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Post by the4thpip on Sept 12, 2014 8:58:37 GMT -5
Could another 9/11 happen? People working in law enforcement think its inevitable, and that it will take another 9/11 for the public to wake up. So far the west's response to the growing threat of ISIS has been timid. But as we saw saw with the Coalition forces when they invaded Iraq, you get rid of one threat and multiple other threats pop up in the vacuum. So in many ways, its a never-ending battle. Bad things will always happen, sadly. But something exactly like or even closely resembling 9-11 won't happen again. It changed the mechanics of airplane hijacking forever: People now expect to die if the hijackers get their way, so they will do anything to stop them.
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Post by Rob Allen on Sept 12, 2014 12:20:14 GMT -5
I finished the Alter Ego article today Congratulations! Let's celebrate - a round of antibiotics for everyone!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 13:36:12 GMT -5
Of course, no one in his right mind lives north of the Mason-Dixon line. Up here we call it the Manson-Dixon Line to remind us of why we don't live below it. Frankly, you sound better suited to the kind of supercilious, cranky-ass attitude that we revere ourselves for up here. You may well have been separated at birth from your Yankee family, Dan. My mother's father was from Haddonfield, N.J., across the river from Philadelphia; I guess that's as close as I come. He died about 6 years before I was born, about 25 years after he & my grandmother (who died about 9 years before he did) got divorced when my mom was only 2*, so it's not like he had any impact on my life (& probably not on a whole lot on hers, except by omission) whatsoever. *Who on earth could've forseen a Jew from Philadelphia not being the perfect mate for a Southern Baptist from southwest Arkansas/east Oklahoma? I'm sure you could've knocked everyone involved over with a feather.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 12, 2014 13:54:21 GMT -5
Dan having lived on both sides of the line I can really appreciate that statement. Though I was raised a Yankee Jehovahs Witness the fact that my wife is strongly spiritual and not strongly religious may be why we're about to celebrate 15 years next month.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 15:28:19 GMT -5
Yeah. I can't even imagine ...
My first wife was raised nominally Catholic but didn't pay much attention to any of that stuff, though I know from FB that she's somewhat active in ... some church these days. Baptist or Methodist or Episcopalian. Couldn't really be anything else as the city manager of Hope, Ark., god knows (no pun intended). Don't know if that predated her bout with breast cancer back in the early '90s, about 6 years after we split, or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if the "no atheists in foxholes" factor proved instrumental, which would certainly be understandable
My second wife was a nominal (or at least had been raised) Episcopalian, & our first year together, a few months before we got married, I allowed myself to be dragged to a Christmas Eve mass, mostly out of morbid curiosity & entirely at the instigation of my older future stepdaughter. It all seemed very Catholic to me, based on my very limited impression of that church (I'd been to one mass in my life in Hope, when my mother & I accompanied a friend of hers who was probably the only Catholic in our hometown). I have no idea what makes those people Protestants, really, though I guess lack of allegiance to Rome or whatever is the key there. The ritual & silly (to me) costumes & such all seemed to be in place.
The now-former stepdaughter appears from FB to have stayed in, or at least returned to, the Episcopalian fold. Her mother has gone all new-agey & is heavily into remote viewing & such, & traveled down to Machu Picchu<sp?> for ... something ... related to some eclipse or something awhile back.
I feel vaguely guilty about that; maybe all the books on UFOs & the paranormal, etc., that I've always loved poisoned her mind just a bit.
Both of my weddings were conducted by Methodist ministers. That's just the way things shook out.
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Post by Prince Hal on Sept 12, 2014 18:30:49 GMT -5
Dan, I love this last post of yours.
I know that it's always dangerous (they say) to get into religion and politics, and though I love a good argument and will be happy to explain why I feel the way I do about religion and America, I'll keep quiet until "Meanwhile" is deemed okay for that kind of discussion.
However, your take on all these flavors of Christianity warmed my heart. Episcopalians seem to be all about their personal consciences and think the RC's are immature, but they dig all the pageantry, don't they?
I'll refrain from any further comment. 17 years of Catholic education made me a staunch anti-religionist. There aren't too many problems in this world that a lot less religion wouldn't solve.
And now, back to Brother Power, the Geek #3...
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 12, 2014 18:52:05 GMT -5
Hal this (and our corner of CBR then) are the only places I can talk either subject when it's on my mind because of the people here. I know I say it a lot but it's true, this corner of the internet remains untainted by the conventional entitlement attitude that annonimity provides. Dan along DE Sinclair (and others too of course) have been some of the most satisfying people to discuss these subjects with. DE and I share very different views of religion yet both understand and respect each other's stance and opinions. People like DE make me hope my atheist and nihilistic views are wrong because hope and faith are a special thing when you can grasp them are truly believe them.
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Post by Rob Allen on Sept 12, 2014 18:52:41 GMT -5
Adam, one of my few comics-reading friends in middle/high school was a Witness. He told me a bit about the religion but most of our conversations were about comics. Most of my other friends were Jewish, and now I'm married to a woman who grew up Jewish.
Dan, it sounds like the mass you went to was in the "High Episcopal" or "Anglo-Catholic" tradition. You might find the "Low Episcopal" variety to be more familiar to other Protestants.
