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Post by EdoBosnar on Aug 11, 2017 3:08:40 GMT -5
Chadwilliam, thanks for that wonderful, extensive write-up of B&B 200 (Barr has always been one of my favorite Bat-scribes).
Also, to add to Bert's point upthread about Willi Smith: not only was he very known in fashion design circles in the 1980s, his cameo appearance in the Spider-man wedding annual had additional weight because he died right around the time that it came out.
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Post by berkley on Aug 11, 2017 3:31:27 GMT -5
This is a great, epic storyline, but for my money it's still not quite as great as Simonson's Surtur Saga from #337 through #354! I wasn't reading Marvel at that time or even noticing their comics on the stands much, so I always forget about Simonson's Thor, even though I'm a fan of his artwork. I will try it one day, though. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 11, 2017 7:41:07 GMT -5
This is a great, epic storyline, but for my money it's still not quite as great as Simonson's Surtur Saga from #337 through #354! I wasn't reading Marvel at that time or even noticing their comics on the stands much, so I always forget about Simonson's Thor, even though I'm a fan of his artwork. I will try it one day, though. I was a huge fan of that run when it came out but, strangely enough, I was not as thrilled when I re-read it a few years ago. The fault lies not with Walt's brilliant work, but in all those who imitated his approach (on that title and others) since then. "Thor loses his hammer" or "Thor is defeated -for real, in a fair fight" were groundbreaking ideas at the time. Likewise the serious treatment of Norse myths. Ditto for "it's Ragnarok -seriously!" Even "Thor abandons his secret identity" was something unthinkable. "Odin is gone for good!" was also a brand new development. "Thor and Sif break up!"... Well, you get the idea. Walt was doing new stuff with Thor, but not just for shock value (like "let's have Thor sleep with the Enchantress"). It all made sense, and it all made for a gripping story. Since then, Mjolnir has been lost or destroyed so often that I lose count; Thor has been depowered, killed, maimed, and he even lost his own name. Asgard went through half a dozen Ragnaroks or more. Odin has died, come back, died again, come back again, etc. All the new stuff that Walt brought in has been redone again and again in different guises. I hope you'll get the chance to experience that saga without being influenced by what came later... Simonson really turned the character around in those days. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 11:20:58 GMT -5
Brave and the Bold 200  I picked this up back in February when they released it digitally and really, really enjoyed it. |
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Post by Rob Allen on Aug 11, 2017 12:41:12 GMT -5
This one was pretty sweet.   I think this is the splash page that caused some problems behind the scenes. Back then, artists generally did not get the original art back. Dave Cockrum asked for this splash back, but DC wouldn't give it to him. So he quit the book, and that's why Mike Grell became the Legion artist. |
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Post by berkley on Aug 11, 2017 13:13:17 GMT -5
I wasn't reading Marvel at that time or even noticing their comics on the stands much, so I always forget about Simonson's Thor, even though I'm a fan of his artwork. I will try it one day, though. I was a huge fan of that run when it came out but, strangely enough, I was not as thrilled when I re-read it a few years ago. The fault lies not with Walt's brilliant work, but in all those who imitated his approach (on that title and others) since then. "Thor loses his hammer" or "Thor is defeated -for real, in a fair fight" were groundbreaking ideas at the time. Likewise the serious treatment of Norse myths. Ditto for "it's Ragnarok -seriously!" Even "Thor abandons his secret identity" was something unthinkable. "Odin is gone for good!" was also a brand new development. "Thor and Sif break up!"... Well, you get the idea. Walt was doing new stuff with Thor, but not just for shock value (like "let's have Thor sleep with the Enchantress"). It all made sense, and it all made for a gripping story. Since then, Mjolnir has been lost or destroyed so often that I lose count; Thor has been depowered, killed, maimed, and he even lost his own name. Asgard went through half a dozen Ragnaroks or more. Odin has died, come back, died again, come back again, etc. All the new stuff that Walt brought in has been redone again and again in different guises. I hope you'll get the chance to experience that saga without being influenced by what came later... Simonson really turned the character around in those days. Yes, that's too bad and even though I haven't read those later comics that endlessly repeated Simonson's innovations I am aware of a lot of that stuff just from frequenting comic book websites like this one, so it will have an effect. But I'll give it a try one day. To be honest, right now I'm more interested in Simonson's current book, Ragnarok, than in his 80s Thor. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 11, 2017 13:35:01 GMT -5
I was a huge fan of that run when it came out but, strangely enough, I was not as thrilled when I re-read it a few years ago. The fault lies not with Walt's brilliant work, but in all those who imitated his approach (on that title and others) since then. "Thor loses his hammer" or "Thor is defeated -for real, in a fair fight" were groundbreaking ideas at the time. Likewise the serious treatment of Norse myths. Ditto for "it's Ragnarok -seriously!" Even "Thor abandons his secret identity" was something unthinkable. "Odin is gone for good!" was also a brand new development. "Thor and Sif break up!"... Well, you get the idea. Walt was doing new stuff with Thor, but not just for shock value (like "let's have Thor sleep with the Enchantress"). It all made sense, and it all made for a gripping story. Since then, Mjolnir has been lost or destroyed so often that I lose count; Thor has been depowered, killed, maimed, and he even lost his own name. Asgard went through half a dozen Ragnaroks or more. Odin has died, come back, died again, come back again, etc. All the new stuff that Walt brought in has been redone again and again in different guises. I hope you'll get the chance to experience that saga without being influenced by what came later... Simonson really turned the character around in those days. Yes, that's too bad and even though I haven't read those later comics that endlessly repeated Simonson's innovations I am aware of a lot of that stuff just from frequenting comic book websites like this one, so it will have an effect. But I'll give it a try one day. To be honest, right now I'm more interested in Simonson's current book, Ragnarok, than in his 80s Thor. Did you catch his Elric prequel limited series from the late ,90s or early '00s? I only read the first issue but it had impressed me. The most fun Elric had been in decades. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 14:15:16 GMT -5
Yes, that's too bad and even though I haven't read those later comics that endlessly repeated Simonson's innovations I am aware of a lot of that stuff just from frequenting comic book websites like this one, so it will have an effect. But I'll give it a try one day. To be honest, right now I'm more interested in Simonson's current book, Ragnarok, than in his 80s Thor. Did you catch his Elric prequel limited series from the late ,90s or early '00s? I only read the first issue but it had impressed me. The most fun Elric had been in decades. Is that Elric: The Making of a Sorcerer? If so, I have the trade of that, and it is quite good. Simonson also did the art for the Moorcock's Multiverse 12 issue maxi-series from the Helix imprint at DC (of which 1 issue still eludes me). And then there's Star Slammers... -M |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 11, 2017 14:24:56 GMT -5
Yes, that's the one.
