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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 29, 2017 10:52:05 GMT -5
I didn't mean my comments about Sal Buscema as a slight. His work is perfectly acceptable, but for me, he's just not a guy I would specifically buy a book because he was drawing it, like I would for a Sienkiewicz, Simonson, Windsor-Smith, Wrightson, etc. Same here. In fact, at a certain time, Sal's art would have been a negative point for me. ...Except for his Captain America run. It's very likely the nostalgia factor, but since he was the book's artist when I started reading it regularly, he became the Cap artist for me. I loved the way he drew oversized fists. Even today, his version of Cap is the one I see as the "real" one, even if I find the Byrne version more artistically appealing or Kirby's more creative. |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on May 29, 2017 12:12:00 GMT -5
No worries mate, no offense taken. As one of you said Sals art on PPTSS when self inked was... less appealing than that great work of the 70s. But he never let's you down.
Keep up the good work guys.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on May 29, 2017 12:36:45 GMT -5
For me, Sal is the epitome of Marvel House style in the 70's. He's a very solid superhero artist. Most of the time, I don't even notice when he's drawing a book, the only time I realize it's Sal is because he has a specific way he draws faces with slack-jawed surprise. That's one reason we didn't even mention him until near the end of the first episode - I just forgot about him. I have noticed anecdotally that most people who profess an enjoyment of Sal's work seem to have first encountered him on Hulk in the 70's. Maybe his work was better on the title, maybe it's nostalgia for those specific stories, I don't know, just something I've noticed over the years.
I hope we won't disappoint you too much when we talk about Frank Robbins. I probably wasn't hard enough on him to be honest. I usually like his art, but man, was he a really bad fit for this title. Totally out of place with what Englehart was writing.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on May 29, 2017 12:40:26 GMT -5
I think I just wet myself, using the cover of my favorite comic, talking about an era that includes my favorite story ever, by the best Cap team ever, loading this on the phone now so I can listen on the way to work. Dont let the side down Captain Glad you're listening, hope you enjoyed it! This seems like a good place to post this, since I think I forgot to ever post it in the "What Have You Purchased Lately" thread. Last year my girlfriend and I went to Quebec and I wanted to find a Quebec comic book to bring home as a souvenir. We did find a nice comic book shop, but they only had American comics. Eventually, though, we stopped at a divey used book store and in the back I found a short box of Bronze Age Quebec printings of Marvel books. Most of what they had were Westerns and Conan, but I did come away with this for the princely sum of 75 cents American:  |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 29, 2017 12:55:43 GMT -5
I think I just wet myself, using the cover of my favorite comic, talking about an era that includes my favorite story ever, by the best Cap team ever, loading this on the phone now so I can listen on the way to work. Dont let the side down Captain Glad you're listening, hope you enjoyed it! This seems like a good place to post this, since I think I forgot to ever post it in the "What Have You Purchased Lately" thread. Last year my girlfriend and I went to Quebec and I wanted to find a Quebec comic book to bring home as a souvenir. We did find a nice comic book shop, but they only had American comics. Eventually, though, we stopped at a divey used book store and in the back I found a short box of Bronze Age Quebec printings of Marvel books. Most of what they had were Westerns and Conan, but I did come away with this for the princely sum of 75 cents American: ...and that's exactly the edition I read as a kid!!! What do you think of the black and white art? For some artists, I think it works better. Not so sure about Sal's art in there, but I'm glad I got into Colan and Palmer's Dracula in B&W. *By the way, it's very rare to find an actual comic-book store that doesn't exclusively sell American comics in Quebec... I know of only two, both in Montreal. French language comics are usually sold in regular bookstores. |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on May 30, 2017 3:10:16 GMT -5
