Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 11, 2018 11:37:15 GMT -5
I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up already; Stan Lee accused of groping and making sex demands to nurses! Two days ago a story appeared in the UK's Daily Mail reporting that Stan Lee has been hit with several allegations of sexual assault and harassment by nurses caring for him at his Hollywood Hills. Among the juicy details, Lee is alleged to have "repeatedly groped and harassed a string of young female nurses employed to care for him. He is said to have asked for oral sex in the shower, walked around naked and wanted to be 'pleasured' in the bedroom." Now, bear in mind that the Daily Mail has a reputation for sensationalism and wildly inaccurate stories, so a pinch of salt should definitely be taken with these allegations. Still, could there possibly be any truth in it?  Full news report here... www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5250513/Marvel-creator-Stan-Lee-95-accused-groping-nurses.html |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 11, 2018 12:41:25 GMT -5
I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up already; Stan Lee accused of groping and making sex demands to nurses! Two days ago a story appeared in the UK's Daily Mail reporting that Stan Lee has been hit with several allegations of sexual assault and harassment by nurses caring for him at his Hollywood Hills. Among the jiucy details, Lee is alleged to have "repeatedly groped and harassed a string of young female nurses employed to care for him. He is said to have asked for oral sex in the shower, walked around naked and wanted to be 'pleasured' in the bedroom." Now, bear in mind that the Daily Mail has a reputation for sensationalism and wildly inaccurate stories, so a pinch of salt should definitely be taken with these allegations. Still, could there possibly be any truth in it? Full news report here... www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5250513/Marvel-creator-Stan-Lee-95-accused-groping-nurses.htmlI haven't seen any wire service pieces about that here, which suggests the stories haven't been substantiated. That wouldn't be anything new for the Daily Mail. There have been stories about Lee being abusive to an assistant, in recent years; berating him, cursing at him, etc..., as well as some less than flattering descriptions about him and convention appearances (diva behavior, essentially). Now, given Stan's age, I am left to wonder if at least those allegations may be an indication of possible dementia. Abusive behavior is a common manifestation. The nurse allegations need more corroboration; but, I could see that as a similar sign of some form of dementia. In all my reading of accounts of Stan Lee, ego is a big element; but, abusive and harassing behavior is not. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 11, 2018 13:04:21 GMT -5
I haven't seen any wire service pieces about that here, which suggests the stories haven't been substantiated. That wouldn't be anything new for the Daily Mail. I quite agree. There have been stories about Lee being abusive to an assistant, in recent years; berating him, cursing at him, etc..., as well as some less than flattering descriptions about him and convention appearances (diva behavior, essentially). Now, given Stan's age, I am left to wonder if at least those allegations may be an indication of possible dementia. It could even be a simpler explanation than that: that old people are often just really rude and cantankerous. I used to date a nurse for a little over two years and she always said that by far the most obnoxious and rude age group among her patients were the over 60s group. She always reckoned that, by the time people get into their 60s and beyond, they're tired with putting up with the world's nonsense and will just come out and say rude, angry stuff for no reason other than they can't be bothered to hide it and "play nice" any more. Of course, dementia will certainly play a part in some of those cases, but often times not. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 11, 2018 13:17:08 GMT -5
I haven't seen any wire service pieces about that here, which suggests the stories haven't been substantiated. That wouldn't be anything new for the Daily Mail. I quite agree. There have been stories about Lee being abusive to an assistant, in recent years; berating him, cursing at him, etc..., as well as some less than flattering descriptions about him and convention appearances (diva behavior, essentially). Now, given Stan's age, I am left to wonder if at least those allegations may be an indication of possible dementia. It could even be a simpler explanation than that: that old people are often just really rude and cantankerous. I used to date a nurse for a little over two years and she always said that by far the most obnoxious and rude age group among her patients were the over 60s group. She always reckoned that, by the time people get into their 60s and beyond, they're tired with putting up with the world's nonsense and will just come out and say rude, angry stuff for no reason other than they can't be bothered to hide it and "play nice" any more. Of course, dementia will certainly play a part in some of those cases, but often times not. There's a reason that the word cantankerous goes hand in hand with old people. I think there's a major sense of entitlement there also. Old people seem to think they need to be respected and seen as wise for the simple fact that they had the fortune to get old. I say this as someone who just turned 50 and is perilously close to getting to the age of cantankerousness. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 11, 2018 13:25:08 GMT -5
