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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 5, 2018 21:46:44 GMT -5
I just read on CBR.com that in an upcoming Marvel comic, Adam Warlock was coming back from the dead!
All fine and dandy, but Warlock has been back for a good while, now, having been resurrected several times in Jim Starlin’s trio of Infinity graphic novels. Last I saw him, he was his Guardians of the galaxy pre-Magus self. (One of him, that is. Another universe’s Warlock had also become the Living Tribunal).
It’s ironic that in an era where continuity is ignored so much that dead characters just show up again with no explanation (Echo, Crusher Creel), some are resurrected when they're not even dead.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 22:08:54 GMT -5
I'm curious about this and I hope that they do something good for a change; I'm somewhat a fan of this character and I have read some his books long time ago and been resurrected several times and I've gotten a bit tired of it. I have a dear friend who is a Adam Warlock fan and he's hoping for a revival that's would be a positive one indeed. Thanks for reporting this and I keeping an eye on this RR!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 22:31:25 GMT -5
I just read on CBR.com that in an upcoming Marvel comic, Adam Warlock was coming back from the dead! All fine and dandy, but Warlock has been back for a good while, now, having been resurrected several times in Jim Starlin’s trio of Infinity graphic novels. Last I saw him, he was his Guardians of the galaxy pre-Magus self. (One of him, that is. Another universe’s Warlock had also become the Living Tribunal). It’s ironic that in an era where continuity is ignored so much that dead characters just show up again with no explanation (Echo, Crusher Creel), some are resurrected when they're not even dead. From what I gather (and what lead to Starlin leaving Marvel again) is that what Starlin did in the OGN does not fit Marvel's overall plans for Thanos and crew now and are not considered continuity. The gave the main Thanos book to someone else even though Starlin wanted to write it, and approved a storyline which resembled what Starlin was doing in the next set of OGN that Alan Davis is in the process of drawing, but go in a different direction with it and it will be released before Starlin's books are out, so the Starlin OGN's are kind of a What If kind of story, not actual continuity, so no Warlock is not actually already back in the MU even though he is appearing in those OGN's. -M
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 5, 2018 23:31:17 GMT -5
I'm a big Starlin and Warlock fan but the recent Starlin books were weird. Last I read, He was like Eternity and he had an entire universe inside of him. Too much, indeed.
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Post by hondobrode on Jan 6, 2018 0:30:01 GMT -5
I'm so done with Marvel.
Might actually pick up the FF when it comes back though.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 6, 2018 8:18:54 GMT -5
I just read on CBR.com that in an upcoming Marvel comic, Adam Warlock was coming back from the dead! All fine and dandy, but Warlock has been back for a good while, now, having been resurrected several times in Jim Starlin’s trio of Infinity graphic novels. Last I saw him, he was his Guardians of the galaxy pre-Magus self. (One of him, that is. Another universe’s Warlock had also become the Living Tribunal). It’s ironic that in an era where continuity is ignored so much that dead characters just show up again with no explanation (Echo, Crusher Creel), some are resurrected when they're not even dead. From what I gather (and what lead to Starlin leaving Marvel again) is that what Starlin did in the OGN does not fit Marvel's overall plans for Thanos and crew now and are not considered continuity. The gave the main Thanos book to someone else even though Starlin wanted to write it, and approved a storyline which resembled what Starlin was doing in the next set of OGN that Alan Davis is in the process of drawing, but go in a different direction with it and it will be released before Starlin's books are out, so the Starlin OGN's are kind of a What If kind of story, not actual continuity, so no Warlock is not actually already back in the MU even though he is appearing in those OGN's. -M Fair enough. For me, anything that Marvel has done in the past two decades is a series of big What If..? runs anyway. Not that it’s necessarily bad, but the Marvel continuity has been dead for a good long while.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 6, 2018 10:43:43 GMT -5
I have the same attitude about the last 10 years or so. I mentally have a cut off point for certain books and characters. It doesn't bother me that this might be the 6th time Thanos has collected the Infinity stones. I Can block it out.
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Post by hondobrode on Jan 6, 2018 12:35:13 GMT -5
I know there's a lot of churning but it's more prevalent now, at least to me, than ever before.
As far as "too much of a good thing", that's exactly what I feel Marvel, and Disney, do. DC does it too but it mostly seems to work over there.
Maybe it's just my attitude.
You wouldn't know it from reading my posts here on CCF, but like all of us, I used to love Marvel.
Having a couple of X-Men titles, i.e. Uncanny and New Mutants, makes sense to me. Throw in a Wolverine solo, and I can still go with that, but all the rest ? Please !
That's what Marvel has become and I hate it.
Besides the freshness of the characters and creators really belting out their best, what I like about Valiant is that you can read a single title and line-wide crossovers are rare.
I can read Bloodshot, or X-O Manowar or Secret Weapons and get a good solid story without all the bs the Big Two have and especially the bloating of franchises. Valiant said from the start that they'd keep their universe limited to 8 titles and that's what they've done, rotating characters and limited series here and there to maintain that.
To be honest, I think both Marvel and DC would like to do this but can't because they're both in a publishing standoff where if one does that the other has more titles and smothers the other one.
