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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 8:50:22 GMT -5
Now Wait for Last Year is a novel that, I think, most PKD fans probably place in the second (or maybe 1.5th?) tier of his work, but I rank it in his top 10. (The same goes for We Can Build You & The Simulacra, & probably Clans of the Alphane Moon, maybe The Game-Players of Titan & possibly The World Jones Made as well. Which I guess means my top 10 actually numbers 15 at the very least, but that's sort of quintessentially PKDian, really.) And speaking of PKDian, Last Year vexed me the first time I read it by disappearing for a few days when I was maybe one-third of the way into it, back in the summer of '77. I hunted all over the house for it before giving up & moving on to the (excellent, of course) Ubik instead ... after which, of course, it resurfaced. I haven't read Now Wait for Last Year yet myself but it's one of 8 or 10 PKD books I just brought back with me from my recent trip back home to the parents. Excellent point. I'm now deeply chagrined that in 37 years it's never occurred to me. Well done, sir. |
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Post by gothos on Sept 24, 2014 13:47:41 GMT -5
Anyone a fan of Joseph Campbell? Or even just conversant with some of his prominent works? is an easy-to-read primer on Campbell and his concepts of the mono-myth and the hero's journey. He tells stories to illustrate his points, befitting the conversational style of the book as well as his field, which is essentially the study of stories. I do find that sometimes his interpretations of various myths and legends are less than helpful; what he sees as obvious and general sometimes strike me as subjective. The only other book of Campbell's that I found moderately readable and interesting was the section of his Masks of God series that dealt with the Odyssey. Oh and parts of The Hero with a Thousand Faces, too. At his worst, Campbell tends to sound more like a New Age "Improve Your Life" type than a scholar. At his best, he gives great insights into the patterns and archetypes of literature. Yeah, I can understand that. Sometimes he'll warn readers against being too reductive in reading the meanings of myth, and then he'll turn around and make a reductive pronouncement himself. But to some extent I see that as a universal problem in the interpretation of any sort of stories, literary or mythic. As soon as you try to boil down the feeling of significance that you get from a work you like, that thematic statement seems overly restrictive, bleeding out some if not all of the qualities you liked about the story. Campbell's somewhat disorganized thought has some of the same strengths as Jung's more deliberate archetypal philosophy: it does suggest that there are ways that one can think about how we tell stories, and why, without focusing too much on the ephemera of conscious themes. Some of Campbell's concepts apply very well to storytelling that depends more on symbolic allusion rather than thematic organization-- not least comic book superheroes... |
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Post by Jasoomian on Sept 24, 2014 16:45:34 GMT -5
I decided to test out the local library's service where one may check out an e-book for one's Kindle Fire (or other e-readers I guess). I grabbed this off the new arrivals list:  It's delightful nonsense. An autobiogrpahy stretching from Burgundy's childhood in an Iowa coal-minging town attending Our Holy Lady of Chewbacca high school through his rise in San Diego to his present-day feud with a neighbor over a leafblower. I'm not sure when Amazon will delete it from my device, but I've e-flipped through most of it already. The photo-inserts would probably be lost on a lo-fi reader, so watch out for that. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Sept 24, 2014 17:30:19 GMT -5
Ok, I'm officially a Joe Lansdale fan. Two-Bear Mambo was very close to the best book I've ever read where the good guys lose (right up there with the Red Wedding in Game of Thrones and Empire Strikes Back). I don't think I'd want to read them in large doses, as I suspect he charm of his over the top humor would lose something if you get used to it, but Hap and Leonard are really amazingly well done characters, I'll definitely visit them again before too long. I could really believe this author if he delivered a 'the characters write themselves' sort of line.. .I suspect they probably do. For a different reason I have yet to expand past Hap and Leonard. You could say that F. Paul Wilson ruined it for me. The one time I did stray from The Adversary Cycle/Repairman Jack series, the novel was terrible, even if it still contained a few of his warped but completely believable characters. I think closer to the truth: readers of crime fiction are just more comfortable within a series (unless it’s someone who doesn’t specialize in series, like Dick Francis or Ken Follett). My next Lansdale, however, will probably be Cold in July because I want to read it before I see the movie. My favorites are Mucho Mojo and Rumble Tumble. My least favorite is Captains Outrageous, still interesting but takes a while to get started. I've just read the 2 Hap and Leonard books I mentioned in this thread so far, but I'll certainly be reading more.. just giving it some space.. I feel like I could definitely get burned out on the style if I read them all at once. Heh, yeah, I felt that way back in the day with Tom Clancy... the non-Jack Ryan books just felt like they 'didn't count'. I guess that's the down side of creating a franchise. I haven't read enough Dick Francis to be that familiar with his style (3 or 4, no idea what sort of order), but what you say seems likely. It still was a fun book, just a bit of a dodgy ending. I've never read any of the ones you mentioned, it always amazes me how much good stuff is out there  |
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Post by mrc1214 on Sept 25, 2014 12:05:33 GMT -5
Back at the old place we had a few discussions about all the essential sci if novels and writers. I know some stuff got brought over but definitely not all of it. I discovered many many great novels this way but forgot about the rest of them. I'm making a list this time for sure. Here's some stuff I bought and have read because of the old thread.
