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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 2, 2022 18:52:19 GMT -5
Now I feel like I need to get The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien.
I've added it to my list of books I'm interested in, but that doesn't mean I'm absolutely certain to read it one of these days. Tempting, though. I've picked up a few different volumes of letters and memoirs of various writers over the years but haven't done much reading in that vein for quite some time, with the odd exception here and there.
Have you read the exchange between Lovecraft and Howard? It's a fascinating foray into the two men's character and ideas, but boy! Do they look bad if judged by modern eyes! Howard was probably just a run-of-the-mill racist, but Lovecraft really cranked it to 11. I'm sure ne would have judged me as a degenerate inbred gallic abomination! Hell of a writer, though. |
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Post by Calidore on Oct 2, 2022 19:26:45 GMT -5
Lovecraft was an interesting guy. He apparently left a huge volume of letters, because in addition to his regular correspondences, he felt obligated to answer pretty much everything sent to him. He was notably diligent about helping young writers who were trying to break in, offering encouragement and critiques.
As one article about him that I read put it, he was misanthropic and intolerant of people as a whole, but unfailingly kind and generous to individuals.
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Post by berkley on Oct 2, 2022 19:54:51 GMT -5
I've added it to my list of books I'm interested in, but that doesn't mean I'm absolutely certain to read it one of these days. Tempting, though. I've picked up a few different volumes of letters and memoirs of various writers over the years but haven't done much reading in that vein for quite some time, with the odd exception here and there.
Have you read the exchange between Lovecraft and Howard? It's a fascinating foray into the two men's character and ideas, but boy! Do they look bad if judged by modern eyes! Howard was probably just a run-of-the-mill racist, but Lovecraft really cranked it to 11. I'm sure ne would have judged me as a degenerate inbred gallic abomination! Hell of a writer, though.
No, haven't read those. Both of us would probably be "worms of the earth" in Howard's and Lovecraft's twisted worldview.
It would be funny if there were other letters, written to different correspondants, in which Lovecraft deplores Texan barbarism or Howard rants about effete east coast elitists.
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Post by DE Sinclair on Oct 2, 2022 22:03:04 GMT -5
Even if I had the money to spare, I could hardly justify buying this (as I already have two copies of the book...) but gosh darn it, those publishers must have learned temptation from the devil himself!!! That book looks lovely. That is a pretty nice looking edition, I thought the copy I got last Christmas from my wife was swanky but that's crazy. And I have my eyes on this collection of the Lord of the Rings that matches Those are really nice looking editions. I just re-read my copy to brush up for the "Rings of Power" series, which is sadly a bit worn. But those new editions prompted me to look at bit closer at it, and it's the 1st US edition from 1977. The dust jacket on mine is a bit more worn than this copy, but it shows what it looks like: Silmarillion |
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Post by berkley on Oct 3, 2022 2:00:41 GMT -5
That is a pretty nice looking edition, I thought the copy I got last Christmas from my wife was swanky but that's crazy. And I have my eyes on this collection of the Lord of the Rings that matches Those are really nice looking editions. I just re-read my copy to brush up for the "Rings of Power" series, which is sadly a bit worn. But those new editions prompted me to look at bit closer at it, and it's the 1st US edition from 1977. The dust jacket on mine is a bit more worn than this copy, but it shows what it looks like: Silmarillion
I like that cover very much. Is that a Tolkien illustration on the front? If it isn't, it captures the spirit of his Middle-Earth more than most other artists have done.
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Post by DE Sinclair on Oct 3, 2022 8:08:56 GMT -5
Those are really nice looking editions. I just re-read my copy to brush up for the "Rings of Power" series, which is sadly a bit worn. But those new editions prompted me to look at bit closer at it, and it's the 1st US edition from 1977. The dust jacket on mine is a bit more worn than this copy, but it shows what it looks like: Silmarillion
I like that cover very much. Is that a Tolkien illustration on the front? If it isn't, it captures the spirit of his Middle-Earth more than most other artists have done.
According to the dust jacket, the cover illustration was indeed done by Mr. Tolkien. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2022 21:33:38 GMT -5
I just finished the finale of the first season of Rings of Power. I quite liked it. It hit me with all the Tolkien feels, got me invested in the story and characters and felt enough genuine Tolkien to satisfy me. It's not perfect. There are plenty of nits to pick if that's your things for sure, but it was an entertaining show that stayed true to the spirit of Tolkien I've felt since I was in junior high and first cracked open a copy of the Hobbit for the first time. It gave me that sense of wonder and wanting to find out more that I felt then and now. The devil may be in the details, but nothing but the devil's work will be accomplished by focusing on what details may or may not be right and the heart and soul, the essence of the show which evokes what I want out of a Tolkien experience, will be missed by those lost in those reeds.
