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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 26, 2020 20:24:02 GMT -5
I found Money Shot a solid read, but yeah, nothing that knocked me out of my seat. However, I would suggest avoiding its sequel, Choke Hold - it's so over-the-top bleak. I haven't read any Christa Faust but I remember a few years ago seeing Choke Hold advertised or reviewed somewhere online and feeling some interest due to the MMA angle. How was that aspect handled?
This first one had nothing to do with MMA... that's just that 2nd one.
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Post by berkley on Mar 26, 2020 20:48:52 GMT -5
I haven't read any Christa Faust but I remember a few years ago seeing Choke Hold advertised or reviewed somewhere online and feeling some interest due to the MMA angle. How was that aspect handled?
This first one had nothing to do with MMA... that's just that 2nd one. That reminds me, here's a general question for the books thread: what are the best sports book you've read, fiction and/or non-fiction?
I'll have to think about it myself, now that I've brought it up. As far as fiction goes, I can't actually recall that many. One that comes to mind is This Sporting Life, by David Storey. It's about a rugby league player in northern England (I think it was league, not union - back then, league was the professional code and union the amateur; now of course they're both professional). I think it's both a first-rate novel in itself and also a first-rate sports book, as in giving the reader a glimpse of the pro-athlete's world and mind-set.
Non-fiction, one favourite I can think of is "In This Corner ...!", by Peter Heller, a kind of oral history of boxing with Heller providing intros to each of the fighters who then tell their stories in their own words. I haven't read a lot of oral histories but the few I've come across have all been really good, so I think it's a format that I feel in tune with. In this book, it's 42 world champions talking about their lives inside and outside the ring. As often happens, some of the most absorbing passages are from boxers who weren't particular favourites of mine or whom I hadn't even heard of as a casual fan. Floyd Patterson, for example, whome I'd never really thought abut much before, wrote one of the most moving pieces - I can still feel myself getting a bit choked up just remembering it now, though I haven't re-read the book since the 90s, when this expanded edition came out.
While typing all that I remembered a few others but I'll save them for later.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 26, 2020 22:14:17 GMT -5
This first one had nothing to do with MMA... that's just that 2nd one. That reminds me, here's a general question for the books thread: what are the best sports book you've read, fiction and/or non-fiction?
I'll have to think about it myself, now that I've brought it up. As far as fiction goes, I can't actually recall that many. One that comes to mind is This Sporting Life, by David Storey. It's about a rugby league player in northern England (I think it was league, not union - back then, league was the professional code and union the amateur; now of course they're both professional). I think it's both a first-rate novel in itself and also a first-rate sports book, as in giving the reader a glimpse of the pro-athlete's world and mind-set.
Non-fiction, one favourite I can think of is "In This Corner ...!", by Peter Heller, a kind of oral history of boxing with Heller providing intros to each of the fighters who then tell their stories in their own words. I haven't read a lot of oral histories but the few I've come across have all been really good, so I think it's a format that I feel in tune with. In this book, it's 42 world champions talking about their lives inside and outside the ring. As often happens, some of the most absorbing passages are from boxers who weren't particular favourites of mine or whom I hadn't even heard of as a casual fan. Floyd Patterson, for example, whome I'd never really thought abut much before, wrote one of the most moving pieces - I can still feel myself getting a bit choked up just remembering it now, though I haven't re-read the book since the 90s, when this expanded edition came out.
While typing all that I remembered a few others but I'll save them for later.
I was surprisingly happy with “The Boys in the Boat” by Daniel James Brown about the 1936 U.S. Olympic rowing team. I had no idea that rowing was as popular as it was in the early part of the century. “The Sweet Science” by A.J. Liebling is an absolute must read for any boxing fan. Liebling was one of the best sports writers ever. Fiction? Hmmmmm. “The Hustler” by Walter Tevis is still probably the best book ever about pool. I have a super soft spot for Robert Ruark’s hunting novels. They were favorites of my Dad and I grew up with them.
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Post by berkley on Mar 26, 2020 23:12:58 GMT -5
That reminds me, here's a general question for the books thread: what are the best sports book you've read, fiction and/or non-fiction?