Way Station-Simak
High Crusade-Anderson
Dangerous Visions- ed. Ellison
Ubik-PKD-(my favorite )
Time and Again-Silverberg
Door Into Summer,Puppet masters, Revolt in 2100-Heinlein
Canticle for Leibowitz-Miller
Slan-Van Vogt
Behold the Man-Moorcock
Bug Jack Barron-Spinrad
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 12:48:53 GMT -5
I'm busy at work (dammit!) but will contribute some suggestions as soon as I can grab some time, Chris. In the meantime, others here are infinitely more knowledgeable than I am about sf after, roughly, the mid-'70s, & I suspect (much as it chragins me to admit it) that Slam, for one, is far better-read in the field in general from the pulp field into the '70s than I am.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Sept 25, 2014 13:39:25 GMT -5
I'll throw a few in for now
Assimov,Isaac-Foudation Trilogy,Naked Sun
Bester,Alfred-Demolished Man,Stars My Destination
Bradbury,Ray-Fahrenheit 451,Martian Chronicles
Clarke,Arthur C-Childhood's End,Rendezvous With Rama
Farmer,Phil-Riverworld & Other Stories
Finney,Jack-Time and Again
Gibson,William-Neuromancer
Heinlein,Robert-Past Through Tomorrow,Stranger In A Strange Land,Starship Troopers
more later
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Sept 25, 2014 13:47:18 GMT -5
Back at the old place we had a few discussions about all the essential sci if novels and writers. I know some stuff got brought over but definitely not all of it. I discovered many many great novels this way but forgot about the rest of them. I'm making a list this time for sure. Here's some stuff I bought and have read because of the old thread. Way Station-Simak High Crusade-Anderson Dangerous Visions- ed. Ellison Ubik-PKD-(my favorite ) Time and Again-Silverberg Door Into Summer,Puppet masters, Revolt in 2100-Heinlein Canticle for Leibowitz-Miller Slan-Van Vogt Behold the Man-Moorcock Bug Jack Barron-Spinrad I have to assume that Behold the Man came from me. I'm a big fan of Cliff Simak. He is horrendously underappreciated today. I would definitely recommend All Flesh is Grass and City. High Crusade is an interesting mish-mash of SF and Fantasy. If you're in to fantasy, Anderson is one of the masters of the "one-off" fantasy novel. The Broken Sword and Three Hearts and Three Lions are both great single fantasy books. TH&TL was also very influential on Gary Gygax so any D&D fan should give it a read. If you haven't read any Fredric Brown you owe it to yourself to read Martians, Go Home and What Mad Universe. The latter is a very influential multiple universe novel. Robert Scheckley is a must read. He's best at short stories. But Immortality, Inc. is a very good novel. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Sept 25, 2014 13:49:41 GMT -5
As for me...finished a re-read of Warlord of Mars by Burroughs.
The original three Barsoomian novels are great. Though John Carter is thick as a brick sometimes. And has any literary character been kidnapped more often in such a short period of time as Dejah Thoris?
