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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 15, 2018 14:14:53 GMT -5
Yes, the X-Men Gold art is (now) a good reason to look at the book, but the story is not. More Brotherhood, more Sentinels, more Mojo, more Phoenix. A creepy Kurt/Rachel romance that comes from nowhere and is not interesting. A Kitty/Colossus romance that’s apparently leading to marriage, so look for one of them to get killed again in a few years since nothing can ever change for real. I guess all the writers with new ideas are off doing creator owned properties. The problem with new ideas at Marvel is they are doomed not to sell. All that is left is the hardcore fanboy base who want the same things they have always gotten. Diversity. Change. New ideas. These are what ruined comics according to them and put Marvel in the position it is. And Marvel being reactionary has started to listen and step back form a lot of stuff. People get the comics their buying patterns deserve. If new ideas sold at Marvel, we would get more new ideas, but they don't, so we don;t get much of it. Marvel has been a reactionary company chasing what sells since it was founded by Martin Goodman. Even the innovation of the 60s Marvel Age with Lee/Kirby/Ditko happened because Goodman wanted to chase super-hero sales DC was getting, and Marvel weird books of the 70s were mostly chasing horror, kung fu and sci fi fads that were selling in other media. They have always been a reactionary company. Sometime sit leads to good stuff, other times not but at this point you can't fault them for being who they always have been. -M Can we please add that a lot of this is due to the incestuous nature of the direct market and single issue sales. Because all the data seem to point to those nasty "diverse SJW™) sell very nicely indeed in collected editions in alternative markets, i.e anyplace that isn't a hole in the wall comic shop, to those crazy, grubby young people who "don't buy comics." |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 14:43:13 GMT -5
The problem with new ideas at Marvel is they are doomed not to sell. All that is left is the hardcore fanboy base who want the same things they have always gotten. Diversity. Change. New ideas. These are what ruined comics according to them and put Marvel in the position it is. And Marvel being reactionary has started to listen and step back form a lot of stuff. People get the comics their buying patterns deserve. If new ideas sold at Marvel, we would get more new ideas, but they don't, so we don;t get much of it. Marvel has been a reactionary company chasing what sells since it was founded by Martin Goodman. Even the innovation of the 60s Marvel Age with Lee/Kirby/Ditko happened because Goodman wanted to chase super-hero sales DC was getting, and Marvel weird books of the 70s were mostly chasing horror, kung fu and sci fi fads that were selling in other media. They have always been a reactionary company. Sometime sit leads to good stuff, other times not but at this point you can't fault them for being who they always have been. -M Can we please add that a lot of this is due to the incestuous nature of the direct market and single issue sales. Because all the data seem to point to those nasty "diverse SJW™) sell very nicely indeed in collected editions in alternative markets, i.e anyplace that isn't a hole in the wall comic shop, to those crazy, grubby young people who "don't buy comics." Agreed, but for that hardcore fanbase, single issue sales are all that matter because people who don't read single issues aren't real comic fans and stuff that sells outside the comic shop doesn't matter at all. And this is the customer base that both Marvel and DC have decided to go all in on for the most part (especially MArvel, see Joe Q's comments about what was wrong with comics and Marvel in particular after Alonso was fired and he was stepping up as interim head of comics until Cebulski settled in re: Joe Q-we aren't catering enough to the hardcore fan who buys comics every Wednesday anymore because that is the core of our business and we stepped away from it-this is exactly the kind of wrong-headed thinking that got the comic industry in this mess to begin with but Joe Q thinks the solution is doubling down and going all in on it. So yes, there is stuff that sells much better outside the direct market, but Marvel at least seems to be wanting to step back away from that now (DC however, with Zoom and Ink seems to actually be stepping up to court that market). -M |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Feb 15, 2018 14:52:32 GMT -5
Wait, that hardcore fanbase you're talking about, are you refering to those marvel zombies that were super nervous if not angry when Quesada become EIC and only hired Vertigo writers, and thus saved Marvel by opening up the readership? How have they gotten hold of the house keys yet again?
