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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 15, 2017 21:15:05 GMT -5
Eternals #8  Thena doesn't look so bad-ass in this one; she must be playing it up for Kro. Our story opens in a gladiatorial match, being watched by Lord Tode and other Deviants. One guy is kicking everyone else's backside from Sunday to Saturday, looking like a Kirby version of a luchador...  Tode calls a halt to the donnybrook and orders the Reject be brought forth and Kirby muses what the Deviants would consider a Reject. The peanut gallery is calling for his head for being defiant and not one of them. Tode calls for him to be unmasked and reveal the hideous form of ....  This handsome dude. WTF? Well, when you look like a human or Eternal, in a city of monsters, you tend to be the outcast. Tode decrees he must keep fighting until they find someone who can knock his block off. Meanwhile, Kro and Thena talk about old times. Kro still has the hots for her but, she puts him in the friend zone. Ouch! Turns out, she is probably more afraid of what daddy would think, or her buddies. Shallow, shallow goddess/superbeing. Kro says he's gotta head hom and want her to come with him and meet his folks, so to speak.  Sersi messes around with Dr Samuel Holden, while Kro and Thena slip off. The doc is mad, necause his resident Deviant and squeez left without notifying him and Sersi tells him to lighten up and dance, as she transforms objects in the room into a big band. Thena has gone with Kro to Lemuria. They are welcomed when they arrive and a deformed creature is driven off when he stumbles into Thena. She hears of Purity Time and Kro shows her. Death Wagons have scooped u the truly deformed and are taking them to a building with vast energy and flames emerging from it, to purify the Deviants. It's pretty chilling as Kirby definitely seems to be aiming for a Holocaust metaphor, especially the early targeting of the mentally ill, who were often gassed in trucks, with the exhaust filtered into the truck, poisoning them with carbon monoxide. Kirby's version is more elaborate but no less horrific. Kro leads her on as combat is about to begin. The Reject gets a suit of flexible armor and turns on his handlers and snatches his weapon away from them. They flee to dry their britches. Thena is brought before Tode and insults him. She isn't happy about the combat, either. Kro urges patience, as they are fighting a millenia of fear and ignorance. She see the Reject and how handsome he is, questioning if he is a Deviant. The Reject notes she loos like him, yet sits with royalty. Then, his opponent enters the arena...  Our story ends as the Reject goes off to face this monster. Outstanding issue, as we learn more of Kro and Thena's unrequited attraction to each other and how he convinces her to return to his people. We meet Ransak, the Reject, one of the more engaging characters, a Deviant who is hideous to Deviants, because he is so handsome. This idea is a bit borrowed from Dr Doom, where Kirby's concept was that he had a bit of a scar on his face, but was otherwise handsome. He feels he is hideously scarred because his perfection is marred by a slight flaw. It also matches an old Twilight Zone episode. Sersi has a bit of fun for a few panels and Kirby also throws some hard metaphors at us. One of the best issues so far. Now, with Karkas here, it's going to get even better! |
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Post by berkley on Jul 17, 2017 21:06:00 GMT -5
Eternals #5 Featuring the debuts of Thena, Makarri and Zuras, King of the Eternals, as well as the city of Olympia. When we left Sersi, she was using a mirror to contact the Eternals, at Olympia... After exchanging taunts with Makarri, the mutates attack and grab her and Margo. Makarri witnesses this and goes off to tell Zuras, who is engaged in a life size game of Rock 'Em-Sock "Em Robots... Thena remarks that the Deviants are in more trouble, holding Sersi, but, she itches for battle and Zuras fulfills her wish. meanwhile, Zuras has eyebrows that would make Jeff Corey envious! Thena and Makarri take one of his speedsters and head for New York. Meanwhile, Sersi and Margo are brought before Kro and Sersi has some fun... Kro is a poor sport and Margo is threatened. The ladies are whisked away in Kro's ship, while Thena and Makarri open a can of whoop-ass on the mutates. The issue ends with scenes of an Air Force general being shown surveillance photos of the Andes, complete with the dome over the landing site and Arishem. The pucker factor goes up to 10. Lots of action and more fun from Sersi and Thena gets to join in the hijinks, with her crossbow... Thena is Daddy's Little Girl; but, she is a buttkicker! Makarri is depicted as an immortal teenager, living for speed. He