Glad you're listening, hope you enjoyed it! This seems like a good place to post this, since I think I forgot to ever post it in the "What Have You Purchased Lately" thread. Last year my girlfriend and I went to Quebec and I wanted to find a Quebec comic book to bring home as a souvenir. We did find a nice comic book shop, but they only had American comics. Eventually, though, we stopped at a divey used book store and in the back I found a short box of Bronze Age Quebec printings of Marvel books. Most of what they had were Westerns and Conan, but I did come away with this for the princely sum of 75 cents American: ...and that's exactly the edition I read as a kid!!! What do you think of the black and white art? For some artists, I think it works better. Not so sure about Sal's art in there, but I'm glad I got into Colan and Palmer's Dracula in B&W. *By the way, it's very rare to find an actual comic-book store that doesn't exclusively sell American comics in Quebec... I know of only two, both in Montreal. French language comics are usually sold in regular bookstores. With your mentioning B+W art, for many years, in my experience as a kid in the 70s , the only way you saw a dc superhero was like that. Through to the early 80s most Marvel titles were collected like that as well. Obviously your talking about reading the issues that way doesn't mean you had the same experience. ... damn how much of a condescending wank do I sound. Mansplaining comics ...bugger!!! So how bout those '49ers  he said randomly choosing some sports team name that everyone in Nth America MUST love thus subtly changing the subject. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 30, 2017 5:30:44 GMT -5
49ers? They play...er... water-polo or something?  (I kind of followed the CFL as a kid but never the NFL). |
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Post by MDG on Jun 2, 2017 5:36:37 GMT -5
Well, you got me interested enough that I got Cap Essentials Vol. 4 (reprinting 157-186) out of the library. I'll probably start reading over the weekend, but that's a lot of Sal B artwork to swallow all at once.
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Post by The Captain on Jun 2, 2017 8:29:45 GMT -5
Well, you got me interested enough that I got Cap Essentials Vol. 4 (reprinting 157-186) out of the library. I'll probably start reading over the weekend, but that's a lot of Sal B artwork to swallow all at once. It's not all Sal B. You eventually get some Frank Robbins' art... ...which will make you wish it was all Sal B. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 2, 2017 9:42:05 GMT -5
Well, you got me interested enough that I got Cap Essentials Vol. 4 (reprinting 157-186) out of the library. I'll probably start reading over the weekend, but that's a lot of Sal B artwork to swallow all at once. It's not all Sal B. You eventually get some Frank Robbins' art... ...which will make you wish it was all Sal B. It's all relative, isn't it? I used to think George W. Bush was a bad president, but now... Back then I was very upset by the Frank Robbins art, and a bit later I didn't much care for Jack Kirby's run... but when Sal came back to the title, it didn't work for me. Too much time had elapsed. |
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Post by MDG on Jun 2, 2017 11:45:01 GMT -5
It's not all Sal B. You eventually get some Frank Robbins' art... ...which will make you wish it was all Sal B. It's all relative, isn't it? I used to think George W. Bush was a bad president, but now... Back then I was very upset by the Frank Robbins art, and a bit later I didn't much care for Jack Kirby's run... but when Sal came back to the title, it didn't work for me. Too much time had elapsed. Robbins' art doesn't work at Marvel--maybe because it wasn't slick enough and--in some ways--too "realistic" for super-heroics. I think it works great for non-powered characters like the Shadow and Batman. Also, he should never, ever have someone else inking him. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 2, 2017 12:07:00 GMT -5
It's all relative, isn't it? I used to think George W. Bush was a bad president, but now... Back then I was very upset by the Frank Robbins art, and a bit later I didn't much care for Jack Kirby's run... but when Sal came back to the title, it didn't work for me. Too much time had elapsed. Robbins' art doesn't work at Marvel--maybe because it wasn't slick enough and--in some ways--too "realistic" for super-heroics. I think it works great for non-powered characters like the Shadow and Batman. Also, he should never, ever have someone else inking him. I haven't seen Robbins' Batman, but I didn't much care for his Shadow... It was the awkward poses more than anything else, really. I did enjoy his Johnny Hazzard, though; I think Robbins does a good job as a comic-strip artist in the Caniff tradition. I completely agree with you on the inking issue... The combination Robbins-Springer was particularly unappealing to my eye, even though I do like Springer's solo work. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 2, 2017 12:23:18 GMT -5