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Søren
Full Member
I trademarked my name two years ago. Swore I'd kill any turniphead that tried to use it
Posts: 321
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Post by Søren on Feb 15, 2018 15:00:27 GMT -5
 I really enjoyed Grey Area. I loved it when it first appeared in 2000ad and still do. Its Sci-Fi-Fi meets boarder patrol and not so subtly deals with the issues of immigration and racism. The art in last years stories it is beautiful and strange, always lots of little details going on in the background, almost like own mini story going on alongside the main. Plan to buy trade paperback at some point of the early stories even though still have the comics it appeared in. |
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Post by rberman on Feb 16, 2018 15:43:32 GMT -5
Yes, the X-Men Gold art is (now) a good reason to look at the book, but the story is not. More Brotherhood, more Sentinels, more Mojo, more Phoenix. A creepy Kurt/Rachel romance that comes from nowhere and is not interesting. A Kitty/Colossus romance that’s apparently leading to marriage, so look for one of them to get killed again in a few years since nothing can ever change for real. I guess all the writers with new ideas are off doing creator owned properties. The problem with new ideas at Marvel is they are doomed not to sell. All that is left is the hardcore fanboy base who want the same things they have always gotten. This series of X-Men:Gold has a somewhat meta-commentary on this state of affairs when Mojo shows up and puts the X-Men into various 1980s settings (The Blue Area battle on the moon; the Days of Future Past; Asgard; Brood; the R'lyeh island; Inferno; etc.) while commenting that his audiences just eat this sort of material up. It's either a brilliant satire on X-Men fans, or it's total fanservice. Or maybe both?  |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Feb 16, 2018 17:51:09 GMT -5
Wait, that hardcore fanbase you're talking about, are you refering to those marvel zombies that were super nervous if not angry when Quesada become EIC and only hired Vertigo writers, and thus saved Marvel by opening up the readership? How have they gotten hold of the house keys yet again? I admit that I was one of those fans back in the day. I was never a Marvel Zombie in the worst sense and my interest waning until Heroes Return. I was a fan of Vertigo comics (mainly Sandman granted) but I've always been skeptical of telling "alternative style" superhero stories outside of the occasional experiment. I love that stuff too, but when it comes to superheros I'm a traditionalist. I think this is why it still irritates me that Quesada forced out Kurt Busiek. Marvel had their own Vertigo before Vertigo with the Epic line, but they never put the heart and effort into it to make it work. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Feb 16, 2018 17:52:48 GMT -5
Speaking of Daredevil (I've only read Waid's first year or so of DD so I'm waaay behind with the modern stuff) it's interesting how the title has always been good (more or less) since Miller. I think a big reason for this sustained quality is that the title get's an automatic pass from having to be involved in all those mediocre events.
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Post by String on Feb 17, 2018 11:24:38 GMT -5
I was very close to add Squirrel Girl as well, which you might very well be the one who convince me to give it a fair go. I must say that the way you talk about X-Men gold though, that doesn't sound like this belongs in htis topic  Yes, the X-Men Gold art is (now) a good reason to look at the book, but the story is not. More Brotherhood, more Sentinels, more Mojo, more Phoenix. A creepy Kurt/Rachel romance that comes from nowhere and is not interesting. A Kitty/Colossus romance that’s apparently leading to marriage, so look for one of them to get killed again in a few years since nothing can ever change for real. I guess all the writers with new ideas are off doing creator owned properties. Guggs' best point so far on Gold has been depicting Kitty as a strong capable leader, confident in her abilities and her experience and the same within her teammates. As for re-kindling her romance with Peter, I liked how he built it up with the flirting and her hesitation. Whether you believe they should be together or not, I for one am glad to see their newfound commitment. (And death for one is no answer. Death in comics has lost all emotional meanings, it's so laughable) As for Kurt and Rachel, there have been a few flirtatious moments between them before this so it's not totally out-of-the-blue but I think it's an interesting development. For me, I find Gugg's overall characterization to be consistent and engaging even if his story ideas suffer from execution flaws. |
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Post by String on Feb 17, 2018 11:32:21 GMT -5