is mocked by Sersi, Zuras and Thena. About the only thing he has going for him is a pretty cool design, from Kirby. Thena gets a bust that could knock down walls and an armored headpiece. She isn't quite the pin-up model that Sersi is; but, she packs some oomph. If only Kirby had gotten to do Wonder Woman! Would have been a heck of a lot better read than Kanigher, that's for sure. Lot more lively art than she got in the 70s, too. The series keeps going from strength to strength. Next issue, the Marvel Universe intrudes. Falling behind - I find there's so much to comment on in the Eternals, it's hard to keep up! I don't want to derail CodyStarbuck's review thread, so I'll just make the odd comment here and there. I thought Zuras was interesting because he's quite different from previous Kirby "father-god" figures such as Odin, Zeus, or Highfather: much less distant and, to put it crudely, "stuffy". Visually he's younger and more vigorous: in fact, he's in prime maturity, just as the Zeus of Greek myth was meant to be. His and Thena's relationship is also very close to Greek myth - much more so than anything Marvel has ever done with their MU versions of the actual Greek pantheon. "Daddy's little girl" doesn't quite capture it, to me. As we see throughout her storyline, she really isn't a spoiled, over-indulged child: she almost always turns out to know what she's doing, even when she isn't totally sure of herself (which doesn't happen often, but it does happen). So the free reign Zuras tends to give her reflects a deeper understanding of her character on his part rather than a weak parent's over-indulgence. I love their whole dynamic - that little introductory scene where they're playing the game together is a personal favourite - but once again, no other writers ever seem to pick up on it, for no reason that I can see other than that it falls outside their sadly limited experience as superhero comic readers and writers. In some ways she's the Thor to Zuras's Odin, in MU terms - but no later Eternals writer has been interested in the tremendous opportunities this scenario gives them. I'm a little easier on Makarri too: I think his more happy-go-lucky persona was a nice contrast to Ikaris's conventional alpha-male heroism, and one of the few things I liked about Gaiman's miniseries was that he made Makarri one of the central figures. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 17, 2017 22:14:45 GMT -5
Eternals #5 Featuring the debuts of Thena, Makarri and Zuras, King of the Eternals, as well as the city of Olympia. When we left Sersi, she was using a mirror to contact the Eternals, at Olympia... After exchanging taunts with Makarri, the mutates attack and grab her and Margo. Makarri witnesses this and goes off to tell Zuras, who is engaged in a life size game of Rock 'Em-Sock "Em Robots... Thena remarks that the Deviants are in more trouble, holding Sersi, but, she itches for battle and Zuras fulfills her wish. meanwhile, Zuras has eyebrows that would make Jeff Corey envious! Thena and Makarri take one of his speedsters and head for New York. Meanwhile, Sersi and Margo are brought before Kro and Sersi has some fun... Kro is a poor sport and Margo is threatened. The ladies are whisked away in Kro's ship, while Thena and Makarri open a can of whoop-ass on the mutates. The issue ends with scenes of an Air Force general being shown surveillance photos of the Andes, complete with the dome over the landing site and Arishem. The pucker factor goes up to 10. Lots of action and more fun from Sersi and Thena gets to join in the hijinks, with her crossbow... Thena is Daddy's Little Girl; but, she is a buttkicker! Makarri is depicted as an immortal teenager, living for speed. He is mocked by Sersi, Zuras and Thena. About the only thing he has going for him is a pretty cool design, from Kirby. Thena gets a bust that could knock down walls and an armored headpiece. She isn't quite the pin-up model that Sersi is; but, she packs some oomph. If only Kirby had gotten to do Wonder Woman! Would have been a heck of a lot better read than Kanigher, that's for sure. Lot more lively art than she got in the 70s, too. The series keeps going from strength to strength. Next issue, the Marvel Universe intrudes. Falling behind - I find there's so much to comment on in the Eternals, it's hard to keep up! I don't want to derail CodyStarbuck's review thread, so I'll just make the odd comment here and there. I thought Zuras was interesting because he's quite different from previous Kirby "father-god" figures such as Odin, Zeus, or Highfather: much less distant and, to put it crudely, "stuffy". Visually he's younger and more vigorous: in fact, he's in prime maturity, just as the Zeus of Greek myth was meant to be. His and Thena's relationship is also very close to Greek myth - much more so than anything Marvel has ever done with their MU versions of the actual Greek pantheon. "Daddy's little girl" doesn't quite capture it, to me. As we see throughout her storyline, she really isn't a spoiled, over-indulged child: she almost always turns out to know what she's doing, even when she isn't totally sure of herself (which doesn't happen often, but it does happen). So the free reign Zuras tends to give her reflects a deeper understanding of her character on his part rather than a weak parent's over-indulgence. I love their whole dynamic - that little introductory scene where they're playing the game together is a personal favourite - but once again, no other writers ever seem to pick up on it, for no reason that I can see other than that it falls outside their sadly limited experience as superhero comic readers and writers. In some ways she's the Thor to Zuras's Odin, in MU terms - but no later Eternals writer has been interested in the tremendous opportunities this scenario gives them. I'm a little easier on Makarri too: I think his more happy-go-lucky persona was a nice contrast to Ikaris's conventional alpha-male heroism, and one of the few things I liked about Gaiman's miniseries was that he made Makarri one of the central figures. "Daddy's little girl" was just a joke. I think Kirby had a good handle on it as he had 3 daughters (Susan, Barbara, and Lisa). So many writers of that same period were younger guys, many of whom weren't even married, let alone had kids. They really didn't write those kinds of relationships. I agree about the other mythical characters being rather stuffy. With Odin, it was part of the mth; or at least, Kirby's depiction of him, and Stan's response in the dialogue. In many of the Norse myths, he's not quite so majestic (and Thor is kind of a butt-head). I think the whole "grand opera" styling of Thor kind of affected every other mythical pantheon they introduced, since most came out of Thor. |
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Post by berkley on Jul 17, 2017 23:20:15 GMT -5
Falling behind - I find there's so much to comment on in the Eternals, it's hard to keep up! I don't want to derail CodyStarbuck's review thread, so I'll just make the odd comment here and there. I thought Zuras was interesting because he's quite different from previous Kirby "father-god" figures such as Odin, Zeus, or Highfather: much less distant and, to put it crudely, "stuffy". Visually he's younger and more vigorous: in fact, he's in prime maturity, just as the Zeus of Greek myth was meant to be. His and Thena's relationship is also very close to Greek myth - much more so than anything Marvel has ever done with their MU versions of the actual Greek pantheon. "Daddy's little girl" doesn't quite capture it, to me. As we see throughout her storyline, she really isn't a spoiled, over-indulged child: she almost always turns out to know what she's doing, even when she isn't totally sure of herself (which doesn't happen often, but it does happen). So the free reign Zuras tends to give her reflects a deeper understanding of her character on his part rather than a weak parent's over-indulgence. I love their whole dynamic - that little introductory scene where they're playing the game together is a personal favourite - but once again, no other writers ever seem to pick up on it, for no reason that I can see other than that it falls outside their sadly limited experience as superhero comic readers and writers. In some ways she's the Thor to Zuras's Odin, in MU terms - but no later Eternals writer has been interested in the tremendous opportunities this scenario gives them. I'm a little easier on Makarri too: I think his more happy-go-lucky persona was a nice contrast to Ikaris's conventional alpha-male heroism, and one of the few things I liked about Gaiman's miniseries was that he made Makarri one of the central figures. "Daddy's little girl" was just a joke. I think Kirby had a good handle on it as he had 3 daughters (Susan, Barbara, and Lisa). So many writers of that same period were younger guys, many of whom weren't even married, let alone had kids. They really didn't write those kinds of relationships. I agree about the other mythical characters being rather stuffy. With Odin, it was part of the mth; or at least, Kirby's depiction of him, and Stan's response in the dialogue. In many of the Norse myths, he's not quite so majestic (and Thor is kind of a butt-head). I think the whole "grand opera" styling of Thor kind of affected every other mythical pantheon they introduced, since most came out of Thor. Very true, and I think a little bit of the traditional Judaeo-Christian God the Father as a dignified and rather distant, unapproachable old man made its way into Kirby's Odin & Zeus as well. I liked that there was very little ceremony about Zuras's role as Prime Eternal: in fact, their whole culture is kind of anarchic, with everyone doing pretty much what they feel like, though Zuras's authority is very real when he feels it necessary to exert it. I think it's telling that in the Gaiman miniseries they made Zuras broader and stockier, physically more like Kirby's Odin and Zeus than his Zuras - another small sign of how unsympathetic both creators were to the original series. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 18, 2017 0:29:50 GMT -5
