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Post by EdoBosnar on Nov 20, 2024 9:16:00 GMT -5
But this has always been our world. Well, at least in my lifetime, this tracks. K-12 students have a much smaller array of experiences to draw from, and at least in the late 90s, awareness of major brands was more top of my mind for most of us than finding little-known secret gems (unless we were talking about music). There was pressure to fit in, have the right brands, match your friends, and it's easier to be more aware of that on a national name-brand level. I feel like exploring the old town square with historic buildings and quaint local shops and restaurants is more for those of us whose joints creak every time we stand up. I mean, geez, I remember thinking Olive Garden was a fancy dinner. Or Picadilly cafeteria because you always heard the clink and clatter of real plates and flatware. If proboards had a facepalm emoji or one for cringing in embarrassment, I'd use it here. Kids are gonna be kids, and they have to start somewhere. It's all good. Yeah, I was just going to say something similar; I recall when I was a teen in the 1980s, sitting down at a place like Denny's - what with a waiter or waitress who served your food - was considered kind of upscale and 'adult' compared to the burger or pizza joints we were more apt to frequent. |
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Nov 20, 2024 9:30:04 GMT -5
I mean, have you had their rolls? I still get excited when I get to go there (don't live near one anymore, sadly). But this has always been our world. Well, at least in my lifetime, this tracks. K-12 students have a much smaller array of experiences to draw from, and at least in the late 90s, awareness of major brands was more top of my mind for most of us than finding little-known secret gems (unless we were talking about music). There was pressure to fit in, have the right brands, match your friends, and it's easier to be more aware of that on a national name-brand level. I feel like exploring the old town square with historic buildings and quaint local shops and restaurants is more for those of us whose joints creak every time we stand up. I mean, geez, I remember thinking Olive Garden was a fancy dinner. Or Picadilly cafeteria because you always heard the clink and clatter of real plates and flatware. If proboards had a facepalm emoji or one for cringing in embarrassment, I'd use it here. Kids are gonna be kids, and they have to start somewhere. It's all good. Not criticizing the kids; Rather, I feel sad for them. I'm criticizing our world and the corporate stranglehold that I've seen tighten in my own lifetime. I still remember the days before "fast, casual dining" when restaurants HAD to offer soup and salad with an entree, or else they were considered a rip-off. And when food there had to actually taste good and service had to be good, or people would not go. Cheesecake factory does not need to offer, value, flavor, nor a quality dining experience because people will flock to it just because they know the name. And that's sad. More people gravitate to restaurant chains than smaller unique locally owned restaurants for the same reason more comic readers/fans gravitate to big 2 super-heroes like Batman, X-Men and Spider-Man than more unique works like Corto Maltese or stuff by Crumb or Bagge or Ware-it offers more of a shared communal experience, which validates one's identity within the community. It's the same everywhere-people seek out films that are blockbusters or that get Oscar buzz than truly indy films, etc. It's about more than the food, it's the experience and the shared communal experience matters as much as the food. In adolescents and young adults, it sometimes matters more, as they are still figuring out their identity, trying out various masks and roles to se what fits or works best, and they are still developing their palettes and tastes so the differences between Panda Wok and a locally owned more authentic Chinese place may not be as noticeable to them because they don't have the range of experience to process it yet. It may be the world today, so to speak, and the details may be different, but the process of that world isn't really all that different than what we went through in our youth. Going to Chuck E. Cheese or Pizza Hut provided all kinds of benefits to our shared communal experience even if there was far better pizza out there, but the pizza wasn't necessarily the point of going there instead of the local pizzeria. Yes a broader range of experiences is important, but so is the sense of communal shared experiences, and often the shared experiences form the foundation that allows later exploration and gives context to the new experiences to allow folks to learn and grow from them and make those explorations worthwhile. So absolutely keep suggesting they broaden their horizons, but don't criticize them if they are still establishing the ground from which they see the horizon from and choose to solidify that before seeing what else is out there. Because sometimes the experience they are seeking or need is belonging not discovery. -M |