I'll have to think about it myself, now that I've brought it up. As far as fiction goes, I can't actually recall that many. One that comes to mind is This Sporting Life, by David Storey. It's about a rugby league player in northern England (I think it was league, not union - back then, league was the professional code and union the amateur; now of course they're both professional). I think it's both a first-rate novel in itself and also a first-rate sports book, as in giving the reader a glimpse of the pro-athlete's world and mind-set.
Non-fiction, one favourite I can think of is "In This Corner ...!", by Peter Heller, a kind of oral history of boxing with Heller providing intros to each of the fighters who then tell their stories in their own words. I haven't read a lot of oral histories but the few I've come across have all been really good, so I think it's a format that I feel in tune with. In this book, it's 42 world champions talking about their lives inside and outside the ring. As often happens, some of the most absorbing passages are from boxers who weren't particular favourites of mine or whom I hadn't even heard of as a casual fan. Floyd Patterson, for example, whome I'd never really thought abut much before, wrote one of the most moving pieces - I can still feel myself getting a bit choked up just remembering it now, though I haven't re-read the book since the 90s, when this expanded edition came out.
While typing all that I remembered a few others but I'll save them for later.
I was surprisingly happy with “The Boys in the Boat” by Daniel James Brown about the 1936 U.S. Olympic rowing team. I had no idea that rowing was as popular as it was in the early part of the century. “The Sweet Science” by A.J. Liebling is an absolute must read for any boxing fan. Liebling was one of the best sports writers ever. Fiction? Hmmmmm. “The Hustler” by Walter Tevis is still probably the best book ever about pool. I have a super soft spot for Robert Ruark’s hunting novels. They were favorites of my Dad and I grew up with them. Haven't read the Tevis book but I just saw the movie version starring Paul Newman for the first time last year at a local cinema and was very impressed (illogically, I have read Tevis's Man Who Fell to Earth but haven't seen the film, in spite of being a huge Bowie fan).
The Sweet Science is definitely on my list. Never seem to see a copy on the shelves anywhere but I'll just have to break down and order it online one of these days.
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 27, 2020 12:53:21 GMT -5
That reminds me, here's a general question for the books thread: what are the best sports book you've read, fiction and/or non-fiction?
Baseball Fiction: The Natural by Bernard Malamud... Much better than the film because it digs far deeper. Shoeless Joe by W.P. Kinsella... So much more complex in a good way than the film version, Field of Dreams, which I've grown almost to dislike. The Celebrant by Eric Rolfe Greenburg... Christy Matthewson and a Jewish immigrant in the jewelry business. A diamond in the rough. Pun intended. Baseball Non-Fiction: Literally anything by Roger Angell I'm partial to The Summer Game because it was the first I read back in the late 60s, but all of his collections, including his non-sports collection, This Old Man, are excellent. Ball Four by Jim Bouton The original and still the best The Big Bam and Ted Williams: The Biography of an American Hero by Leigh Montville... Jam-packed with great detail as opposed to minutiae. Babe by Robert Creamer... Elegantly written about the crudest, and maybe only, god of the 20th century Koufax by Jane Leavy... Endlessly fascinating biography of a man who never wanted one written Veeck as in Wreck by Bill Veeck (with Ed Linn)... Baseball could use Veeck right now. Sui generis. Any of the Fireside Books of Baseball... Delightful, particularly in the off-season (hence the title), when you miss the game so. The Glory of Their Times Lawrence Ritter... Interviews with the stars of the early years. Charming, eye-opening, invaluable. Eight Men Out Eliot Asinof... Nothing better on the subject has ever been written. Stranger to the Game by Bob Gibson with Lonnie Wheeler... No tougher man ever played baseball than Bob Gibson. Lords of the Realm by John Helyar... Baseball from the owners' box. And yes, they're just as cold-blooded and nasty as you'd think. No James Earl Jones narration here. Clemente: The Passion and Grace of Baseball's Last Hero by Dave Maraniss... Wonderful biography of one the true greats. Satchell by Larry Tye... Glorious and sad. A Well-Paid Slave: Curt Flood's Fight for Free Agency in Professional Sports by Brad Snyder... Curt Flood died for baseball's sins. Many more, of course, but can't forget The Great American Baseball Card Flipping, Trading and Bubble Gum Book Paperback by Brendan C. Boyd and Fred C. Harris... Funny, funny, funny, even if you never collected baseball cards. An affectionate but unsentimental celebration of all the goofy trappings of baseball. Football Fiction:
Semi-Tough by Dan Jenkins... Funny as hell. Huck Finnin the NFL, courtesy one of the all-time great sportswriters. Football Non-Fiction: Championship by Jerry Izenberg... Brief stories of all the NFL championship games. Read and reread this when I was a kid. Izenberg's a great stylist who wrote at th end of the "Red Ruffansore" school of sportswriting and the new journalism of the 60s. Written for kids, but enjoyed by adults. Basketball Non-Fiction:The City Game by Pete Axthelm... Parallels the Knicks' 69-70 championship season with the stories of the Rucker League, especially the stories of playground legends Connie Hawkins and Earl Manigault. Superb. Boxing:A Flame of Pure Fire: Jack Dempsey and the Roaring '20s by Roger Kahn. Like Doctorow's Ragtime with Dempsey's life replacing the fictional aspects. Loved the info on those boxing books! Thanks!