"Daddy's little girl" was just a joke. I think Kirby had a good handle on it as he had 3 daughters (Susan, Barbara, and Lisa). So many writers of that same period were younger guys, many of whom weren't even married, let alone had kids. They really didn't write those kinds of relationships. I agree about the other mythical characters being rather stuffy. With Odin, it was part of the mth; or at least, Kirby's depiction of him, and Stan's response in the dialogue. In many of the Norse myths, he's not quite so majestic (and Thor is kind of a butt-head). I think the whole "grand opera" styling of Thor kind of affected every other mythical pantheon they introduced, since most came out of Thor. Very true, and I think a little bit of the traditional Judaeo-Christian God the Father as a dignified and rather distant, unapproachable old man made its way into Kirby's Odin & Zeus as well. I liked that there was very little ceremony about Zuras's role as Prime Eternal: in fact, their whole culture is kind of anarchic, with everyone doing pretty much what they feel like, though Zuras's authority is very real when he feels it necessary to exert it. I think it's telling that in the Gaiman miniseries they made Zuras broader and stockier, physically more like Kirby's Odin and Zeus than his Zuras - another small sign of how unsympathetic both creators were to the original series. I started reading the Gaiman take when the hardcover came out. Thankfully, I didn't pay for the privilege (one of the benefits at B&N was that we could check out hardcover books, to expand our knowledge to better sell the title, provided we kept it in salable condition), as I quickly was turned off by it and gave up reading it. I love Neil gaiman's writing; but, it was just way off base here. I also wasn't that enthused by 1602. It really felt like Gaiman and the Marvel Universe weren't quite as compatible as Gaiman and the DC Universe. DC was always more of a writer-driven company (well, writer-editor), which provided a lot of potentialities in various characters and concepts. Marvel was more visually-oriented, though it showcased plenty of great writing. gaiman is a visual writer; but, he just didn't seem the click with Marvel characters. With the Kirby stuff, it is opera, while I think Neil would rather be doing Shakespeare, with more of a folkloric touch (ala Lord Dunsany). |
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Post by berkley on Jul 18, 2017 17:11:11 GMT -5
Eternals #6 I suspect Makarri is playing a bit of Jerry Lee Lewis there... We pick up the story where we left off, with Thena and Makarri blasting the Deviants and mutates... Thena takes out the backbone of the mutates and the police get the drop on Kro, as Thena moves in and joins them... Thena is surprised to see that Kro still lives, as Deviants are not as immortal as the Eternals. Kro replies that some of the Deviants are far stronger than others. Surprisingly, he offers a truce and surrenders to Thena, stating he has achieved his purpose, equating the Celestials with "devils" leading the humans to fear and make war on the Celestials, to aid the Deviants in driving them off. Thena demands to see Sersi, who is still being held, with Margo. Margo is still being threatened, though Seris laughs it off and messes with the Deviants.. She also belittles Margo, but all ends well. A Deviant captain dismisses the goons and tells Sersi of the truce. She forces them to retrieve Ikaris from the bottom of the sea. Thena informs them all of the truce and her plan to sway the humans to unite peacefully with the Eternals to deal with the Celestials reasonably. To do this, they need to introduce the different species to humans, via academic sources. Margo suggests a friend of her father. They travel to him and are presented, along with Kro (representing the deviant strain), to an audience. The Eternals demonstrate their powers to the incredulous humans. While this goes on, a team of agents nears the Incan city and sees a celestial, close up! So, the initial battles between Deviant and Eternal come to an end and we get a taste of Kro and Thena's past. That will turn into an interesting element of the series. Sersi shows that she can be a real bitch, to friend and foe alike, which is part of her