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 20, 2024 9:39:24 GMT -5
For me, it’s a deep issue pertaining to variety and support of independent businesses on my high street; I have had McDonalds meals myself (although Burger King’s burgers are better). There are a lot of fast-food outlets on my high street, and it does seem like there is more litter than ever. Litter is a universal problem, but it doesn’t seem to be as bad when I’ve been to smaller places which have more independent, non-food outlets. It does seem like the proliferation of fast-food outlets has made my high street worse as far as litter is concerned. (And I don’t blame just them, there’s so many coffee shops, that discarded coffee cups are a problem, too) Really, though, I do wish my high street could have more variety. There was a tie shop years ago. Computer repair shops. A bookshop. Independent outlets of all kinds. It seems that the big chains - and I am not singling out just one chain - have made British high streets a bit “cookie cutter”. I have driven to numerous towns and cities where it’s all very identikit: lots of coffee shops, lots of fast-food outlets, lots of pawn shops, lots of shops selling vapes, etc. And, of course, the big chains. One bookmaker, William Hill, was somehow able to have TWO shops on one street years ago. I do like it when I go to a more independently-inclined town or suburb, where you might have an independent DIY store, a tie shop, an independent greengrocer, etc. So the proliferation of the likes of McDonalds is, for me, more about everything looking the same than any particular ideological opposition to one chain. A student yesterday was bragging to me that her boyfriend must love her a lot because he took her to Cheesecake Factory. "Cheesecake Factory?" I asked. "Wouldn't you like to go somewhere a little more special?" "Oh, he's taken me to Texas Roadhouse," she bragged. I tried to explain to her the idea of going to a small, locally owned restaurant with more robust flavors, lower prices, and a sense of uniqueness and charm you can't find at a major chain restaurant. I even asked her favorite food (Chinese), and tried to tell her about my favorite romantic place to take my wife for Chinese, but it all went over her head. Panda Wok is magical enough, apparently. This is our world now. You’re too young to yell at the clouds… |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 20, 2024 9:48:53 GMT -5
So absolutely keep suggesting they broaden their horizons, but don't criticize them if they are still establishing the ground from which they see the horizon from and choose to solidify that before seeing what else is out there. I most certainly did not (and would not) criticize my student for their choice of restaurant. I'm just lamenting how successfully corporations have brainwashed them and used that sense of belonging you speak of to manipulate and exploit. Let's not leave out of the conversation what happened to all the family restaurants purposefully targeted by these chains and run out of business either. |
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Nov 20, 2024 10:08:53 GMT -5
So absolutely keep suggesting they broaden their horizons, but don't criticize them if they are still establishing the ground from which they see the horizon from and choose to solidify that before seeing what else is out there. I most certainly did not (and would not) criticize my student for their choice of restaurant. I'm just lamenting how successfully corporations have brainwashed them and used that sense of belonging you speak of to manipulate and exploit. Let's not leave out of the conversation what happened to all the family restaurants purposefully targeted by these chains and run out of business either. True, but let's also not forget that this is not a 21st century phenomenon, it has its roots in the growth of franchises in the mid-20th century. We're in the end game of it, but it's not a contemporary problem, it's roots go back to when I was a kid as well. Then the old folks complained about those malls killing local businesses and places like Walden Books taking away from local bookshops, etc. all of which was making a poorer experience for us kids than they had. Certainly the impact of online shopping and its homogenizing effect have exacerbated the problem, but it's not a new phenomenon and it's not something our older generation didn't experience as well. As with all things, memory, nostalgia and recency bias tend to emphasize certain things over others and color our perspectives of the past, creating our own personal bias and reality tunnels, and we often forget that the negatives we compalin about in the present were just as much a factor in the halycon past our memories idealize and white wash. -M |
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Post by impulse on Nov 20, 2024 10:11:06 GMT -5
Sorry, Shax, I thought your first post was saying "These damn kids!" I now get that it was saying "This damn society!"