Robbins' art doesn't work at Marvel--maybe because it wasn't slick enough and--in some ways--too "realistic" for super-heroics. I think it works great for non-powered characters like the Shadow and Batman. Also, he should never, ever have someone else inking him. I haven't seen Robbins' Batman, but I didn't much care for his Shadow... It was the awkward poses more than anything else, really. I did enjoy his Johnny Hazzard, though; I think Robbins does a good job as a comic-strip artist in the Caniff tradition. I completely agree with you on the inking issue... The combination Robbins-Springer was particularly unappealing to my eye, even though I do like Springer's solo work. Robbins was fabulous on Johnny Hazzard. And I think he was one of the better Batman writers of the time. And while I don't hate his comic book work...I also don't think it was very strong. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jun 30, 2017 12:50:14 GMT -5
Ok, listened to the whole thing. (I am not a podcast guy. I am not a talk radio or even news radio guy. If podcasts were, like, eight minutes long I could deal.) COMPLETELY agree on Deadpool/Harley Quinn. I am all for goofy, but the combination of "goofy" with "violent sociopath" is just a little too cynical for my taste. Glad to see Englehart's Cap run recognized as one of/THE most important. I'm not saying anything between Steranko and Engelhart's stuff was good, but the Cap searches for himself/searches for America on a motorcycle stuff felt a little bit political. As political as anything Gruenwald did, if that's the standard we're using. Englehart really did do great work with the Falcon; turned Sam into one of my favorite characters. (Until the end of his run, where he... didn't do great work.) Never noticed how both fake '50s Cap and the mad bomber were convinced they were the hero in their own story. That's what made 'em fairly nuanced and effective villains. New York police in the '70s were pretty corrupt, right? That's just a fact. I'd much rather writers base their stories in actual truth rather than being all "rah, rah, yaaaay authority figures!" I'm not sure where y'got the idea that Engelhart wasn't up on Marvel (or Captain America) continuity... I'm fairly sure he bought every Marvel title as a fan, and has always struck me as a fairly continuity heavy writer. I really like how he integrated Patsy Walker into the Beast strip and the Marvel Western Heroes into Avengers. Picking up an old plot point from Tales of Suspense feels pretty consistent with his MO. ("I'm going with they younger, hotter one," made me LOL.) I've read every story from Tales of Suspense # 1 through the end of Cap's first series (the only long running superhero series I've read all of) but a lot of it is a blur. A lot of Gruenwald's stuff is ESPECIALLY a blur, and it's not the quality that sticks with me. I hardly remember the Serpent Society, but Cap-Wolf will never leave me.  I should go back through at least the first half of his run. Although I'm with you guys that bringing back an Atlas Era Kirby strip villain sounds way more Roy-Thomas-y than Englehart. Peyote? I do not remember that, or maybe I just didn't read the text page. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Nightshade is flat out one of my favorite Marvel villains - I don't think I realized that she wasn't specifically depicted as a teenager in her first appearance. I don't really remember anything about the rest of the Yellow Claw arc, though - I like mummies and giant spiders, so it must have been pretty weak to be that forgettable. The cover to Cap # 167 is one of my favorite things Sal did.. until he started inking himself, of course.  |
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 3, 2017 23:38:27 GMT -5
I'm not sure where y'got the idea that Engelhart wasn't up on Marvel (or Captain America) continuity... I'm fairly sure he bought every Marvel title as a fan, and has always struck me as a fairly continuity heavy writer. I really like how he integrated Patsy Walker into the Beast strip and the Marvel Western Heroes into Avengers. Picking up an old plot point from Tales of Suspense feels pretty consistent with his MO. ("I'm going with they younger, hotter one," made me LOL.) I could have sworn he said it in an interview I read, but I can't seem to find anything like that at the moment, so I might have just gotten confused. |
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he said randomly choosing some sports team name that everyone in Nth America MUST love thus subtly changing the subject. 
I should go back through at least the first half of his run. 