shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,874
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Post by shaxper on Aug 14, 2017 5:53:39 GMT -5
It's safe to say that most franchises that have been in print long enough have at least one great "definitive run" that truly nailed it and gave the franchise new life.
And yet there are some well known franchises out there where I have no idea if/when they ever had a definitive run.
First example: The Flash. I know he was commercially successful at many points in comic history, but (volume 2 #123 aside) I wouldn't have the slightest idea where to look for the truly great Flash stuff.
Some others:
The Atom
Phantom Stranger
Ms. Marvel
Ant-man and Wasp
She-Hulk
Marvel Two in One
Marvel Team-Up
DC Comics Presents
What were the runs that made these franchises great and justified their legacy and longevity?
Feel free to add your own and/or answer mine.
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 14, 2017 6:06:44 GMT -5
My favorite Flash run was the 1987 run by Mike Baron and Jackson Juice # 1-18. I loved it and re-read it every year. It was the Wally West run. ( No pun intended).
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Post by brutalis on Aug 14, 2017 7:40:45 GMT -5
The Thomas/Buscema Avengers run which was running opposite the Lee/Heck Avengers run in Marvel Triple Action. Both of these hooked me immediately and made Avengers "my" team. 2 incredibly different takes and styles which totally worked for me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2017 8:40:58 GMT -5
Brave and Bold
DC Comics Presents
Marvel Two in One
Marvel Team-Up
I would say this that these four books are my favorites because of their unpredictable run of what Heroes will appear in the next issue and this adds excitement to these books. Marvel Two in One is a classic so is Brave and Bold for DC and these two books are at it's top of their games. I like DC Comics Presents for it's charm and appeal and Marvel Team Up is a winner in my book because of it's uniqueness because it's has it's moment.
It's these four books two from DC and two from Marvel are always be my favorites for life.
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Post by Prince Hal on Aug 14, 2017 8:49:35 GMT -5
  shaxper , for me, hailing as I do from the Pleistocene Era, the definitive Atom is his original run from 1962 through 1968 (issues 1-37; # 38 was an anomaly by Robbins, Sekowsky and Roussos). The Kane/Greene or Kane/Anderson art was always exquisite. The stories, if somewhat lightweight by today's existential standards, were clever, and the Atom/Ray Palmer was an engaging character who recognized his limitations and was brilliant at turning his liability into a strength. And GREAT covers!   |
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Post by berkley on Aug 14, 2017 9:15:07 GMT -5
It's safe to say that most franchises that have been in print long enough have at least one great "definitive run" that truly nailed it and gave the franchise new life. And yet there are some well known franchises out there where I have no idea if/when they ever had a definitive run. First example: The Flash. I know he was commercially successful at many points in comic history, but (volume 2 #123 aside) I wouldn't have the slightest idea where to look for the truly great Flash stuff. Some others: The Atom Phantom Stranger Ms. Marvel Ant-man and Wasp She-Hulk Marvel Two in One Marvel Team-Up DC Comics Presents What were the runs that made these franchises great and justified their legacy and longevity? Feel free to add your own and/or answer mine. For Marvel Team-Up I'd say the John Byrne issues, mainly for the artwork. Marvel Two-in, I'd start with the George Perez issues, but I believe Ron Wilson also had a nice run on there. She-Hulk is a character I dislike both on principle and in practice, but I do have the Steve Gerber run in back-issues, just because it's Gerber. haven't read them yet, though. The Phantom Stranger: I think I asked about this one myself a few eyas back and the consensus was to start with the Jim Aparo run. I have most of the back-issues now but, again, haven't read them yet. |
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Post by The Captain on Aug 14, 2017 9:31:12 GMT -5
There are only a couple od these that I can speak to.
Marvel Two-In-One - the only set of stories that really stand out is the Project Pegasus storyline. Other than those issues, the series doesn't really have any memorable "run" due to its nature of being designed to be episodic (the best single issue is toward the end of the series, where Ben sits down for drinks with Sandman).
Ms. Marvel - I'll be honest, I have her first two solo series (the 23-issue Bronze Age one and the 50-issue run from the late '00s - early '10s), and I can't really say there was a defining run in either of those. There was an enjoyable set of issues in the upper-teens/low-twenties of her second series where she led a team that included Machine Man and Sleepwalker, but it sticks in my head because of them, not her. I like Carol Danvers as a character, and I don't believe she's had her defining run yet.