charm. Finally, the Marvel Universe invades the series, via a gag as Sersi turns an audience member into Ben Grimm and then via the reference to SHIELD, in conjunction with the agents. It seems like it was a last minute addition, as the ben Grimm stuff never says that Grimm is more than a comic book character in this world and the SHIELD reference is in one panel, at the very end. Roy and other editors wanted the Eternals to interact with the rest of Marvel and play with the characters themselves. This was an appeasement, though not quite what they wanted. Kirby wanted this to be its own saga and pretty much sticks to his guns. Unfortunately, the mass audience wasn't coming along for the ride. Their loss, in my opinion, as this series was blowing away a lot of its contemporaries; certainly conceptually and from a character standpoint. Again, Kirby suffered for being ahead of the curve. Like david bowie with music, Kirby was always 5 steps ahead of everyone else in the game. Bowie had better lick at getting the audience to come along, as Kirby tended to work in a broader sense. Even the young turks who were drinking from Kirby's cup fared no better, as Thanos and his ilk never proved popular enough to really carry things, in Captain Marvel. Stalin's work was cult, at best, though it was younger cult. he just spoke with a younger voice. Roy probably appreciated Kirby more than most; but, even he watered it down. One thing I believe gets missed about that opening scene is how efficiently Thena handles the whole problem: she orders Makarri to help her, the two of them pretty quickly rout the Deviant troops - and this takes some skill, force, and intelligence, it isn't just a matter of overwhelming them with power - and force them to surrender: Kro doesn't really have much choice, so there's more than a little bravado behind his offer of a truce. At the same time, Thena just does the practical thing and accepts, not bothering to correct him. Instead, she cuts to the crucial question: will Kro's plan succeed or are the humans more enlightened than he's counting on? This cutting to the core of the situation is characteristic: another key bit of dialogue comes a little later when Thena tells Ikaris "Cease this hostility! Old feuds have no place in universal issues," and then goes on to encapsulate what I think is one of the basic ideas underlying the whole Eternals story: "Our task is to unite all our species in an effort to deal peacefully with the Space Gods!" Note that that's "ALL our species", not just Eternals and Humans. This is one of the things that makes the Eternals a very different thing from the New Gods. Near the end of the issue she drives the point home: "Once our three species can face each other -- we can then confront the Space Gods!" But as we see in next several issues, it's going to take some doing to convince not only humans but also most of her fellow Eternals of this and I think that's what the rest of the series would have been all about, in large measure. BTW, in that same panel near the end, Sersi's response to Thena is a line that I think sums up her character: "The Space Gods! If they put an end to joy - they put an end to all things!" She's an embodiment of the Pleasure Principle, the drive to seek pleasure and enjoyment above all else. One more point I think later writers tend to miss: authority within the Eternals social structure is a subtle, usually unobtrusive thing. Even Zuras only exerts his occasionally and there is little or no ceremony or ritual or paraphernalia to signify or reinforce it. But Thena, possibly as the daughter of Zuras, also exerts an understated authority: no one questions the truce she's arranged on her own initiative, not even Sersi or Ikaris two wild-cards who have good reason to be angry at the Deviants over the personal mistreatment they've recently been subjected to. As is the case so often, Kirby shows a subtlety here far beyond most other comics writers, who would have had a lot of speechifying and posturing to reinforce the idea. Probably this is why no one else has ever taken up the idea. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 22, 2017 16:54:45 GMT -5
