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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 16:28:51 GMT -5
For what it's worth coming from this relative newcomer to this group, if this is the Classic Comics Forum's idea of being rude, you guys are still far and away the most polite and pleasant group I've ever encountered on the internet. I didn't even know there was an issue, but that's probably because I'm so scarred and jaded by the rest of the internet. True enough. That struck me this morning when I was reading a thread on Baseball Think Factory & came across a post by a guy (who, as it happens, used to post on CBR, or at least in Comics Should be Good, & for all I know still does; he's a genuinely good guy, from everything I've ever seen) in which he advised the individual he was responding to that "You are a really, REALLY awful person" & "The world would be a better place without you in it." Now, the posts that prompted those sentiments were pretty bad, & his statements were a bit much, but they didn't really exceed standard BTF vitriol by all that much, really.
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,759
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Post by shaxper on Jul 18, 2014 16:47:05 GMT -5
Wow. When Dan B. thinks someone has gone too far, you know that's saying something!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 16:53:39 GMT -5
I was disturbed by the lack of four-letter words (even though they would've been bleeped out).
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Jul 18, 2014 16:56:18 GMT -5
What in everyociety defines being perverted? What do you think of when you hear the word pervert? I was on the treadmill at the gym doing my late night 30 minute run and there was this girl about my age in front of me on the exercise bike about ten feet. As I'm running I notice her...and well, to be frank, she had a nice ass. It made the run a little less daunting than usual. There weren't very many people around at the time. What can I say, I appreciate women with good physiques. But at what point does a man overstate their bounds? When you look too long? When other people notice you gawking? If you are married like myself yet still observe? Is it even fine to have any kind of provocative thoughts at all about any one stranger as long as one doesn't act upon them or disclose details? So where is the line drawn? Is it too subjective of an ideal because of perceptions across different cultures too? What say you? Good question, and there's no right answer because all men have an innate temptation to look, and all women have a right to feel violated when someone is objectifying their body and they are not inviting it. Also, there are women who may want certain types of attention at certain times. I guess context is everything. Because a woman that attends a night club in a short skirt can't expect men to not look and not think certain thoughts.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 18, 2014 17:01:05 GMT -5
I wonder if we could get Jim Steranko to convince Roy Thomas to slap Joe Quesada? Who's with me on this?
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Post by Rob Allen on Jul 18, 2014 17:10:04 GMT -5
Speaking of Roy, he posted this in a few places earlier today:
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 18, 2014 17:31:39 GMT -5
Good question, and there's no right answer because all men have an innate temptation to look, and all women have a right to feel violated when someone is objectifying their body and they are not inviting it. Also, there are women who may want certain types of attention at certain times. I guess context is everything. Because a woman that attends a night club in a short skirt can't expect men to not look and not think certain thoughts. Well, that's a contentious issue with a slippery slope surrounding it. My wife is fond of saying that a woman should be able to walk down the street butt-naked without being treated any differently. Obviously, were a woman doing that, I would look, but where's the dividing line between expected reaction and inappropriate? For example, looking for a brief moment and thinking certain things is understandable, but staring, following, grazing past, touching, all those things go too far, but some men wouldn't feel that way. At a certain point, we get back to the old cliche of the date rapist who argues "she was asking for it" because of the way she dressed or danced. I think it's okay to feel temptation and to look, but not to treat the subject as if she's invited oggling. Most women, I've learned, dress to feel good about themselves or to impress other women, not to impress men, so that woman in the short skirt isn't necessarily wearing it as an advertisement to watch her butt all night long.