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Post by Prince Hal on Aug 14, 2017 9:54:26 GMT -5
It's safe to say that most franchises that have been in print long enough have at least one great "definitive run" that truly nailed it and gave the franchise new life. And yet there are some well known franchises out there where I have no idea if/when they ever had a definitive run. First example: The Flash. I know he was commercially successful at many points in comic history, but (volume 2 #123 aside) I wouldn't have the slightest idea where to look for the truly great Flash stuff. Some others: The Atom Phantom Stranger Ms. Marvel Ant-man and Wasp She-Hulk Marvel Two in One Marvel Team-Up DC Comics Presents What were the runs that made these franchises great and justified their legacy and longevity? Feel free to add your own and/or answer mine. Without a doubt. Stunning art, inside and often on the covers, from 19-27. Maybe a couple more? |
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Post by brutalis on Aug 14, 2017 10:22:04 GMT -5
For Flash: Barry Allen starts with issue 105 through 174. You have Gardner Fox/John Broome and Carmine Infantino strutting their stuff. Highlights include Infantino's sleek art, science-fiction oriented heroics, amazing new villains, reintroduction of Jay Garrick/Earth 2 and intro of Kid Flash. Very much a comic reflecting the time it was created in and yet still fun today.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Aug 14, 2017 11:34:40 GMT -5
Mark Grunewald's run involving the Project Pegasus arc. Few notable crossovers but a well-written story arc. Claremont's & Byrne's run is a classic that gets too little attention in my view. The only issues that stand out for me comprise the Starlin run which featured Mongul (I'll throw in the Hawkgirl crossover because it was also drawn by Starlin). |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 14, 2017 11:54:53 GMT -5
The only issues that stand out for me comprise the Starlin run which featured Mongul (I'll throw in the Hawkgirl crossover because it was also drawn by Starlin). I'd agree with that. I generally think Starlin is a poor writer on regular superhero fare. And DCCP never really had a run. To the extent that there is a definitive run it's probably this. |
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Post by MWGallaher on Aug 14, 2017 12:38:02 GMT -5
The Phantom Stranger: I think I asked about this one myself a few eyas back and the consensus was to start with the Jim Aparo run. I have most of the back-issues now but, again, haven't read them yet. Although I love all of the Aparo issues, the particularly "definitive run" is issues 14-24, most of which are by the team of Len Wein and Jim Aparo, and form an interconnected saga centered on the "Dark Circle" cult. Issue 24 is a powerful conclusion, with a heart-breaking ending. One might well argue for extending this "definitive run" through to issue 26, since they were by the same writer/artist team (although Len had co-writers on both those issues). These issues lead to another series wrap-up that resolves the Frankenstein backup, which had been running for a few issues, and the Stranger's conflicts with Dr. 13, who had been the co-feature of the book in its earliest issues. At that point, I'm convinced the book was planned for cancellation, but a last minute reprieve left them scrambling for a new creative team and direction that wasn't really ready or particularly suited to the character, starting in issue 25. |
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Post by MWGallaher on Aug 14, 2017 12:50:48 GMT -5
Another definitive run worth noting is David Michelinie and Gerry Talaoc's stint on the Unknown Soldier feature in Star-Spangled War Stories 183-203. Great stuff, even if you don't particularly like war comics or Talaoc's distinctive style of art. The Bob Haney stories that followed these issues, although they ran for several more years, are nearly unreadable by comparison. And curiously, Talaoc was shifted over to doing only the inks over Dick Ayer's pencils, which were quite obviously based on Joe Kubert's detailed layouts. I think the book would have looked almost exactly the same if Ayers was taken out of the loop.
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Post by badwolf on Aug 14, 2017 12:52:21 GMT -5
I was a big fan of Geoff Johns' Flash run with Scott Kolins and others on the art.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Aug 14, 2017 13:05:25 GMT -5
On those team-up books, it's kind of hard to pick out a specific run and call it definitive, because so many different writers and artists move through them, and people's tastes vary.
For Marvel Team-up, others mentioned the Claremont/Byrne issues, but I'd expand that to Claremont's entire tenure on the title, which ran from issue #s 57 through 89 (although there was a few in there he didn't write). That includes all of the issues drawn by Byrne, but also the excellent 4-parter that revolves around Black Widow suffering from amnesia (#s 82-85). And I know I'm probably an outlier on this, but I also liked the 20 or so issues preceding that (sort-of) Claremont run, when most of the stories were written by Bill Mantlo (and most of the art is by Sal Buscema).
Marvel 2-in-1: the first 10 or so issues written by Steve Gerber are pretty good. After that, I'd say the sweep from #50 (the Thing meets the Thing story by Byrne) through #70 is probably the best run of back-to-back issues on that title. It includes the much-lauded Project: Pegasus story, plus the Her/space opera 3-parter that segues into the Serpent Crown 3-parter and some really good individual stories sprinkled in there (like #51, featuring the Thing, Nick Fury and a few Avengers saving the Helicarrier from a siege by sky pirates, or #60, a funny team-up with the Impossible Man); most of the stories are by Mark Gruenwald and Ralph Macchio, and you've got art by Perez, Byrne, Bingham, Gene Day, Frank Miller, Ron Wilson and Mike Nasser.
On DC Comics Presents, while I agree with Mikelmidnight and Slam Bradley that the issues Starlin participated in are quite good (and to be fair, the Mongul 3-parter was written by Len Wein, the Starman story in #36 was written by Paul Levitz, and the story in #37 was co-written by Roy Thomas), I liked most of the initial run of that series. By that I mean everything from #1 through #37 - I recall losing interest in the series after that, with only a few worth picking up (e.g. #59, featuring the Legion of Substitute Heroes, or #61, the action-packed Omac team-up with art by Perez). That initial run, though, had some solid stories, and mostly really nice art, with the issues drawn by Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez (PBHN) standing out in particular.
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