Eternals #9  Ikarus, Makarri and Margo are flying towards Olympia when they are attacked by a flying creature...  Ikarus attacks and the beast explodes, revealing another. Eventually, Makarri spots the source, a floating young man, identified as Sprite.  They chase down the miscreant to discipline him. Zuras laments that disconcern of youth, as he looks at scenes of Celestial activities across the globe. Hezzar is in Siberia, being monitored by the Soviet government, Oneg in Australia, Hargen in the Swiss Alps. Then, Eson appears off Miami Beach, creating unrest and panic. Eson then sinks below the surface and heads for Lemuria, where Kro and Thena are about to observe the Reject fight Karkas. Reject blasts Karkas with his weapon and Karkas roars that he is like the others, trying to hurt him and asks why> Reject continues and Then berates Tode for the spectacle and feels that Reject is doomed to die. However, his savagery overcomes Karkas and he seems to have him near death. He is stopped by Tode and the handlers, then turns on them and attacks in savagery. His attack is blocked by energy fields, then the events are interrupted by the arrival of Eson. The Deviants attack, with no result. Eson sucks out all energy from the city and the story closes with Reject moving forward, like a tiger closing in on its prey. This is a savage issue, as Reject proves that beauty can hide a killing mind. He attacks Karkas with no remorse and no holding back, beating him down. At this point, karkas seems like a typical Kirby monster, misunderstood and hurt, not the poet we will come to know. We see the world react in panic to the Celestials. We see more of the youth of Olympia and see that Zuras is not an all powerful ruler and instead seems more of a father, trying to rein in unruly children. The danger is growing and we sense that big things are about to occur, making us want to return to see what happens next. Karkas is another of my favorites, with the monstrous body hiding the soul of a poet and comic. The duo of Reject and Larkas are a delight as stories progress and even into the later stories in Thor, from Roy Thomas. Thena continues to show strength and character, as she stands defiant against the Deviants and their combat. Though Kro stands by his people, he wants Thena's approval and love. There's some really great character dynamics going on here. |
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Post by batusi on Jul 22, 2017 19:08:28 GMT -5
I remember wanting to love the return of Kirby to Marvel, but something was missing. I hate to say Kirby's art and talent was declining, but...I guess it was. Kirby was at his stride in the mid 60's, by the mid 70's NOT much so.  I remember in Kirby's later Marvel years when he would draw dynamic figures and then I would look at the fists and notice the clenched fingers were always the same length!! The blockiness & unnatural look was more defined in later years. Kirby hit his stride in the mid sixties, not a bad thing, just a fact. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 22, 2017 21:11:57 GMT -5
I remember wanting to love the return of Kirby to Marvel, but something was missing. I hate to say Kirby's art and talent was declining, but...I guess it was. Kirby was at his stride in the mid 60's, by the mid 70's NOT much so. I remember in Kirby's later Marvel years when he would draw dynamic figures and then I would look at the fists and notice the clenched fingers were always the same length!! The blockiness & unnatural look was more defined in later years. Kirby hit his stride in the mid sixties, not a bad thing, just a fact. Depends on your point of view, really. Art is subjective. In my younger days, I wasn't a fan of Kirby's blocky style; but, I was drawn to his more epic series. In rereading these, I marvel at the mythical quality he brings to the New Gods and the Eternals and I have grown to really appreciate his art. He moved more into the abstract, less of the defined. He varied a bit, depending on the story. When he was really into it, it is magnificent. When he is just producing professional work to fulfill his contract, it is still interesting. I see things in his art I didn't appreciate in my younger days, since I have exerienced more and I can better see where he is coming from. I'm not a fan of the Impressionists, preferring the great illustrators; but, Kirby, even abstract, is a storyteller, which appeals to the same sensibilities in me that are drawn to the work of NC Wyeth and Maxfield Parish, even if he doesn't have the same clean style. Some things that seemed weird and goofy then are still weird and goofy; but, they appeal more, as I see that maybe Kirby is satirizing something I didn't get before. I do think his line deteriorated, though more at the end of the decade than this point. By the 80s, health problems had taken a toll on his work. Thing is, if there was any justice in the world, he should have been enjoying a well deserved retirement, producing collages for his own enjoyment. Sadly, animation treated him better than comics did, monetarily and even respect, even if less of his work was seen by the public (as he did more presentation and design work, to pitch to the networks). |
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Post by kirby101 on Jul 22, 2017 21:30:53 GMT -5
Well said cody. He was telling stories. Not drawing just pretty pictues. Though some of those pictures were still impressive.
