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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 16, 2018 16:17:55 GMT -5
This came up after I mentioned the company and having worked there, in the Astro-City thread, in the classic forum. I'm sure many have heard about the abrupt layoffs two days ago. Rest assured, I was not one of them (and I did receive a message, asking), though I am both saddened and not surprised.
I started working for B&N in 1993 and it was a great company to work for. They treated employees well, had good benefits and decent pay (especially for retail). The stores are staffed by people who are passionate about books and for most it was a dream job. That continued for many years. However, digital retailing started cutting into things. The sad fact is that price will trump service and knowledge, in today's market. You just have to look around and the gravestones of once great retailers (and comic companies, for that matter). B&N had smart management and always looked long term; but, Wall Street is all about the next quarter, not the next 5 years (let alone 10). Borders, by contrast, had very poor management that was always chasing the dying fad and not building on their core market. They used debt financing and the only reason they didn't collapse sooner was that their chief creditor was their chief shareholder. He used it to balance his portfolio, until it was no longer sound. They had labor strife going back to the late 90s, as several stores voted to unionize (and then reversed on that within a few years).
B&N was a great place to work, with great customers and a real involvement in the community. It wasn't just a "chain," as some indies liked to label it. It wasn't predatory, like Walmart. We routinely sent customers for books to other stores if we didn't have it in stock and they did. Bookselling is a community and we were part of that.
B&N was always smart with it's finances. It maintained minimal debt, while keeping access to large lines of credit. It introduced Nook to try to stay alive in the digital playing field. The first device had teething issues; but, later ones surpassed Kindle in so many features, except one: marketing. B&N never really handled marketing well, ever. Tech was about new and sexy and that was not B&N. Eventually, they handed device development over to Samsung and concentrated more on content. Meanwhile, retailing remained strong and the brick and mortar store sales carried the company. The company turned to alternate products, adding games and hobby items, as well as increasing decorative stuff. However, price still trumps and the internet could undersell.
I left in 2014 (not long after my 20th anniversary), after butting heads with my district manager. Starting a few years before that, we started seeing changes. Community Relations managers were laid off, then some brought back in markets with large institutional sales. Department Managers were reclassified as hourly, after the US Dept. of Labor handed down some big fines to companies like Big Lots, where management was working well beyond 40 hours, doing the jobs of hourly employees, because they weren't given payroll to staff their stores properly. When I started with B&N, we had full time lead booksellers, in charge of different areas, head cashiers to supervise the checkout area, 2 keyholder/leads, a manager and two assistant managers (plus cafe manager and music department manager, in stores with those departments). The keyholder/supervisor was elevated to managerial status and made hourly. Then, lead bookseller titles were eliminated, though existing ones remained as full time employees. The Department managers were reclassified as hourly after the afore-mentioned issues. Soon, assistants were, as well, as we were also carrying out more and more grunt work, as payroll budgets shrunk. When I started, we had at least one person in each quadrant of the store; now, they have one at the customer service, one at cashwrap and one in kids, during peak hours. It went from mandatory staffing to traffic-based. Now, B&N has eliminated the last of the full time, non-managerial positions.
B&N is grasping at straws, now, as they have cut every cost they could. Next it will be a thinning of management, until there is only one store manager and a few part timers, before they outright shutter the stores. That has been happening anyway. The sharks have been swimming around B&N for years; now, they have blood in the water. It won't be pretty.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 16:24:57 GMT -5
Sorry to read this. My local B&N has pulled me back in with better service & products. It definitely is a better experience browsing there instead of searching thru a website. I rely on it for books, movies & vinyl.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 16, 2018 16:55:15 GMT -5
B&N is grasping at straws, now, as they have cut every cost they could. Next it will be a thinning of management, until there is only one store manager and a few part timers, before they outright shutter the stores. That has been happening anyway. The sharks have been swimming around B&N for years; now, they have blood in the water. It won't be pretty. You're obviously in a better place to know, but from my reading, it appears they haven't cut every cost they could. Everything I see indicates they're incredibly top-heavy on upper management that makes a LOT of money along with stock options, etc. And they've been carrying a lot of pay out to short-term CEOs. What I see from B&N now is a classic case of a company getting ready to be done. They're simply working on upper management scavenging the body for all they can before the ultimate demise. |
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Post by Rob Allen on Feb 16, 2018 16:55:25 GMT -5
When my parents moved to a rural area in the 1990s, I suggested that they put a sign that said "Zenoble" on their barn.
Then they could tell people that there was a "barn Zenoble" nearby...
