I don't understand what your game is here. I don't hold Kirby in as high esteem as most comic fans do, but I can appreciate their
feelings about his work. This is clearly a thread started by a passionate fan to discuss a specific period in Jack Kirby's career with
people who share an affection for this era. More than one poster has hinted that this might not be the place for you to insult the
man's work. It's obvious to me that it's a sensitive subject to these people, and by continually trying to justify all your 
negativity, you're just pissing them off even more. We all get it. You don't think much of this part of his legacy. Leave the people
who do like it alone. You aren't making friends by antagonizing people.
 

You continue to place this movie adaptation, and movie adaptations in general on in a much bigger place than they held, especially in the marvel U.

2001 is my favorite movie, and any adaptation wouldn't do it justice. I found Kirby's take interesting but unsuccessful.

Your mistake continues to be that you demand this one book by a man who is known for his own creations be what defines his output in this period.

You can hate the Eternals or Machineman. You can say his Black Panther sucked and we will agree to disagree.

But To make this Treasure Edition anything bigger than a side note is re-writting history to fit your bias.

We get it, you don't like Kirby, no one says you have to. And you made your point that you think his 2001 was an unmitigated failure.Do you think we don't understand what you are saying? Do you think you will convince others that his 2001 was crap and that means all his later Marvel work is as well? Who are you trying to convince here? Why the need to keep rehashing this one point?

I didn't post the two pages strickley as part of the "2001" debate.
I saw them together and thought they were interesting in the overall context of this thread.

I will touch on your constant negativity toward movie adaptations later. For now, they are not as you are trying to paint them, as they have been many things to comic publishers: a steady profit, prestige, the result of creator interest. Many things, and according to Jim Shooter:



So, Star Wars--a film adaptation--essentially saved Marvel. In the years before, Marvel aggressively pursued rights to the biggest sci-fi films of then-recent memory, including the Apes movies and Logan's Run, and yes, 2001, so despite Marvel's mid-late 70s collapse, they did consider film adaptations to be of a class and order important because of reader interest and--as noted earlier--occasionally creator interest.





Let's be honest. One, this is alleged to be an open forum. Two, I'm not the only member in this thread (and board) to criticize Kirby's work. Three, the worst, most counter-productive form of argument is to attack the messenger instead of the message. Aside from referring to a suspected bias in the use of your screenname (which is not an attack), it seems to be a couple of pro-Kirby members who have made this personal. I, on the other hand focus only on an assessment of his 2nd phase Marvel work, using 2001 as an example of the problems found in his Marvel work of the period. Sorry, but that is not some egregious act.

This forum has endless threads where characters, creators, titles and storylines are examined. When a thread is started with a focus on a period, one would assume it--like others--means its open for analysis of any kind, since that often reflects a good, real world perspective on work, from those who experienced it, and in my case, as it was originally released. George Perez is one of my favorites, but in the Byrne/Perez thread, the criticism of others never prodded me into accusing them of antagonizing me, or giving me a need to suggest negatives that are not there about their character (and would not, as its utterly incorrect) in order to defend Perez, or anyone else. Further, Carmine Infantino's Star Wars work is--obviously-one my favorite periods of the title (hence the avatar and the mix with the Tarkin character name), but in the Star Wars (Marvel) thread, some were quite honest in their criticism of the shortcomings of his work on the book. I posted my side of the analysis, but it never became some would-be character attack on the members in either direction.

Something to think about. 

You speak of saying negative things about Kirby, yet you have wasted no time downgrading movie adaptations (likely because I referred to superior versions in my original 2001 analysis early in this thread, and a few times afterward, so my interest/position was known) as a counter against my 2001 analysis. One can easily suggest you were trying to antagonize me in doing that.




I've already addressed why your own bias seeks to downgrade a major project for Marvel, in points above and in my previous post, but let's not pretend you have not made analysis of a man's work a personal, arguably hostile issue (unjustifiably aimed at me) on this board, when it should not be under any circimstances.

Black Panther #4



Having returned Hatch 22 to the future, our band of treasure hunters is attacked by statues of King Solomon's burial chamber. T'Challa stops the statue's attack and then tells the others to touch nothing. Zanda argues and T'Challa destroys the brass frogs, less she use them for her own purposes. Then, everything starts tumbling down and the trio skeedaddles. They find a chariot taht T'Challa's grandfather had known of and escape, onyl to end up picked up by a helicopter full of Zanda's mercenaries. they are brought to her capital and put in a plush prison. They are put to a test, where they run up against the Sacred Samurai, whom T'Challa defeats. They are brought before the entire group of collectors and sent to infiltrate the hidden city of the Sacred Samurai.

Again, the is fast-paced, pulpy fun and this issue serves to wrap up the adventure of King Solomon's Frog and begin the Quest for the Sacred Water. Kirby takes some shots at collectors, in the form of the movers and shakers of this group, and their need to possess things and the mania behind it. I don't think it is directed to comic collectors; but, does go on to show that obsession can take hold and overwhelm.

Black Panther #6



T'Challa and Mr Little face a samurai, guardian of the hidden city, wherein lies the Fountain of Youth. T'Challa disarms the swordsman, who demands that he be allowed the honor of seppuku (which Kirby calls the cruder kara kiri) to regain face. T'Challa refuses and wants to preserve life. He asks to speak to the leader to decide the matter. The samurai, one of 9 ronin who founded the city, leads him into the hidden, underground city (shades of The Phantom Empire), a truly wondrous sight to behold. There, he argues that the samurai live and offers to return the sword to the leader. he must prove himself against the city's champion and a fight begins. While everyone is distracted, Little tries to steal the water from the Fountain. This brings down a s@#$-storm. While this goes on, an unseen half-brother of T'Challa, Gen. Jakarra, brings about a coup at the Wakanda royal palace, unseating the regent N'Gassi.