Also, yes, late-stage capitalism sucks.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 20, 2024 10:43:59 GMT -5
"Oh, he's taken me to Texas Roadhouse," she bragged. I mean, have you had their rolls? I still get excited when I get to go there (don't live near one anymore, sadly). But this has always been our world. Well, at least in my lifetime, this tracks. K-12 students have a much smaller array of experiences to draw from, and at least in the late 90s, awareness of major brands was more top of my mind for most of us than finding little-known secret gems (unless we were talking about music). There was pressure to fit in, have the right brands, match your friends, and it's easier to be more aware of that on a national name-brand level. I feel like exploring the old town square with historic buildings and quaint local shops and restaurants is more for those of us whose joints creak every time we stand up. I mean, geez, I remember thinking Olive Garden was a fancy dinner. Or Picadilly cafeteria because you always heard the clink and clatter of real plates and flatware. If proboards had a facepalm emoji or one for cringing in embarrassment, I'd use it here. Kids are gonna be kids, and they have to start somewhere. It's all good. This is actually an area of serious interest to me (how sad am I). It's definitely been our (American) world for the last 35-40 years. I have absolutely no nostalgia for chain fast food places. I didn't grow up with them. I never ate at a McDonalds until I was in college, because there wasn't one where I grew up until I was in very late junior high or in to high school. But we (my friends and I) never ate at it. We ate at a local burger joint that was at one of the turn-around spots for the local Friday and Saturday night cruise. We never ate at the Pizza Huts that came in about the same time. Our nostalgia is for a couple of local places. The explosion of fast food chains outside urban and suburban population areas dates to the very late 80s and the 90s. Slow casual (Olive Garden, Applebees, etc.) started to proliferate in the late 90s and early 2000s. Fast casual was about a decade behind. And there was this very dire time between about 2005 and 2015 when it took an act of God to find anything else. Things have started to turn around. And I sing hosannas for ever shuttered Chilis. Every article of "Millennials are killing fast casual dining" is like mana from heaven. The kids only know what they're taught, by their parents and by advertisers...mostly the latter. And, kids don't have particularly sophisticated palates. But good for Shax for trying to expand their horizons. As MRP points out, most people (Americans especially) are a superstitious and cowardly lot. They want the familiar rather than anything that will challenge their tastes, whether it be in food, comics, movies...pretty much anything. I don't get it personally. Life is too short to settle for the lowest common denominator. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 20, 2024 10:56:17 GMT -5
I most certainly did not (and would not) criticize my student for their choice of restaurant. I'm just lamenting how successfully corporations have brainwashed them and used that sense of belonging you speak of to manipulate and exploit. Let's not leave out of the conversation what happened to all the family restaurants purposefully targeted by these chains and run out of business either. True, but let's also not forget that this is not a 21st century phenomenon, it has its roots in the growth of franchises in the mid-20th century. We're in the end game of it, but it's not a contemporary problem, it's roots go back to when I was a kid as well. Then the old folks complained about those malls killing local businesses and places like Walden Books taking away from local bookshops, etc. And they were right. We had chains, and we had local stores, and the local stores offered more selection, got to know you as a customer, were far more helpful, and made for a more enriching shopping experience overall. I remember Walden, B Dalton, Borders, and the like, but it's the used bookstore three miles from my house that I enjoyed and miss the most. Same with restaurants. Not sure why you're trying to convince me I'm wrong in lamenting the lack of options kids think they have today. If this is a hill you really want to fight and die on, I'm confused. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 20, 2024 10:56:36 GMT -5
Sorry, Shax, I thought your first post was saying "These damn kids!" I now get that it was saying "This damn society!" Also, yes, late-stage capitalism sucks. Maybe I was unclear. Thanks! |
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 20, 2024 10:57:59 GMT -5
The first date I went on in 1997 I took the gal to Olive Garden. I don't like Olive Garden. Not because it's a chain, I'd just rather eat my mother's pasta than theirs. We then went to watch a movie. It ended up being Scream. I hate that film. I wanted to see The Relic. The compromises we men make for romance smh I think taste is subjective. We all have to eat to live. But we might as well enjoy what we eat right? As a couple we've gone from a bucket of chicken at Popeye's for our anniversary to a high end Japanese restaurant that I had to make reservations at that ended up being a bill in the hundreds. I enjoyed both meals. My first date with Barb was Chillis and the movie Over The Hedge. It took us probably a half hour, minimum, to give the waiter our order, because we were too wrapped up in each other and we never really experienced the food when we did finally eat. The movie was fine....the only thing I really remember, though, is sharing our first kiss, before it started and holding hands during. The restaurant and the film were incidental to the night. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Nov 20, 2024 11:12:05 GMT -5
Wow. How do some of you guys keep patting yourselves on the back for knowing so much more than the poor unwashed masses? the totally unnecessary condescending aside, those "poor unwashed masses" you allude to are actually the ones put out of business by these chains, the people and families with dreams of success in America who sacrificed everything and worked their butts off to make a business people would care about, only to have predatory corporations specifically target them by placing Cheesecake Factory across the street, spending money they could never match on advertising instead of providing good meals at good prices and good service that is fairly compensated. In case you're still not getting it, I'm judging the corporations; not the people they're duping. And I'd kindly appreciate it if you'd quit judging me. |
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Post by tartanphantom on Nov 20, 2024 11:13:14 GMT -5
One thing I do avoid are pretentious places that think adding a “glamorous” name to a food item (or drink) means charging a premium. For instance, some coffee chains or quirky bars think that calling a regular coffee something else means they can charge a high price for it - even though they’ve probably just used regular milk and a coffee such as Kenco. Now, a small, independent cafe might just have “coffee with milk” on the menu, and charge £3 for it, but a chain or pretentious place might put some fancy name on that same coffee and charge double the amount.