Speaking of Daredevil (I've only read Waid's first year or so of DD so I'm waaay behind with the modern stuff) it's interesting how the title has always been good (more or less) since Miller. I think a big reason for this sustained quality is that the title get's an automatic pass from having to be involved in all those mediocre events. I admired Marvel's attempt to create a small stable of street-level titles around DD. Unfortunately, they had their flaws but the biggest surprise was Rosenburg on the Kingpin title, who gave a nuanced characterization of Wilson Fisk seeking a public-fueled redemption. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 17, 2018 11:37:35 GMT -5
I really enjoyed Grey Area. I loved it when it first appeared in 2000ad and still do. Its Sci-Fi-Fi meets boarder patrol and not so subtly deals with the issues of immigration and racism. The art in last years stories it is beautiful and strange, always lots of little details going on in the background, almost like own mini story going on alongside the main. Plan to buy trade paperback at some point of the early stories even though still have the comics it appeared in. Oohh.. that looks really good! Is that a US trade you posted the cover of there? |
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Søren
Full Member
I trademarked my name two years ago. Swore I'd kill any turniphead that tried to use it
Posts: 321
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Post by Søren on Feb 17, 2018 12:31:54 GMT -5
I really enjoyed Grey Area. I loved it when it first appeared in 2000ad and still do. Its Sci-Fi-Fi meets boarder patrol and not so subtly deals with the issues of immigration and racism. The art in last years stories it is beautiful and strange, always lots of little details going on in the background, almost like own mini story going on alongside the main. Plan to buy trade paperback at some point of the early stories even though still have the comics it appeared in. Oohh.. that looks really good! Is that a US trade you posted the cover of there? UK, from 2000AD shop so should get it in US too. If you view it in the shop here you can preview some pages. The art I'm talking about I like isn't in the original series but the story is still really good  |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Feb 18, 2018 21:56:09 GMT -5
Saga
Extremity
Maestros (by Steve Skroce, a creator I disliked in the 90's)
Mighty Thor
Batman
Marvel Two In One
Black Bolt
Thanos (just the current Space Ghost Rider story)
Black Panther
Nick Fury(gone? but OHSO worth it while it lasted)
Injustice 2 (after Thor, the title I read first every week)
I'm enjoying Avengers, Iron Fist, and Amazing Spider-Man, though none are in the outstanding category. Marvels Mutant and Inhuman books(other than BB) are dire, and the amount of seemingly contradictory storylines going on there and at DC are getting annoying. Contradictory as in heroes or villains having multiple appearances in long going stories. Iron Fist has been a blast, yet isnt a pinch on Immortal Iron Fist from a few years back. Then theres Captain America, after the train wreck of HydraCap I'm waiting, its looking ok, but theyve got some ground to recover first.
I keep trying other publishers, and have read some ok books from Image, Titan, Bubble, Boom, Dark Horse, and Archie, but BEST of the year? Not yet.
Now roll on Marvels Conan by Crom.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 22:40:24 GMT -5
Now roll on Marvels Conan by Crom. unfortunately not until 2019, so a whole year away at least. -M |
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sacorn
Junior Member
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Post by sacorn on Feb 20, 2018 5:02:00 GMT -5
Saga Extremity Maestros (by Steve Skroce, a creator I disliked in the 90's) Mighty Thor Batman Marvel Two In One Black Bolt Thanos (just the current Space Ghost Rider story) Black Panther Nick Fury(gone? but OHSO worth it while it lasted) Injustice 2 (after Thor, the title I read first every week) I'm enjoying Avengers, Iron Fist, and Amazing Spider-Man, though none are in the outstanding category. Marvels Mutant and Inhuman books(other than BB) are dire, and the amount of seemingly contradictory storylines going on there and at DC are getting annoying. Contradictory as in heroes or villains having multiple appearances in long going stories. Iron Fist has been a blast, yet isnt a pinch on Immortal Iron Fist from a few years back. Then theres Captain America, after the train wreck of HydraCap I'm waiting, its looking ok, but theyve got some ground to recover first. I keep trying other publishers, and have read some ok books from Image, Titan, Bubble, Boom, Dark Horse, and Archie, but BEST of the year? Not yet. Now roll on Marvels Conan by Crom. I am loving Maestros, it's always my first read (and I hope it's continuing after #6 as there isn't a new solicit in the latest previews) The mighty Thor Captain Kronos was great I'm also enjoying Punisher and Dark Ark |
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Post by Dizzy D on Feb 20, 2018 9:18:11 GMT -5
ALso enjoying Maestros, I'd expect there will be more, but in case of Image they quite often do a season-type of publication instead of every month a release. Image comics make most of their sales in trade form, so I would not expect a cancelation until the first trade comes out (though there have been exceptions. Poor Switch.)
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