I quite agree. It could even be a simpler explanation than that: that old people are often just really rude and cantankerous. I used to date a nurse for a little over two years and she always said that by far the most obnoxious and rude age group among her patients were the over 60s group. She always reckoned that, by the time people get into their 60s and beyond, they're tired with putting up with the world's nonsense and will just come out and say rude, angry stuff for no reason other than they can't be bothered to hide it and "play nice" any more. Of course, dementia will certainly play a part in some of those cases, but often times not. There's a reason that the word cantankerous goes hand in hand with old people. I think there's a major sense of entitlement there also. Old people seem to think they need to be respected and seen as wise for the simple fact that they had the fortune to get old. I say this as someone who just turned 50 and is perilously close to getting to the age of cantankerousness. I went for cantankerous in my 30s; it saved time. I hit curmudgeon in my 40s and am working on evil bastard in my 50s. I hope to be like Mr Potter, in It's A Wonderful Life, by the time I hit my 60s. Then I can do oatmeal commercials, like Wilford Brimley. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jan 11, 2018 13:42:07 GMT -5
I quite agree. It could even be a simpler explanation than that: that old people are often just really rude and cantankerous. I used to date a nurse for a little over two years and she always said that by far the most obnoxious and rude age group among her patients were the over 60s group. She always reckoned that, by the time people get into their 60s and beyond, they're tired with putting up with the world's nonsense and will just come out and say rude, angry stuff for no reason other than they can't be bothered to hide it and "play nice" any more. Of course, dementia will certainly play a part in some of those cases, but often times not. There's a reason that the word cantankerous goes hand in hand with old people. I think there's a major sense of entitlement there also. Old people seem to think they need to be respected and seen as wise for the simple fact that they had the fortune to get old. I say this as someone who just turned 50 and is perilously close to getting to the age of cantankerousness. Remember also that empathy (both cognitive and affective, though some rsearchers don't see as clear a difference) and foresight, the last capacities of the intellect to develop fully -- often not until one's late adolescence or early 20s -- are also the first to go in advanced age. Thus, the self-absorption, the inability to see another's point of view or to seem at all concerned with the needs of others we often see in adolescents and the elderly. Ask a a teenager or your older parent how either could engage in a risky behavior that are potentially life-threatening (driving recklessely; cruising to the bathroom without the walker) and you're likely to get the same answer: "I don't know?" Ask "Did you once consider how I would feel if you had been injured, or worse? Both your teenager and your parent are likely to say, "No, I didn't think about that." Nether your kid nor your parent is necessarily trying to be obstinate. They are what they are to paraphrase Bill Parcells. It's like complaining that your Neapolitan mastiff drools. Yep... he does. There's not much you can do for the older person; their capacity to feel for others or to predict possible outcomes will continue to diminish. With teenagers, instruction and patience will help. Dealing wiht these problems at the far ends of the spectrum is frustrating, though at lest there is hope that most teenagers will develop those capacities at some point. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 11, 2018 13:45:18 GMT -5
There's a reason that the word cantankerous goes hand in hand with old people. I think there's a major sense of entitlement there also. Old people seem to think they need to be respected and seen as wise for the simple fact that they had the fortune to get old. I say this as someone who just turned 50 and is perilously close to getting to the age of cantankerousness. Remember also that empathy (both cognitive and affective, though some rsearchers don't see as clear a difference) and foresight, the last capacities of the intellect to develop fully -- often not until one's late adolescence or early 20s -- are also the first to go in advanced age. Thus, the self-absorption, the inability to see another's point of view or to seem at all concerned with the needs of others we often see in adolescents and the elderly. Ask a a teenager or your older parent how either could engage in a risky behavior that are potentially life-threatening (driving recklessely; cruising to the bathroom without the walker) and you're likely to get the same answer: "I don't know?" Ask "Did you once consider how I would feel if you had been injured, or worse? Both your teenager and your parent are likely to say, "No, I didn't think about that." Nether your kid nor your parent is necessarily trying to be obstinate. They are what they are to paraphrase Bill Parcells. It's like complaining that your Neapolitan mastiff drools. Yep... he does. There's not much you can do for the older person; their capacity to feel for others or to predict possible outcomes will continue to diminish. With teenagers, instruction and patience will help. Dealing wiht these problems at the far ends of the spectrum is frustrating, though at lest there is hope that most teenagers will develop those capacities at some point. Hmmm...maybe we should not be electing leaders in their 70s and 80s. Just sayin'. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 17:01:07 GMT -5
There's further allegations against Stan stemming from an incident with a massage therapist last year at C2E2 and this one may result in charges being filed...of course it is the Daily Mail and its comic equivalent Bleeding Cool reporting, but I will say BC was one of the first willing to report the Berganza allegations when other comic sites were too paranoid about losing access and stories from DC to do so, so in this area of reporting they have stood above their typical reputation. Stan had denied all allegations through his attorney. -M |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2018 2:11:11 GMT -5
More allegations against Stan Lee surface, and the NHL team in Arizona (the Coyotes) cancelled an appearance by Lee this week seemingly because of these allegations. -M
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 13, 2018 8:04:06 GMT -5
Hmmmm...it's starting to not look so good for Stan "The Man". That most recent article in the post above, in particular, has the ring of truth to it IMHO. Not least because other's have corroborated her story or noted that she complained about it privately to them six months ago, before any of these allegations surfaced.