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Post by mrc1214 on Sept 25, 2014 14:22:32 GMT -5
I'll throw a few in for now Assimov,Isaac-Foudation Trilogy,Naked Sun Bester,Alfred-Demolished Man,Stars My Destination Bradbury,Ray-Fahrenheit 451,Martian Chronicles Clarke,Arthur C-Childhood's End,Rendezvous With Rama Farmer,Phil-Riverworld & Other Stories Finney,Jack-Time and Again Gibson,William-Neuromancer Heinlein,Robert-Past Through Tomorrow,Stranger In A Strange Land,Starship Troopers more later Oh man I always confuse Finney and Silverberg idk why. Silverberg wrote Dying Inside which I still have to read. |
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Post by mrc1214 on Sept 25, 2014 14:25:26 GMT -5
Back at the old place we had a few discussions about all the essential sci if novels and writers. I know some stuff got brought over but definitely not all of it. I discovered many many great novels this way but forgot about the rest of them. I'm making a list this time for sure. Here's some stuff I bought and have read because of the old thread. Way Station-Simak High Crusade-Anderson Dangerous Visions- ed. Ellison Ubik-PKD-(my favorite ) Time and Again-Silverberg Door Into Summer,Puppet masters, Revolt in 2100-Heinlein Canticle for Leibowitz-Miller Slan-Van Vogt Behold the Man-Moorcock Bug Jack Barron-Spinrad I have to assume that Behold the Man came from me. I'm a big fan of Cliff Simak. He is horrendously underappreciated today. I would definitely recommend All Flesh is Grass and City. High Crusade is an interesting mish-mash of SF and Fantasy. If you're in to fantasy, Anderson is one of the masters of the "one-off" fantasy novel. The Broken Sword and Three Hearts and Three Lions are both great single fantasy books. TH&TL was also very influential on Gary Gygax so any D&D fan should give it a read. If you haven't read any Fredric Brown you owe it to yourself to read Martians, Go Home and What Mad Universe. The latter is a very influential multiple universe novel. Robert Scheckley is a must read. He's best at short stories. But Immortality, Inc. is a very good novel. Yup you definitely recommended Behold the a Man, great great novel. I'm not into fantasy but I may check those out . Scheckley was on my want list already but ill definitely add that book as I just had him as an author. I'll add Fredric Brown to my list as well. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Sept 25, 2014 14:44:16 GMT -5
I'm sure I was responsible for Bug Jack Baron. I read that back in the 70s. Hope you liked it and that it wasn't too dated
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Post by berkley on Sept 25, 2014 17:38:03 GMT -5
It's hard to limit oneself to just a few "essential" books, but here are some I'd suggest to start with:
Frank Herbert -
Dune
Roger Zelazny -
Creatures of Light and Darkness
Lord of Light
Nine Princes in Amber
Michael Moorcock -
Jerry Cornelius (The Final Programme, The English Assassin, A Cure for Cancer, The Condition of Muzak)
Dancers at the End of Time series
Larry Niven -
Ringworld
Niven & Pournelle -
The Mote in God's Eye
ERB -
A Princess of Mars
Gods of Mars
Warlord of Mars
A Fighting Man of Mars
Tarzan
The Return of Tarzan
Pirates of Venus
Lost on Venus
The Land that Time Forgot trilogy
Philip K. Dick -
Time Out of Joint
Martian Time-slip
Ubik
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch
VALIS
Iain M. Banks -
Consider Phlebas
Player of Games
Use of Weapons
Against a Dark Background
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 17:49:26 GMT -5
I Philip K. Dick - Time Out of Joint Martian Time-slip Ubik The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch VALIS No Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? Or Man in the High Castle? I'm going to have to go lie down ... (Actually, I'm going to have to leave the office.) Off the top of my head, though, my top 15 or so PKDs, more or less in order Time Out of Joint Do Androids Dream Three Stigmata The Man in the High Castle The Simulacra Now Wait for Last Year Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said We Can Build You Martian Time-Slip Dr. Bloodmoney A Scanner Darkly The Game-Players of Titan Clans of the Alphane Moon The Cosmic Puppets Galactic Pot-Healer Counter-Clock World The World Jones Made I'm not nearly the fan of the Valis stuff that many (probably most) of his devotees are, though it's certainly interesting, especially if one knows the background about his "Pink Light Experience," etc. Radio Free Albemuth, which is sort of the prequel to all that, is pretty enjoyable, though. |
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Post by berkley on Sept 25, 2014 18:00:41 GMT -5
I Philip K. Dick - Time Out of Joint Martian Time-slip Ubik The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch VALIS No Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? Or Man in the High Castle? I'm going to have to go lie down ... (Actually, I'm going to have to leave the office.) Off the top of my head, though, my top 15 or so PKDs, more or less in order Time Out of Joint Do Androids Dream Three Stigmata The Man in the High Castle The Simulacra Now Wait for Last Year Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said We Can Build You Martian Time-Slip Dr. Bloodmoney A Scanner Darkly The Game-Players of Titan Clans of the Alphane Moon The Cosmic Puppets Galactic Pot-Healer Counter-Clock World The World Jones Made I'm not nearly the fan of the Valis stuff that many (probably most) of his devotees are, though it's certainly interesting, especially if one knows the background about his "Pink Light Experience," etc. Radio Free Albemuth, which is sort of the prequel to all that, is pretty enjoyable, though. Well, I was trying to keep it to a small number, like other people had been doing for other writers. yeah, both those would be in my top 10 or 15. I'd probably add: Eye in the Sky A Maze of Death Flow My Tears A Scanner Darkly The Transmigration of Timothy Archer There's a bunch I still haven't read, so I have lots to look forward to. |
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