shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 9, 2017 10:14:16 GMT -5
I remember this debate waging when DC released the Fourth World omnibuses a few years back. Having just completed the final issue of the Kirby Jimmy Olsen stories, I lean towards "no". Sure, the title mentions the war with Apocalypse a great deal, many of the enemies Jimmy and the Newsboy legion fight are ancillary Apocalypse villains (including Morgan Edge), and yes -- it's technically Darkseid's first appearance, but none of those stories have any impact whatsoever upon the other Fourth World titles. If you skip New Gods, Forever People, or Mister Miracle, you're missing out on some key aspects of Fourth World continuity, but the Jimmy Olsen stories are sideline adventures at best.
By the way, do Morgan Edge or Intergang ever end up surfacing in the other Fourth World titles once Kirby is off of Jimmy Olsen?
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on May 9, 2017 10:28:56 GMT -5
I say yes, for me it's basically the prologue to the Fourth World story.
Morgan Edge and Intergang... I think their story gets wrapped up in the other Superman books rather than the Fourth World books. Once Kirby is no longer involved with the characters, they go off the rails, and Edge eventually becomes a major supporting character as the jerk version of Perry White at Clark Kent's TV station.
While the story is playing out, they do cross over into Lois Lane a few times, with some important Morgan Edge stuff happening in that title if I remember correctly.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on May 9, 2017 10:57:24 GMT -5
I read these stories as they came out. I always considered Jimmy Olsen as part of Kirby's epic saga. I also thought the Fourth World title referred to the four titles as a whole. I'm positive most readers of that time felt the same
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Post by codystarbuck on May 9, 2017 11:15:13 GMT -5
Well, I have to say yes, they are; but more in a way that Burma was a battleground in WW2. There was plenty of fighting there, but it was more of a sideshow to the bigger conflict. It ties in to what Kirby is doing, in terms of themes and it was supposed to be a gateway to Superman facing bigger opposition. However, the editors at DC were so overly protective of Superman that Kirby had to kind of contain the Olsen stories to their own little corner. It's a firm part at the start; but, the door to the rest of the 4th World is shut pretty quickly.
Morgan Edge is eventually revealed to be a fake and the real Morgan Edge is released from captivity, so they could shove it to the side. Intergang pretty much disappears until the revival and barely then. It lays dormant until the post-Crisis Superman. DC pretty much dumped it for The 100, in the Bronze Age.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 11:34:51 GMT -5
I read these stories as they came out. I always considered Jimmy Olsen as part of Kirby's epic saga. I also thought the Fourth World title referred to the four titles as a whole. I'm positive most readers of that time felt the same Same here. Although now I don't think Jimmy Olsen is essential to the Fourth World saga. |
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Post by berkley on May 9, 2017 17:12:38 GMT -5
Yeah I agree with what's already been said: it's part of it but not essential. In my view, the New Gods was a concept that Kirby would have done as an independent story if he'd been able; or he would have done it at marvel if things had been different. So the fact that he introduced it in the DCU is an accident of history, not an intrinsic part of the concept itself.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 9, 2017 17:39:55 GMT -5
No. It's completely different in tone.
DC reprinted the Jimmy Olsen stuff interspersed with the 3 Fourth World titles a couple years back, and it was just painful. I really like the Jimmy stuff on it's own, but it has a completely different feel despite having some loose ties in the first couple issues.
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Post by Rob Allen on May 9, 2017 18:21:52 GMT -5
Kirby's Jimmy Olsen is "The Hobbit"; the other three books are LOTR.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 13:03:01 GMT -5
In general, I echo Reptisaurus! statement above me very clearly and I felt that he was out of place in the Kirby's Fourth World storyline in general.
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Post by Cei-U! on May 11, 2017 15:55:26 GMT -5
Kirby's Jimmy Olsen is "The Hobbit"; the other three books are LOTR. This. Cei-U! I summon the sheer genius! |
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Post by kirby101 on May 11, 2017 17:24:00 GMT -5
Darkseid's first appearance, nuff said. JO #134  |
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Post by berkley on May 11, 2017 18:30:33 GMT -5
Kirby's Jimmy Olsen is "The Hobbit"; the other three books are LOTR. This. Cei-U! I summon the sheer genius! Clever, but the analogy breaks down for me because I think the Hobbit is in its own way just as good or better than the LotR trilogy; of course some readers may feel the same way about Jimmy Olsen and the Fourth World. But there's another reason: The Hobbit is completely part and parcel of the world Tolkien creatd for the Lord of the Rings, while Jimmy Olsen brings in a lot of external stuff - the entire DCU really - that IMO has nothing to do with the New Gods. |
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Post by Spike-X on May 11, 2017 19:17:22 GMT -5
I would've originally said 'Yes' without question, simply because Kirby's Jimmy Olsen run was reprinted alongside the Fourth World titles in the reprint volumes. However, some good points have been made here as to how the series basically stands on its own.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 12, 2017 7:50:54 GMT -5
Now reading beyond the end of the Jimmy Olsen stories, I'm starting to believe those stories not only didn't fit but were, in fact, stunting the progression of the other three titles. Once Jimmy Olsen is gone, we start getting deep into the backstory of the New Gods / Apocalypse war and start seeing revelations in one title directly impacting another. There's a bond across titles immediately after Jimmy Olsen ends that wasn't there while it was still running.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 7:58:20 GMT -5
No. It's completely different in tone. DC reprinted the Jimmy Olsen stuff interspersed with the 3 Fourth World titles a couple years back, and it was just painful. I really like the Jimmy stuff on it's own, but it has a completely different feel despite having some loose ties in the first couple issues. I have the rights to change my mind about Jimmy Olsen's involvement in the Kirby's Fourth World storyline and I firmly believe that Reptisaurus! is right and I felt it has too many loose ties into in the first two issues that I felt it was completely out of place to begin with. |
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