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Jul 18, 2014 17:59:00 GMT -5
Also, there are women who may want certain types of attention at certain times. I guess context is everything. Because a woman that attends a night club in a short skirt can't expect men to not look and not think certain thoughts. Well, that's a contentious issue with a slippery slope surrounding it. My wife is fond of saying that a woman should be able to walk down the street butt-naked without being treated any differently. Obviously, were a woman doing that, I would look, but where's the dividing line between expected reaction and inappropriate? For example, looking for a brief moment and thinking certain things is understandable, but staring, following, grazing past, touching, all those things go too far, but some men wouldn't feel that way. At a certain point, we get back to the old cliche of the date rapist who argues "she was asking for it" because of the way she dressed or danced. I think it's okay to feel temptation and to look, but not to treat the subject as if she's invited oggling. Most women, I've learned, dress to feel good about themselves or to impress other women, not to impress men, so that woman in the short skirt isn't necessarily wearing it as an advertisement to watch her butt all night long. That is an interesting way to look at the situation. I suppose it's just one of those things like manners where aren't any pre-defined laws telling how civil people should behave in the confines of modern day society, but at the same time the general public is expected to act and abide by a unspecific standard. But unfortunately everyone isn't raised the same and relayed the same messages. I think communication on a global scale has made that easier at least. Anyways, after reading your last statement, it brought back a memory of me being in college on one of the school's shuttles and a group of five or six girls were conversing behind me. I believe they were student-athletes at my school, which was a private "art" school interestingly enough. I believe it was a Friday and they were talking about going out to a club or something. One of them said they didn't know what to wear, and her friend just told her to wear something "sluttly". I can't remember if they were thinking about impressing some guys later one or whatever, but I just found that comment and exchange amusing. And I wasn't sure what to think. For me, I just keep my thoughts to myself as far as most of these matters are concerned or at the very least speak in anonymity online in a discussion such as them amongst other anonymous individuals. I'm not going to lie. There are times when I want to talk to other guys about women and sometimes those conversations are well, "guy like" in nature. Maybe even objectifying in nature I'm not proud to say. Talking about how good a woman looks. Now some men take their descriptions to levels I won't go and have no bones about it, but for me even in secret I guess I'd say I'm reasonably civil and don't take things past a PG-13 level. And if I'm not talking within an online seclusion it's usually only with a friend that I know feels comfortable talking about women beyond "she is nice" or "she is attractive". Some of my friends I can tell just wouldn't be into certain kinds of conversations that probably go beyond rated G or PG.
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,759
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Post by shaxper on Jul 18, 2014 18:07:39 GMT -5
I suppose it's all a gray area. Sexually or otherwise, some people are offended to be talked about behind their backs, and others aren't. Some would be flattered to be discussed in such a way, some disturbed, and some totally indifferent.
Look, some people like to get attention sexually, and that's okay, but the danger is in assuming someone wants sexual attention (and therefore should get it in an unrestrained fashion) because of what they are wearing.
But if you want to discuss what you'd like to do someone and in what quantities to a third party out of range of that person's hearing without ever actually imposing yourself on that person, I think that's just a personal choice. I feel inappropriate doing such a thing, but if you don't, and it isn't harming someone, why not? It's better than catcalling.
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Jul 18, 2014 18:37:28 GMT -5
I suppose it's all a gray area. Sexually or otherwise, some people are offended to be talked about behind their backs, and others aren't. Some would be flattered to be discussed in such a way, some disturbed, and some totally indifferent. Look, some people like to get attention sexually, and that's okay, but the danger is in assuming someone wants sexual attention (and therefore should get it in an unrestrained fashion) because of what they are wearing. But if you want to discuss what you'd like to do someone and in what quantities to a third party out of range of that person's hearing without ever actually imposing yourself on that person, I think that's just a personal choice. I feel inappropriate doing such a thing, but if you don't, and it isn't harming someone, why not? It's better than catcalling. Yeah I know. I'm not looking for any specific answer to my original inquiry. Just exploring people's thoughts on the dynamic.
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,759
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Post by shaxper on Jul 18, 2014 20:06:07 GMT -5
Well you've got mine
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Post by dupersuper on Jul 18, 2014 21:50:43 GMT -5
I, for one, would prefer that such things be conveyed via interpretive dance from now on. All together now- JAZZ HANDS!!
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Post by zryson on Jul 18, 2014 22:34:16 GMT -5
Yesterday, while the world was recoiling in horror once more from a senseless act of violence (the apparent shoot down of the Malaysia Airlines passenger jet with almost 300 people), I got to visit a bookstore. A secondhand bookstore. I was so grateful for the opportunity, because it’s like being in a world away from the world. Just surrounded by books is an immensely comforting feeling.
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,759
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Post by shaxper on Jul 18, 2014 22:36:16 GMT -5
Yesterday, while the world was recoiling in horror once more from a senseless act of violence (the apparent shoot down of the Malaysia Airlines passenger jet with almost 300 people), I got to visit a bookstore. A secondhand bookstore. I was so grateful for the opportunity, because it’s like being in a world away from the world. Just surrounded by books is an immensely comforting feeling. I love second-hand book stores, particularly the older, dingier ones. Time stands still there, and you can sense a million treasures hiding in those stacks, beckoning to be unearthed.
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Post by zryson on Jul 18, 2014 22:41:48 GMT -5
The love-affair with secondhand bookstores goes right back to my earliest days, when I would spend countless hours in stores, often sitting on the floor, surrounded by stacks of books. It was like stepping into another world. Every visit, promised new and wonderful things.
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