I only read the Star Slammers graphic novel; wasn't there a continuing series at one point?
I really liked the art on the graphic novel.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 14:27:09 GMT -5
Yes, that's the one. I only read the Star Slammers graphic novel; wasn't there a continuing series at one point? I really liked the art on the graphic novel. There was an unfinished mini that was part of the Malibu Bravura line for Star Slammers. It got cut short when the imprint ran into financial and legal difficulties. Simonson completed the mini in the pages of Dark Horse Presents (in a special I believe). The whole thing was released in a new edition as a floppy by IDW around the same time Ragnarok was released. -M |
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Post by Chris on Aug 11, 2017 15:00:56 GMT -5
Speaking of Anniversary issues... From the letters column of Adventure Comics 467 (cover date Jan. 1980)  Full page  Personally, I thought Adventure Comics #700 was really good. Side note - if i recall right, that letter writer, Barbara Long, ended up marrying another letter writer, Al Schroeder III or something like that. |
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Post by String on Aug 12, 2017 15:51:00 GMT -5
I was a huge fan of that run when it came out but, strangely enough, I was not as thrilled when I re-read it a few years ago. The fault lies not with Walt's brilliant work, but in all those who imitated his approach (on that title and others) since then. "Thor loses his hammer" or "Thor is defeated -for real, in a fair fight" were groundbreaking ideas at the time. Likewise the serious treatment of Norse myths. Ditto for "it's Ragnarok -seriously!" Even "Thor abandons his secret identity" was something unthinkable. "Odin is gone for good!" was also a brand new development. "Thor and Sif break up!"... Well, you get the idea. Walt was doing new stuff with Thor, but not just for shock value (like "let's have Thor sleep with the Enchantress"). It all made sense, and it all made for a gripping story. Since then, Mjolnir has been lost or destroyed so often that I lose count; Thor has been depowered, killed, maimed, and he even lost his own name. Asgard went through half a dozen Ragnaroks or more. Odin has died, come back, died again, come back again, etc. All the new stuff that Walt brought in has been redone again and again in different guises. I hope you'll get the chance to experience that saga without being influenced by what came later... Simonson really turned the character around in those days. Yes, that's too bad and even though I haven't read those later comics that endlessly repeated Simonson's innovations I am aware of a lot of that stuff just from frequenting comic book websites like this one, so it will have an effect. But I'll give it a try one day. To be honest, right now I'm more interested in Simonson's current book, Ragnarok, than in his 80s Thor. Ragnarok is an amazing title by Simonson, free of the constraints of Marvel's canon, he's able to tell the type of Norse god stories that he really loves. Though you never really hear a lot of buzz about it which is a shame. Heartily agree about the Surtur Saga, in fact Simonson's entire Thor run. Even before this 'golden age of reprints', this was one run that Marvel kept in print circulation. They just released a new volume set of it, 5 trades in all with the new coloring by Steve Oliff and Olyoptics. Simonson's epic pages just POP off the page now, love it. |
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Post by String on Aug 12, 2017 15:58:57 GMT -5
My first anniversary issue was LSH #300 (also first ever Legion story). So had no idea really of what was going on or how the vignette alternate reality stories linked into Legion lore. The art was simply incredible when I flipped through it and it was superheroes in space, what more do you want. (Kudos to them though for including the double page spread of the entire team at the end. It still looks fantastic though it did look intimidating as if to warn, See what you are getting into?) I just recently read JLA #200 for the first time on digital and man, that was FUN! Great story that linked back to the original gathering, a terrific mix of classic artists, and even Snapper Carr was tolerable. Another long-time favorite anniversary issue:  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2017 16:02:55 GMT -5
I just recently read JLA #200 for the first time on digital and man, that was FUN! Great story that linked back to the original gathering, a terrific mix of classic artists, and even Snapper Carr was tolerable. That's another favorite of mine, String and it's a great story to boot ... very entertaining and nostalgic that goes back to the original gathering as you mentioned in your post. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Aug 12, 2017 18:15:12 GMT -5
Chadwilliam, thanks for that wonderful, extensive write-up of B&B 200 (Barr has always been one of my favorite Bat-scribes). Also, to add to Bert's point upthread about Willi Smith: not only was he very known in fashion design circles in the 1980s, his cameo appearance in the Spider-man wedding annual had additional weight because he died right around the time that it came out. B&B 200 is one of my faves. I remember buying it off the newsstand. Two Batmans, how awesome is that?! Too bad it was the last issue of B&B. |
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