-M
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Post by berkley on Oct 14, 2022 23:18:13 GMT -5
I just finished the finale of the first season of Rings of Power. I quite liked it. It hit me with all the Tolkien feels, got me invested in the story and characters and felt enough genuine Tolkien to satisfy me. It's not perfect. There are plenty of nits to pick if that's your things for sure, but it was an entertaining show that stayed true to the spirit of Tolkien I've felt since I was in junior high and first cracked open a copy of the Hobbit for the first time. It gave me that sense of wonder and wanting to find out more that I felt then and now. The devil may be in the details, but nothing but the devil's work will be accomplished by focusing on what details may or may not be right and the heart and soul, the essence of the show which evokes what I want out of a Tolkien experience, will be missed by those lost in those reeds. -M
I haven't completely ruled out giving it a look someday but it'll probably be quite a long ways down the road. The way I feel right now, just from the few things I've read or stills and clips I've seen online, it doesn't appeal to me - and in fact that feeling has been growing stronger as time passes on. Not for any specific reason I can point to, just a general negative feeling about the whole thing.
I'm sure it's finding lots of sympathetic viewers who feel, as you do, that it captures the spirit of Tolkien's work for them and I don't deny the validity of their reaction - for them. But every reader has their own individual relationship with Tolkien's creation so I don't think there's any need to assume that anyone who isn't interested is just nit-picking or focusing on relatively unimportant details. But probably you're referring to fan-criticisms that I know nothing about, not having followed the chatter or fan-reaction to the show in general.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2022 23:26:21 GMT -5
I just finished the finale of the first season of Rings of Power. I quite liked it. It hit me with all the Tolkien feels, got me invested in the story and characters and felt enough genuine Tolkien to satisfy me. It's not perfect. There are plenty of nits to pick if that's your things for sure, but it was an entertaining show that stayed true to the spirit of Tolkien I've felt since I was in junior high and first cracked open a copy of the Hobbit for the first time. It gave me that sense of wonder and wanting to find out more that I felt then and now. The devil may be in the details, but nothing but the devil's work will be accomplished by focusing on what details may or may not be right and the heart and soul, the essence of the show which evokes what I want out of a Tolkien experience, will be missed by those lost in those reeds. -M I haven't completely ruled out giving it a look someday but it'll probably be quite a long ways down the road. The way I feel right now, just from the few things I've read or stills and clips I've seen online, it doesn't appeal to me - and in fact that feeling has been growing stronger as time passes on. Not for any specific reason I can point to, just a general negative feeling about the whole thing.
I'm sure it's finding lots of sympathetic viewers who feel, as you do, that it captures the spirit of Tolkien's work for them and I don't deny the validity of their reaction - for them. But every reader has their own individual relationship with Tolkien's creation so I don't think there's any need to assume that anyone who isn't interested is just nit-picking or focusing on relatively unimportant details. But probably you're referring to fan-criticisms that I know nothing about, not having followed the chatter or fan-reaction to the show in general.
I feel a series can capture every detail and get everything right except the spirit or essence of the work and be a total failure. I've seen a lot of adaptations do this. They get mired in the details and forget what is important. I see a lot of fandoms do this too. If the spirit/essence isn't captured, nothing else matters. This gets the spirit for me, so the details become secondary. Not non-important, but secondary, because getting them right does nothing to ensure the success of the execution of the adaptation. -M |
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Post by berkley on Oct 15, 2022 6:30:24 GMT -5
I haven't completely ruled out giving it a look someday but it'll probably be quite a long ways down the road. The way I feel right now, just from the few things I've read or stills and clips I've seen online, it doesn't appeal to me - and in fact that feeling has been growing stronger as time passes on. Not for any specific reason I can point to, just a general negative feeling about the whole thing.
I'm sure it's finding lots of sympathetic viewers who feel, as you do, that it captures the spirit of Tolkien's work for them and I don't deny the validity of their reaction - for them. But every reader has their own individual relationship with Tolkien's creation so I don't think there's any need to assume that anyone who isn't interested is just nit-picking or focusing on relatively unimportant details. But probably you're referring to fan-criticisms that I know nothing about, not having followed the chatter or fan-reaction to the show in general.
I feel a series can capture every detail and get everything right except the spirit or essence of the work and be a total failure. I've seen a lot of adaptations do this. They get mired in the details and forget what is important. I see a lot of fandoms do this too. If the spirit/essence isn't captured, nothing else matters. This gets the spirit for me, so the details become secondary. Not non-important, but secondary, because getting them right does nothing to ensure the success of the execution of the adaptation. -M
Certainly that's possible. I remember finding one of the »Dune tv minseries a bit like that - not that I thought they got all the details right but you could see they tried more than the Lynch movie version did. But the spirit was missing - at least for me, maybe some viewers liked it.