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Post by berkley on Mar 27, 2020 17:32:48 GMT -5
Thanks Hal, that's an impressive list.
I'm not the biggest football or baseball fan but a good book is a good book and there are a few of those on your list I'm sure I'll read one of these days - the Jim Bouton book, for example and Semi-Tough. And The Glory of Their Times sounds like one of those oral histories I like.
I'm even less of a basketball fan but I did read a biography of Connie Hawkins one time, back in the 80s - a friend of mine who was a fan (and a very good player himself, locally, in our hometown) loaned it to me. I found it a pretty good read, considering my low level of interest in the game. Hawkins's background, the environment where he grew up and everything was what made the book for me.
I have a copy of the Dempsey book but have been saving it for when I start reading a lot of stuff from the 1920s in general.
Have you (or anyone else who sees this) read Roger Kahn's The Boys of Summer? That's one baseball book I've heard praised highly, I think on a sports radio station I sometimes listen to. They also talked about Halberstam's Best American Sports Writing of the Century, a big compilation of American sports writing in general they recommended highly.
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 27, 2020 19:18:04 GMT -5
berkley , but that my list was way too long, I would have included Boys of Summer, which was also a combination of oral history and straight history. Well worth reading. I also left off a couple of great Jackie Robinson bios by Jules Tygiel and Jonathan Eig.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 27, 2020 23:38:52 GMT -5
Hal's list is great.... I'll heartily 2nd Ball Four , Veeck as in Wreck and Glory of their Times ... The Veeck book for sure is in this thread somewhere (maybe the other two as well). I'd add The recent Ty Cobb bio 'A Terrible Beauty' by Charles Leerhsen and the one about the Charles Finley A's team by Jason Turnbow. I'm daughters in the attic with the books atm, but there's also a really great one about Barnstorming pre-integration that I really enjoyed.
I don't really like sports fiction (unless professional wrestling counts), but I did read Kinsella's 'Iowa Baseball Confederacy', which was weird but fun. Brittle Innings is also quite good, but not exactly a baseball book.
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Post by berkley on Mar 28, 2020 0:02:16 GMT -5
I read a ton of hockey books when I was a kid, too many to remember them all but I think almost all of them were kind of fluff bios or ghost-written auto-bios, but still great fun for a kid. Strength Down Centre, a Jean Beliveau bio by novelist Hugh Hood was a cut above most of them. I also remember really loving Andy O'Brien's Fire-Wagon Hockey, a history of the Montreal Canadiens published in 1967, that filled me with a reverence for the stars of the earlier eras that has remained with me to this day. I'm sure I'll think of a few other stand-outs later on.
The last really good hockey book I read was Gross Misconduct, by Martin O'Malley, about the troubled life of Brian "Spinner" Spencer, who played in the 70s but became the subject of intense media attention in Canada in the 1990s when he was accused (and later acquitted) of murder. Really fascinating story (I think the title is crap, though), and one that goes beyond just the sports aspect.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 3:31:34 GMT -5
Just finished another of the Ace Conan volumes...Conan the Buccaneer... from my Goodreads review.. -M
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 28, 2020 9:11:41 GMT -5
Hal's list is great.... I'll heartily 2nd Ball Four , Veeck as in Wreck and Glory of their Times ... The Veeck book for sure is in this thread somewhere (maybe the other two as well). I'd add The recent Ty Cobb bio 'A Terrible Beauty' by Charles Leerhsen and the one about the Charles Finley A's team by Jason Turnbow. I'm daughters in the attic with the books atm, but there's also a really great one about Barnstorming pre-integration that I really enjoyed.