Kirby dabbles in a bit of philosophy, showing that swords don't make great warriors and there is little honor in throwing away life. You can sense Kirby's wartime experiences filtering in here. Meanwhile, he pokes at the Collectors, who seek to possess to exhibit, while ignoring the cultural significance, a battle of collectors vs museums vs tribal guardians. Through it all, Kirby continues in his pulp tales of hidden cities, lost races, and buried treasure. he shows the influences of his youth and the experiences of his adulthood, in one package. He also launches a subplot, obviously inspired by the many coups and counter-coups in Africa, during the tumultuous post-independence years (and to this day), dabbling in an area that Don McGregor explored, in Panther's rage. However, his usurper isn't some super villain rebel, like Erik Killmonger or the White Ape; this is family, a stunted man angry at the world. A Napoleon and Hitler, who has seized power in an African nation with advanced technology and a wonder mineral.

Issue 7



T'Challa and Mr Little face a horde of swords.



Kirby pulls a swerve and T'Challa reasons his way out of the situation, taking the container of water from Little and giving it back to the leader of the ronin. He secures their safe passage from the city and they return to a rendezvous point, where Princess Zanda's jet copter picks them up. They return to her land and show the collectors empty hands. Zanda threatens to launch missiles at Wakanda; but, T'Challa calls her bluff, again winning via the power and truth of his words. Little reveals a vial of the water and the Collectors descend like vultures. Little tells T'Challa to go and use the diversion, tossing him the vial. It is shattered by a gunshot and Zanda lets him go. meanwhile, in Wakanda, Jakarra unleashes the power of raw vibranium and finds himself transformed, unleashing the danger that the Panther Cult has long guarded against. N'Gassi is fred and takes charge, summoning the royal family and we meet Joseph Itobo, a doctor, as the first arrival.

This is something different from Kirby, as the master of dynamic action uses words to end conflict, showing that he had more storytelling tricks in his bag. Oh, there's plenty of action; but, there are real ideas here, life issues at play in this metaphoric tale. Kirby understands storytelling far better than the young punks who made snide comments behind his back in the halls at Marvel. While they said he was out of touch he showed that he was timeless, while they were busy mining his creations. How little has changed.

Issue 8



The issue opens with T'Challa's remembrance of how he won the mantle of the Black Panther...



His memries are interrupted by the sight of two men in a life raft. he offers aid and discovers they are mobsters, who want to head for Corsica. They try to hijack the copter and cause it to crash. T'Challa survives and begins the long journey to Wakanda, on foot, carrying one of the two surviving men. meanwhile, Jakarra is on a rampage in his monstrous form. The royal family is assembled but wants to avoid their role, while N'Gassi tries to persuade them to lead. Jakarra attacks and the smallest family ember, Joseph, is the one who stands and fights. The others come to his aid and find themselves following his example. The issue ends on a cliffhanger, as T'Challa may not reach Wakanda in time to save it from Jakarra's infection.

Good stuff, though mostly setting the scene. Kirby revisits T'Challa's past, as he did in the previous issue, where he told of the crashing of a meteor, which brought vibranium to Wakanda. Now he is adding sci-fi to pulp adventure and myth.

Issue 9



T'Challa is weak and passes out in the desert. While this happens, his family fight Jakarra, in Wakanda. they were uniforms, with different color schemes and panther masks, looking like an African Power Rangers team. Khanata (a race car driver) hits Jakarra with a modified car. Zuni (a woman) snares Jakara, while financial dealer Ishanta (male) fires a gas bomb at Jakarra. it slows him enough for Joseph (the doctor), to slap a mask on him, which anesthetizes him. They have succeeded, though they are costing Wakanda money. They lack the wisdom of T'Challa and Joseph experiments on Jakarra. He tames the mind of jakarra; but, the monster awakens and heads for the vibranium mound, like an automaton. While this occurs, T'Challa is found by what turns out to be a group of actors, filming a sci-fi movie in the North African desert. There is a woman, dressed like a princess, a dwarf in a robot costume, and another man in a metal suit. Hmm.......that seems familiar. T'Challa creates a bit of chaos to swipe some transport and head off to Wakanda.

The Panther Rangers (or Black Musketeers, as Kirby calls them) are an interesting addition and they get a bit of fun. I almost feel like Kirby is poking fun at those who have mined his past work; but, i think I am projecting my own ideas into his work. The movie set is an obvious nod to Star Wars, which drew much inspiration (or blatantly swiped) from Kirby. Another irony here is that Kirby would be tangentially involved in a con, involving scouting locations for a sci-fi movie, in Iran, during the Hostage Crisis. Kirby had created designs for characters and costumes for a proposed film adaptation of Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light. Kirby also designed potential attractions for a sci-fi-themed amusement park, to be built in conjunction with the film. The project went bankrupt; but, make-up man Jonathan Chambers provided Kirby's artwork to intelligence agents, who used it as a cover story to get a team of American diplomats out of Tehran, as detailed (with much dramatic license) in the film Argo.

Issue 10



Jakarra is lumbering towards the vibranium mound and the militia can't stop him (anymore than the JDF could stop Godzilla). The Musketeers have a cure, but, must inject it into Jakarra. T'Challa swipes a plane from the Sudenese military and flies back to the Panther mound, and lands in the secret airstrip inside. he rushes off. The Musketeers move closer to the marauding, mindless Jakarra, hoping to avert the chain reaction he will set off if he enters the vibranium mound. T'Challa shows up, grabs the injector and tries to use it on Jakarra, with much battling and a final prick. Disaster is averted.

Kirby kind of rushes the climax; but, it's pretty effective. It does feel rather like a Godzilla film.