God, I so want this to not be true.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 13, 2018 10:00:37 GMT -5
I still maintain that not all of these accusations are charge worth. Sometimes what is being reported is just bad behavior and not a situation meriting criminal charges.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 13, 2018 10:38:20 GMT -5
I still maintain that not all of these accusations are charge worth. Sometimes what is being reported is just bad behavior and not a situation meriting criminal charges. While the thing about Stan pulling the woman onto his lap and kissing him is definitely sexual harassment, this is a question that some of the reported cases have made me contemplate. Where's the line between being too forward with flirting, misreading social cues, being misogynistic and actual sexual harassment or assault? Some of what's coming out, and especially the public reactions to them, seem to conflate them all and at least to me there are definitely serious differences there. This isn't to say that I don't think the #Metoo movement isn't a refreshing direction for empowerment but just that like anything I think evaluation is needed. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 13, 2018 10:54:36 GMT -5
The media is lumping al acts by men together and that's wrong. In my life, I have usually been the aggressor in romantic relationships and have been rejected a few times also. Does that Mean I harassed the ones who said No ? Sometimes there are acts that are bad behavior that doesn't rise to criminality.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 13, 2018 11:58:35 GMT -5
The common law definition of a battery is "a physical act that results in harmful or offensive contact with another's person without that person's consent." So essentially any unwanted touching. It's both a crime and a tort.
This isn't something that has come up in recent memory. This is derived from a thousand years of English common law.
What it boils down too is...keep your damn hands to yourself.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 14, 2018 10:48:58 GMT -5
The common law definition of a battery is "a physical act that results in harmful or offensive contact with another's person without that person's consent." So essentially any unwanted touching. It's both a crime and a tort. This isn't something that has come up in recent memory. This is derived from a thousand years of English common law. What it boils down too is...keep your damn hands to yourself. That is sound advice. On the othe hand (no pun intended)... “Offensive contact” strikes me as a pretty vague and elastic term. Does eye contact count? Can a KKK member claim to be offended because a Haitian tapped his shoulder to ask something? Can a Brahmin claim to be harmed because the shadow of a Dalit touched his food? What about a hardcore salafist who is forced to come in contact with a woman on the subway? Doesn’t intent come into play at any time in there? Mustn’t we prove the intention to cause harm? Unless we establish objective criteria to what constitutes “offensive contact”, I see us as opening a Pandora’s box full of increasingly sensitive claims to actionable offense. As a citizen, I don’t like that one bit. What does society have to gain from it? (I can also see how an increasingly sensitive interpretation of such laws will push a large part of voters with centrist views to the right, and help keep people like Trump in power for a long, long time). Our own Crying Prime Minister had to offer apologies for accidentally hitting someone with his elbow while pulling at someone else’s sleeve. No joke, that was seen by the oppositon as “violence against women”. Just to show that the future dystopia may be inspired by Kafka as much as by Orwell. As for Stan Lee, I’m all for the truth to come out and for people in a position of power to be held accountable for their acts. I just have a hard time believing that a 90+ years old man can force anyone to sit on his lap and start kissing them. Acting and talking like a lecherous old relic, yeah, that I can believe. The answer to which is “Mr. Lee, that’s no way to talk and to behave. You owe me an apology”. Not “I’ll sue!” |
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