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Post by tarkintino on Jul 23, 2017 9:22:15 GMT -5
I remember wanting to love the return of Kirby to Marvel, but something was missing. I hate to say Kirby's art and talent was declining, but...I guess it was. Kirby was at his stride in the mid 60's, by the mid 70's NOT much so. I remember in Kirby's later Marvel years when he would draw dynamic figures and then I would look at the fists and notice the clenched fingers were always the same length!! The blockiness & unnatural look was more defined in later years. Kirby hit his stride in the mid sixties, not a bad thing, just a fact. Yes, it is a fact, just as its also a fact that Kirby work from the earliest Silver Age period was hard--choppy, but would be elevated to what would be considered his "classic" period--thanks to the sculpting ink work of Syd Shores and Frank Giacoia, who are (arguably) comic history's most underrated talents considering how much they made Kirby into what most know and/or assume about his work. Well said cody. He was telling stories. Not drawing pretty pictues. Though some of those pictures were still impressive. Pictures in this medium are supposed to be visually appealing, not jarring / distracting to the point where the readers is constantly taken out of the story, panel to panel. Just browse the work of Neal Adams, John Romita (senior), Nick Cardy, Jim Steranko, Wally Wood, Al Williamson, Carmine Infantino, Gene Colan, and others (with or without inkers) who successfully married striking, attractive art with the needs of the story. That kind of work draws the reader in, serving both purposes, instead of being distracting. |
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Post by kirby101 on Jul 23, 2017 9:49:32 GMT -5
I remember wanting to love the return of Kirby to Marvel, but something was missing. I hate to say Kirby's art and talent was declining, but...I guess it was. Kirby was at his stride in the mid 60's, by the mid 70's NOT much so. I remember in Kirby's later Marvel years when he would draw dynamic figures and then I would look at the fists and notice the clenched fingers were always the same length!! The blockiness & unnatural look was more defined in later years. Kirby hit his stride in the mid sixties, not a bad thing, just a fact. Yes, it is a fact, just as its also a fact that Kirby work from the earliest Silver Age period was hard--choppy, but would be elevated to what would be considered his "classic" period--thanks to the sculpting ink work of Syd Shores and Frank Giacoia, who are (arguably) comic history's most underrated talents considering how much they made Kirby into what most know and/or assume about his work. Well said cody. He was telling stories. Not drawing pretty pictues. Though some of those pictures were still impressive. Pictures in this medium are supposed to be visually appealing, not jarring / distracting to the point where the readers is constantly taken out of the story, panel to panel. Just browse the work of Neal Adams, John Romita (senior), Nick Cardy, Jim Steranko, Wally Wood, Al Williamson, Carmine Infantino, Gene Colan, and others (with or without inkers) who successfully married striking, attractive art with the needs of the story. That kind of work draws the reader in, serving both purposes, instead of being distracting. As far as I know Shores did like 3 or 4 Cap issues with Kirby. Giaccoia was a stalwart inker, but if anybody was Kirby's key inker then it as Sinnot. And in the 70s Royer. And there are those of us who as well as loving Kirby's story telling, also think his art was great to look at. There is a reason that the Artist Editions of his work from IDW are best sellers. You don't care for how he drew, fine, but I (and I assume many others) will not concede that he wasnt a wonderful, striking artist. |
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Post by tarkintino on Jul 23, 2017 11:16:06 GMT -5