I don't really like sports fiction (unless professional wrestling counts), but I did read Kinsella's 'Iowa Baseball Confederacy', which was weird but fun. Brittle Innings is also quite good, but not exactly a baseball book. Was that maybe Bingo Long and His Traveling All-Stars? I know there was a movie of it.
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 28, 2020 9:14:33 GMT -5
Just finished another of the Ace Conan volumes...Conan the Buccaneer... from my Goodreads review.. -M Felt the same way about Conan of the Isles, which was the finale of the series.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 28, 2020 9:51:22 GMT -5
Hal's list is great.... I'll heartily 2nd Ball Four , Veeck as in Wreck and Glory of their Times ... The Veeck book for sure is in this thread somewhere (maybe the other two as well). I'd add The recent Ty Cobb bio 'A Terrible Beauty' by Charles Leerhsen and the one about the Charles Finley A's team by Jason Turnbow. I'm daughters in the attic with the books atm, but there's also a really great one about Barnstorming pre-integration that I really enjoyed.
I don't really like sports fiction (unless professional wrestling counts), but I did read Kinsella's 'Iowa Baseball Confederacy', which was weird but fun. Brittle Innings is also quite good, but not exactly a baseball book. Was that maybe Bingo Long and His Traveling All-Stars? I know there was a movie of it. Nope.. I found it though: Satch, Dizzy, and Rapid Robert: The Wild Saga of Interracial Baseball Before Jackie Robinson by Timothy Gay
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Post by berkley on Mar 31, 2020 1:38:24 GMT -5
Trying to catch up on posting a few of the things I've read recently:
Down With Skool! - Geoffrey Willan (writer) and Ronald Searle (illustrator)
I'd seen bits of this before, so I pretty much knew what to expect going in, but reading the whole thing start to finish, it was even funnier than I'd been expecting. I laughed out loud almost every page, which is pretty unusal for me even with my favourite comical writing. I don't think there's necessarily anything really ground-breaking or original about it, but it is just so masterfully done, the jokes feel so spot-on - if someone who never experienced boarding-school at first hand has a right to say that. Anyway, can't recommend it highly enough, not that it needs any testimonials from me - it's so well-known that some of its lines have become catch-phrases, as any fule kno.
BTW, when I say "start to finish", I mean only this first book of Willan's and Searle's Molesworth series. There were four of them so I have lots to look forward to over the next few months. Each is about 100 pp long and the proportion of text to illustrations isn't far off what you'd see in some of the more word-heavy MAD pieces, so although it doesn't quite qualify as a comic book, it's almost heading in that direction.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 31, 2020 10:19:31 GMT -5
Lost in a Good Book by Jasper FfordeFollowing the events of The Eyre Affair, SpecOps Agent Thursday Next finds herself wanted by almost everyone. SpecOps wants her for her celebrity, though they don't want her to actually use it for anything useful. Goliath Corp. wants her to retrieve Jack Schitt from "The Raven" and are willing to get really personal to attain that goal. And Jurisfiction (a group that polices the internal working of literature) want her as an agent, a job she's thirty years overdue for. As a Prose Resource Operative inside books she is apprenticed to the redoubtable Miss Havisham from Great Expectations. The book is so plot heavy that it's hard to talk about much without getting into spoiler territory. But Fforde continues to build a truly unique world and populate it with interesting characters of his own and that he's plucked from other sources. Fforde gives us a Miss Havisham that will never let you look at Dickens the same way again. He also makes it clear that things are not always going to work out exactly as Thursday or the readers want them to work out. The ending is a bit of a cliff-hanger. But then life is a cliff-hanger. And when you're dealing with people who can read themselves into books, travel through time and reintroduce dodos and neanderthals to the world things are going to get messy and take a while to sort out. A rare sequel that's not even a smidge of a let-down.
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