My father went to Episcopal churches in his youth, and my mother to Methodist ones. They took us to Methodist churches when I was a kid and I even went to a Methodist-affiliated college but never felt like I belonged there. Although I obviously get along well with Jews, I never had the urge to be Jewish either.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 12, 2014 19:06:45 GMT -5
Adam, one of my few comics-reading friends in middle/high school was a Witness. He told me a bit about the religion but most of our conversations were about comics. Most of my other friends were Jewish, and now I'm married to a woman who grew up Jewish.. Thats probably not a coincidence Rob. The witness' view on extra curricular reading material is very strict and slanted (and least when I was young) to deter people from reading other things. So since my father was into baseball card as oppose to comics as a kid my folks embraced the almost Wherthman attitude towards comics. Even at 17 (I think I was) when I had my own money and started buying comics, I was a year into collecting until my mother found my stash. And only then showing her the stuff I had bought (both current at that time and classic stuff) did she realize they were all "evil". It's also why I waited till I was on my own to buy Lady Death and other bad girl comics (even classics like Satana, Lilith). Those would have just reinforced my mothers misconception on the medium as a whole.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 19:18:58 GMT -5
Sounds about right, Rob. My impression was that the Episcopal church in question was the one for Little Rock's toney crowd of that persuasion.
Growing up, I tended to confuse Episcopalians with Presbyterians (to the extent that I ever thought about them, which wasn't very often), but I think that's only because both names have so many syllables. Neither had any sort of local presence back then. My great-uncle (who died before I was born; no blood kin to me) was one or the other (the former, I'm pretty sure) while my great-aunt was of course Southern Baptist, like the rest (AFAIK) of her family & mine.
I gather from FB that the little Episcopalian church he must've attended in my hometown now has a congregation again, though as indicated above it was never used when I was a kid. Must've been "Low Episcopal," considering the setting.
Man, there goes the neighborhood. (It's about 2 blocks from where our house used to stand & is directly behind the little league field where I played baseball.)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 19:24:42 GMT -5
Hal this (and our corner of CBR then) are the only places I can talk either subject when it's on my mind because of the people here. I know I say it a lot but it's true, this corner of the internet remains untainted by the conventional entitlement attitude that annonimity provides. Dan along DE Sinclair (and others too of course) have been some of the most satisfying people to discuss these subjects with. DE and I share very different views of religion yet both understand and respect each other's stance and opinions. People like DE make me hope my atheist and nihilistic views are wrong because hope and faith are a special thing when you can grasp them are truly believe them. Funny. Just this morning, for some reason, I was summing myself up as a nihilist. That's probably a bit simplistic, but it's also probably closer to accurate than anything else. I suppose anarcho-nihilist is a bit redundant, or at least rather meaningless. When I'm in a good mood (that is, for a few minutes at least once a week ... if things are going better than usual, anyway), I do try to be nice about other people's delusions. After all, they're often nice about mine.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 12, 2014 19:36:39 GMT -5
Hal this (and our corner of CBR then) are the only places I can talk either subject when it's on my mind because of the people here. I know I say it a lot but it's true, this corner of the internet remains untainted by the conventional entitlement attitude that annonimity provides. Dan along DE Sinclair (and others too of course) have been some of the most satisfying people to discuss these subjects with. DE and I share very different views of religion yet both understand and respect each other's stance and opinions. People like DE make me hope my atheist and nihilistic views are wrong because hope and faith are a special thing when you can grasp them are truly believe them. Funny. Just this morning, for some reason, I was summing myself up as a nihilist. That's probably a bit simplistic, but it's also probably closer to accurate than anything else. I suppose anarcho-nihilist is a bit redundant, or at least rather meaningless. When I'm in a good mood (that is, for a few minutes at least once a week ... if things are going better than usual, anyway), I do try to be nice about other people's delusions. After all, they're often nice about mine. Well I really don't believe in anything much as I take nihilism to be. Blame it on realizing one religion growing believing is the only right one, isn't. Blame it on reading too much Nietzsche. Blame on wanting to be pessimistic about everything just so your not disappointed by reality. Either way it's the best way I can describe myself. As far as being atheist that's probably not a good description. It's more agnostic. I can't be bothered with living my life by someone else's standards. If I'm wrong that there isn't a god I'll deal with it when the time comes.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 19:49:21 GMT -5
My go-to line, which I know I used at least a couple of times on the old CBR, is that I'm an atheist on good days & an agnostic on bad ones ... or maybe vice versa.
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Post by Rob Allen on Sept 12, 2014 20:22:51 GMT -5
The way those words are used by specialists in the field, 'atheist' and 'agnostic' are not mutually exclusive; in fact, most atheists are agnostic.
The way they break it down, "gnosis" is about knowledge, and "theism" is about belief in a god or gods. Someone who is "agnostic" does not think he has absolute knowledge or certainty. The most common combinations are:
Gnostic Theist: believes he has certain knowledge that a god or gods exist, and of course believes in him/her/it/them. Agnostic Atheist: does not believe that he has certain knowledge, but currently does not see enough evidence to believe in a god or gods.
The other combinations are rarer:
Gnostic Atheist: is absolutely certain that no gods could possibly exist. Agnostic Theist: does not believe that he has certain knowledge, but does see enough evidence to believe in a god or gods.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 20:46:11 GMT -5
I was raised a Catholic, survived Catholic high school and a Jesuit university. My go to line is "I used to be a practicing Catholic, then I perfected it and don't need to practice any more!"
My aunt converted to Episcopalian after her first marriage failed and she wanted to remarry, but couldn't get Church approval or an annulment of the first marriage, so wouldn't have been allowed to partake in the sacraments if she remarried, and thus left the Church. Episcopalian was the closest she could be to being a Catholic without actually still being Catholic, and yes, a lot of the differences between the two came down to matters of allegiance to Rome and recognizing the authority of the Bishop of Rome as the Pope and leader of the Church. Not all, but it is one of the major differences.
-M
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