I did not forget Sinnot, but provided examples. Regarding Shores, what work he did over Kirby's pencils was beyond outstanding and stand as some of the "best of" Kirby in that period. About mid-late 1970s Kirby at Marvel, I'll put it this way--  The Invaders #3 (November, 1975) and Captain America #193 (January, 1976). Kirby with Romita produced something actually palatable...exiting, where the eye absorbed not only style, but the story being told on the cover, instead of being blocked by jarring, robotized characters. Far different than mid-late 1970s Kirby left to his own tendencies (with or without Royer, who really did not tone down or positively modify Kirby's extremes), where the average mouth appeared to be screaming, legs were 6-8 feet apart in a run, etc. The point being is that his skills were not on a consistent level with what had come before, while his extremes made the drop in quality take center stage. |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jul 23, 2017 14:04:46 GMT -5
This may be going too far afield, since the subject is Kirby's return to Marvel, but since the topic of inkers and Kirby's art has come up, I personally think one of Kirby's best inkers was Joe Simon. Their styles meshed really well, and the end result was what I think is among the most aesthetically pleasing art produced by Kirby. In fact, their collaboration in general produced some great stories in the '40s and '50s, as Simon had a much better ear for dialogue than Kirby did on his own.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 25, 2017 16:18:58 GMT -5
Eternals #10  Eson is at the doorstep of Lemuria. The Deviants respond... Eson doesn't listen and stretches his hand past their defenses, absorbing information as it goes. However, his actions cause flooding within the underwater city. When he has what he wants, he moves on. meanwhile, Zuras is watching other Celestials around the world. he stretches to their ship above the Earth and taps the mind of the "One above all," the commander of the Fourth Host. The power knocks him back. He tells Domo that the Unifier call must be sounded. All across Olympia, Eternals pause as they hear this call and respond. Ikaris is interrupted in his spanking of Sprite and follows. Margo is invited to join, if she wishes. Sounds like an Eternal orgy, if you ask me. Back in lemuria, Thena receives the call. While Reject thrashes guards, Kro leaps to her defense and is attacked. Thena stops reject with energy bolts. Thena says she must answer the call, though Kro begs her to stay. Karkas asks for sanctuary and seeing the sensitive soul inside the monstrous body, Thena grants it. Reject berates her for sitting with the Deviants and Karkas ask that reject also be given sanctuary. Thena grants it and departs with the two mutates, leaving Kro behind. Things are going into higher gear now, as the Celestials make more aggressive contact with the Deviants and they fight. Zuras feels the power of the space gods and calls for all of his people to unite. That call is felt around the world. Thena takes in two Deviant mutates, to show them something beyond the hateful society of the Deviants, and we begin the Hope/Crosby relationship of Ransak the Reject and Karkas, one of the best elements of the series. Right now, the Celestials seems unstoppable and frightening. How do you fight gods from space? The Eternals seem to think they have a way to make contact or stop them, or both. We will see what this Unifier is. Next, we head to the Soviet Union and see how they deal with a Celestial and uncover an even bigger surprise. |
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I remember in Kirby's later Marvel years when he would draw dynamic figures and then I would look at the fists and notice the clenched fingers were always the same length!! The blockiness & unnatural look was more defined in later years. Kirby hit his stride in the mid sixties, not a bad thing, just a fact.