Nothing quite like loading up for cheap at a Brewer's Fayre, nothing pretentious about them! Just as long as you avoid the family rush times, when the place is loaded with nippers running about!  |
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Post by impulse on Nov 20, 2024 11:19:15 GMT -5
Wow. How do some of you guys keep patting yourselves on the back for knowing so much more than the poor unwashed masses? The pasta fazool and breadsticks at Olive Garden are great, the incredible family run little spots my wife and I discovered in Tuscany and Umbria regions of Italy were fantastic. A bag of McDonald's is still such a simple comfort food. My family used to do Sunday Champagne brunches at a nice restaurant when I was a kid and I couldn't wait for the tray of petit fours at the end. There was a wonderful family run Ethiopian restaurant near Ohio State University I used to go to any chance I could get. Love me a Charley's sub at the food court near my office. Hot dog or hot pretzel from a cart in Central park. A bag of Arby's roast beef sandwiches and those curly fries, or those crazy good Chick-Fil-A sandwiches. Peter Luger steakhouse in Brooklyn. I have a favorite Belgian chocolatier (my dad used to bring back from his travels for me), but I still love a 3 Musketeers bar or Peppermint Patty. It's all just food and none of it is "better" than the other, it's just what hits you at any given moment. And I don't care if a major corporation is behind it or some small family run business, I'm sorry, I just don't. Those major corporations provide paychecks to real working people who are my neighbors and friends just as much as the small family business folks. Hey friend, I think you might be picking up some subtext that isn't being laid down. And if anything, I think the larger sentiment is against the predatory business practices of some of these larger companies, not to denigrate the personal food preferences of average people. Speaking for myself, don't take my comment on Olive Garden as me saying it's garbage. Nothing of the sort. I can throw down some breadsticks with anyone. I was more commenting on being a teenager and thinking that was a high-end restaurant experience, which it obviously just literally is not. It's a perfectly good meal, but I would be pretty silly if I tried to compare it to my favorite high-end steakhouse I go to once every decade. Neither is wrong, just different. I don't think it's "ALL CHAINS BAD ALL THE TIME" but more being sad at the way some of these companies just push out competition and leave less overall choices out there. My two cents. If I'm at a metal show, I'm not having a fancy cocktail. I'm getting a Budweiser and a hot dog and loving every moment of it. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 20, 2024 11:26:18 GMT -5
The first date I went on in 1997 I took the gal to Olive Garden. I don't like Olive Garden. Not because it's a chain, I'd just rather eat my mother's pasta than theirs. We then went to watch a movie. It ended up being Scream. I hate that film. I wanted to see The Relic. The compromises we men make for romance smh I think taste is subjective. We all have to eat to live. But we might as well enjoy what we eat right? As a couple we've gone from a bucket of chicken at Popeye's for our anniversary to a high end Japanese restaurant that I had to make reservations at that ended up being a bill in the hundreds. I enjoyed both meals. My first date with Barb was Chillis and the movie Over The Hedge. It took us probably a half hour, minimum, to give the waiter our order, because we were too wrapped up in each other and we never really experienced the food when we did finally eat. The movie was fine....the only thing I really remember, though, is sharing our first kiss, before it started and holding hands during. The restaurant and the film were incidental to the night. Thankfully that was just the first gal I ever dated and I was trying to accommodate her. Like Charlie Brown pretty girls make me nervous back then. And she wasn't even a redhead. :-) That relationship didn't last all that long. It was more entertainment to her than seeking a partner. Since my wife and I met online, I guess you would say the first "date" we had was when we sent each other mixtapes and once we both had ours we listened to each other's while we chatted online together. The first song on her's was When You Say Nothing At All by Alison Krause and it has been a favorite song of mine ever since. And back then I had a huge aversion to country music. Since then I am more open to it to the point I am trying to plan to see Terri Clark in concert in Nashville, hopefully next year. All the rest of her concerts this year are Christmas specials and I am a grinch about Christmas music. |
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Post by impulse on Nov 20, 2024 11:27:26 GMT -5
I know both what I said and what I meant. Speaking for myself only, I thought I was pretty clear. Sorry you feel otherwise.
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