If they could trim their titles back, I think they'd see the return of 6 figure circulations again and simplify their universes and work load.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 13:32:04 GMT -5
I know there's a lot of churning but it's more prevalent now, at least to me, than ever before. As far as "too much of a good thing", that's exactly what I feel Marvel, and Disney, do. DC does it too but it mostly seems to work over there. Maybe it's just my attitude. You wouldn't know it from reading my posts here on CCF, but like all of us, I used to love Marvel. Having a couple of X-Men titles, i.e. Uncanny and New Mutants, makes sense to me. Throw in a Wolverine solo, and I can still go with that, but all the rest ? Please ! That's what Marvel has become and I hate it. Besides the freshness of the characters and creators really belting out their best, what I like about Valiant is that you can read a single title and line-wide crossovers are rare. I can read Bloodshot, or X-O Manowar or Secret Weapons and get a good solid story without all the bs the Big Two have and especially the bloating of franchises. Valiant said from the start that they'd keep their universe limited to 8 titles and that's what they've done, rotating characters and limited series here and there to maintain that. To be honest, I think both Marvel and DC would like to do this but can't because they're both in a publishing standoff where if one does that the other has more titles and smothers the other one. If they could trim their titles back, I think they'd see the return of 6 figure circulations again and simplify their universes and work load. There's not a large enough customer base buying comics in the direct market for numbers on titles to increase significantly if they trip titles. They can only capture market share and revenue by volume of titles. For years, Marvel and Dc have aimed their output at the collector's market, and that's all that's left, and it is the collector's market that drive multiple titles of their favorites by buying entire lines, it's collectors that drive events by buying them in higher numbers than other books, it's collectors that drive #1s and reboots because they buy those in higher numbers than other books. The comics we have is a direct result of the buying patterns of the customers left in the market, and Marvel and DC are only reacting to what does sell (and none of it sells well outside of the context of the direct market). The customers who have different buying patterns left the market long ago and are not coming back even if Marvel and DC change how they do things. The corral gate was already opened and the cattle have already escaped, there's no comic book cowboy that can go out there and herd them back into the market. Comic book stores need the monthly pamphlet to remain viable, the comics industry as a whole does not unless it wants to stay in a configuration that is shirking to the point of becoming obsolete. Comics can evolve and survive, I am not sure the direct market can. When Phil Seuling started the direct market it was to sell directly to customers who already knew what they wanted. It wasn't designed to gain new readers or bring in new audiences, it was meant to service existing customers. It became so successful servicing those existing customers it became more profitable than the newsstand market which was abandoned. But they never developed a mechanism to bring in new audiences and gain new readers. The direct maket is terrible at that because it was never designed to do that, and everyone was too shortsighted to build such a mechanism to replace what the newsstand did, and now they are reaping what they have sown. All that is left is existing readers with particular buying patterns (and I will say with self-destructive buying patterns), and it now needs those sprawling lines with too many titles just to survive in the market because there is not enough potential buyers left in the marketplace as it exists to sustain the industry with fewer titles. Cut titles and you cut sales. More people aren;t going to buy your flagship books if you cut the ancillary books. Most buying your ancillary books are also already buying your flagship titles. New readers aren't going to magically appear to buy your flagship books if you cut your ancillary books. More books generate more revenue in a small customer base and they need that revenue stream because it won;t be there if they cut titles (as tiny as the stream is from each title). It's a vicious circle and a downward spiral. There are ways out of it, but they don't involve monthly pamphlets int he direct market. I am not saying they should abandon that, but I am saying it should no longer be the main focus of their business model. They need to service the existing market for sure, but they need to find new markets, the new markets are not going to come to the existing market. And I highly doubt a deep complex continuity with interconnected titles are part of finding that new market. -M
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Post by hondobrode on Jan 6, 2018 17:41:40 GMT -5
What I should have said is, continue what they're doing and set up a retro imprint, either retroactive continuity or an alternate reality / dimension / whatever out of continuity.
I'd buy the heck out of that from either DC or Marvel.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 6, 2018 17:45:54 GMT -5
I feel like they've tried multiple times to market out-of-continuity titles to non-direct market customers with no success, even if those books are often really good.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 6, 2018 19:01:34 GMT -5
What I should have said is, continue what they're doing and set up a retro imprint, either retroactive continuity or an alternate reality / dimension / whatever out of continuity. I'd buy the heck out of that from either DC or Marvel. Comic buyers don't buy those books because they "don't count" unless they're in the same incestuous continuity as all the rest of the books.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 6, 2018 19:26:56 GMT -5
What I should have said is, continue what they're doing and set up a retro imprint, either retroactive continuity or an alternate reality / dimension / whatever out of continuity. I'd buy the heck out of that from either DC or Marvel. Comic buyers don't buy those books because they "don't count" unless they're in the same incestuous continuity as all the rest of the books. DC has had a couple hits that "don't count." Alex Ross' Justice, All Star Superman, Dark Knight: The Master Race. Although maybe they're all technically from Earth 38 and a Half now.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 6, 2018 20:15:09 GMT -5
Comic buyers don't buy those books because they "don't count" unless they're in the same incestuous continuity as all the rest of the books. DC has had a couple hits that "don't count." Alex Ross' Justice, All Star Superman, Dark Knight: The Master Race. Although maybe they're all technically from Earth 38 and a Half now. The first two are over 10 years old. I honestly don't know how Justice sold. And both of them had big fan-favorite creators. I'm not sure how DK:MR sold either, but it's a sequel to one of the most important books of the last 40 years. All three are pretty big difference from a standard monthly comic.
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Post by hondobrode on Jan 7, 2018 12:08:31 GMT -5
We need more books like them.
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