Twin Falls, which I found interesting as the only Twin Falls I can find is the one in Idaho (about 30 miles from me) which wasn't incorporated until 1905. But that's fine. If you're looking for some decent western short stories these are a good bet. They aren't a patch on Elmore Leonard. But they are well worth the read and I'll come back to Cash and Gideon again in the near future.
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Post by Jesse on Jun 27, 2017 11:10:20 GMT -5
Now that I brought up my plan of reading some of the classic SF I've missed out on all these years, anyone have any best-of-decade recommendations? These are two of my all time favorites. Babel-17by Samuel R. Delany Delany makes some interesting commentary on language and how it effects the way people think and act while telling an epic outer space adventure featuring a colorful full cast of characters, espionage and plenty of action. The Earth Alliance is fighting an interstellar war with the Invaders who have developed a communications weapon called Babel-17 that is responsible for multiple deadly attacks against the Alliance. Rydra Wong a starship captain, famous poet and telepath is recruited to decipher what they thought was a code but she discovers is actually a language. When her ship is sabotaged one of her crew is suspected of being an Invader spy. After witnessing an assassination her ship is again sabotaged. Her crew is saved by a privateer whose lieutenant, a man known as The Butcher may be the key to understanding Babel-17. and The Left Hand of Darknessby Ursula K. Le Guin To say this book was progressive or ahead of its time does it little justice. Le Guin gives us a fascinating look at an alien culture that examines what makes us human. An envoy from an interplanetary collective called the Ekumen is sent to a frozen planet populated by a race of ambisexual humans. Through his eyes we get to know this alien race, learning about their customs, their psychology and their unique physiology. While mixed up in the politics of two rival countries his life is threatened and he must journey over the deadly frozen tundra with the only person on this world he has come to trust.
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