I know RR and some other members here think the John Carter movie captured the spirit of the ERB books as they saw it while I found it a complete misfire in nearly every possible way. So I respect everyone's individual reaction but it doesn't mean I'm going to feel the same way. It doesn't mean that I think they're "wrong" to disagree with me, just that I don't share the same reaction.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Oct 15, 2022 17:49:11 GMT -5
I just finished the finale of the first season of Rings of Power. I quite liked it. It hit me with all the Tolkien feels, got me invested in the story and characters and felt enough genuine Tolkien to satisfy me. It's not perfect. There are plenty of nits to pick if that's your things for sure, but it was an entertaining show that stayed true to the spirit of Tolkien I've felt since I was in junior high and first cracked open a copy of the Hobbit for the first time. It gave me that sense of wonder and wanting to find out more that I felt then and now. The devil may be in the details, but nothing but the devil's work will be accomplished by focusing on what details may or may not be right and the heart and soul, the essence of the show which evokes what I want out of a Tolkien experience, will be missed by those lost in those reeds. -M I found it to be a pretty enjoyable watch as well, the pacing was a little choppy and slow at parts but over all it was a pretty good show. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 15, 2022 18:39:48 GMT -5
I’ve only watched the first episode and a half. Mostly I found them pretty boring. I’ll probably finish the second episode tomorrow and likely get to the third. But it’s not doing anything for me yet.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Oct 16, 2022 11:52:16 GMT -5
I have to say, I really have very little interest in Rings of Power. I mean, I don't have an Amazon Prime subscription on my TV anyway, but I certainly wouldn't get one just to watch this.
From what I've seen online, it looks visually impressive, but I think part of my disinterest is due to the stories not actually being by Tolkien, with only the broadest backdrop details being the Professor's. Myself, I'm a fan of Tolkien's works themselves, and honestly, I can't even really say that I'm particularly a fan of fantasy as a genre, outside of Tolkien's stuff and having played D&D as a kid.
I like Tolkien's way of writing, his character development, his dialogue, and that's why I can still enjoy adaptations of LOTRs such as the Ralph Bakshi cartoon, the BBC radio dramatisation, and the Peter Jackson trilogy, because they all follow the plot and dialogue of the books fairly closely. It's also, incidentally, why I disliked the Hobbit trilogy so much: too much Hollywood screenwriter crap shoehorned into Tolkien's existing work for me.
The existence of The Rings of Power just leaves me feeling "meh" because it is, except for some of the characters and the general Middle-Earth setting, entirely "Hollywood screenwriter crap". I'm not saying its poorly written, mind you, because after all I've not watched it; I'm just saying that it isn't an adaptation of something written by Tolkien, so that diminishes my enthusiasm for it. I just can't muster any excitement over it at all, I'm afraid.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 16, 2022 18:33:39 GMT -5
I have to say, I really have very little interest in Rings of Power. I mean, I don't have an Amazon Prime subscription on my TV anyway, but I certainly wouldn't get one just to watch this. From what I've seen online, it looks visually impressive, but I think part of my disinterest is due to the stories not actually being by Tolkien, with only the broadest backdrop details being the Professor's. Myself, I'm a fan of Tolkien's works themselves, and honestly, I can't even really say that I'm particularly a fan of fantasy as a genre, outside of Tolkien's stuff and having played D&D as a kid. I like Tolkien's way of writing, his character development, his dialogue, and that's why I can still enjoy adaptations of LOTRs such as the Ralph Bakshi cartoon, the BBC radio dramatisation, and the Peter Jackson trilogy, because they all follow the plot and dialogue of the books fairly closely. It's also, incidentally, why I disliked the Hobbit trilogy so much: too much Hollywood screenwriter crap shoehorned into Tolkien's existing work for me. Same here. I see the Tolkien universe as I see Homer's Iliad and Odyssey; I care nothing for things like Troy: Fall of a City. I do love Tolkien's work, including things like the Book of Lost Tales and its early versions of the Silmarillion; but Tolkien fanfic I can do without. I know it's not fair to pre-judge any creative work, but what I've seen from The Rings of Power in promo material suggests that it's a kind of generic fantasy series that uses Tolkien's concepts. Galadriel as a warrior woman who wants to avenge her brother? I've no idea if that's really in the series, but the Tolkien fan in me knows that Galadriel was never a warrior, and that all her brothers died thousands of years prior to this series. Notwithstanding the skill of the writers, that tells me that their goal is not to present Tolkien's work, but to use his ideas to showcase their own. If that's the case, the series might be Beastmaster or The Belgariad or The Sword of Shanarra... I might take a look at it someday, but the Tolkien connection won't do much to draw me in if Tolkien's work isn't the focus of the thing. On the upside, that leaves more time to re-read The Silmarillion.  Honest Injun: give it a try with Foster's Guide to Middle-Earth near at hand. The Silmarillion is an amazing epic if you can check who the heck Maglor is and how he's related to Finrod! (I never could remember at first). |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Oct 17, 2022 3:14:55 GMT -5
On the upside, that leaves more time to re-read The Silmarillion. Honest Injun: give it a try with Foster's Guide to Middle-Earth near at hand. The Silmarillion is an amazing epic if you can check who heck Maglor is and how he's related to Finrod! (I never could remember at first). Ha! I will definitely read it one of these fine days. I have Foster's guide, the Atlas of Middle-earth, and The Silmarillion in its entirety on audio book (read by Martin Shaw) to help me get through it and actually absorb it. In the past, I've just found it utterly impenetrable. I did read on Reddit someone suggesting reading some of the more accessible chapters first, such as "Beren and Lúthien" or "The Coming of Men into the West", as a gateway into the book in its entirety. What would your opinion of that idea be? |
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