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 17, 2018 0:06:02 GMT -5
B&N is grasping at straws, now, as they have cut every cost they could. Next it will be a thinning of management, until there is only one store manager and a few part timers, before they outright shutter the stores. That has been happening anyway. The sharks have been swimming around B&N for years; now, they have blood in the water. It won't be pretty. You're obviously in a better place to know, but from my reading, it appears they haven't cut every cost they could. Everything I see indicates they're incredibly top-heavy on upper management that makes a LOT of money along with stock options, etc. And they've been carrying a lot of pay out to short-term CEOs. What I see from B&N now is a classic case of a company getting ready to be done. They're simply working on upper management scavenging the body for all they can before the ultimate demise. Oh certainly; but, they will be the last to go and that will be with golden parachutes. The college division, which was spun of a year or two ago, is sound and doing well, though with platforms for colleges turning digital and with on-line textbook rentals, that may change. Follets has been plunging downward for several years. I got out when I saw that Len Riggio, the chief shareholder and founder, was selling off a third of his stock, for "estate planning." He had been the one keeping the sharks at bay and it was obvious he was looking to retire. His brother Steve left several years before, after the death of his daughter ( a special needs child, who had debilitating health issues). Steve had been the visionary and the real heart and soul of the company. Things seem to be falling apart when he took leave to deal with his daughter's illness. When he announced he wasn't returning, we veterans started wondering. There are still a lot of viable elements of the company and I suspect they will start piecemealing it further, before they throw the last spade of dirt on the grave. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 17, 2018 0:07:58 GMT -5
ps. My wife's niece was one of those who walked in and found out they didn't have a job anymore. She's young enough that she will probably find another relatively quickly. I know older folks who aren't so lucky. Still, I have one friend who has been on medical leave from B&N, battling stage 4 cancer. There are worse things in the world than being laid off, with severance.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 8:47:01 GMT -5
My Barnes and Noble - I go there about once a month for certain Comic Books Novels and books and they even have their own Starbucks too. I buy about 1-2 books a month and usually keep some set aside for gifts and all.
Good Service and quite crowded on the weekend ... I don't go there during the winter time and more like Spring to Fall. Planning on going there in mid-March and visit some of my friends from work there.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 18, 2018 12:54:32 GMT -5
My Barnes and Noble - I go there about once a month for certain Comic Books Novels and books and they even have their own Starbucks too. I buy about 1-2 books a month and usually keep some set aside for gifts and all. Good Service and quite crowded on the weekend ... I don't go there during the winter time and more like Spring to Fall. Planning on going there in mid-March and visit some of my friends from work there. Common misconception; Barnes and Noble owns and operates their cafes, they just serve Starbucks coffee. Most people think they are Starbucks stores, inside a B&N. Starbucks licenses others to run Starbucks set-ups, while adhering to their standards. The B&N relationship is a bit different; but, along similar lines. The Starbucks logo tends to dominate the B&N Cafe signs. B&N actually determines the menu and doesn't carry all of Starbucks' coffee, nor do they accept Starbucks gift cards or their reward card (unless something has changed in the last couple of years, since I have been gone). We used to run into that issue, quite a bit. Starbucks used to send field reps to inspect our operation, to ensure we were brewing to their standards. Our cafes always scored, consistently, 5 out of 5, while their corporate stores often struggled. the difference was that B&N was far stricter about its standards than Starbucks. The thing that always drove me nuts was that we would have something on the menu that I really liked; but, B&N would get rid of it or replace it with an inferior version. We used to have a really great chili; then, it was replaced by a much thinner, soupier one. Blech! Starbucks has actually been a bit underhanded in the relationship. They would have data about our traffic, based on our coffee orders, then open up their own stores within a block or two and cannibalize our traffic. Free enterprise and all; but, you'd think their would be some kind of contractual agreement. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 13:01:06 GMT -5
My Barnes and Noble - I go there about once a month for certain Comic Books Novels and books and they even have their own Starbucks too. I buy about 1-2 books a month and usually keep some set aside for gifts and all. Good Service and quite crowded on the weekend ... I don't go there during the winter time and more like Spring to Fall. Planning on going there in mid-March and visit some of my friends from work there. Common misconception; Barnes and Noble owns and operates their cafes, they just serve Starbucks coffee. Most people think they are Starbucks stores, inside a B&N. Starbucks licenses others to run Starbucks set-ups, while adhering to their standards. The B&N relationship is a bit different; but, along similar lines. The Starbucks logo tends to dominate the B&N Cafe signs. B&N actually determines the menu and doesn't carry all of Starbucks' coffee, nor do they accept Starbucks gift cards or their reward card (unless something has changed in the last couple of years, since I have been gone). We used to run into that issue, quite a bit. Starbucks used to send field reps to inspect our operation, to ensure we were brewing to their standards. Our cafes always scored, consistently, 5 out of 5, while their corporate stores often struggled. the difference was that B&N was far stricter about its standards than Starbucks. The thing that always drove me nuts was that we would have something on the menu that I really liked; but, B&N would get rid of it or replace it with an inferior version. We used to have a really great chili; then, it was replaced by a much thinner, soupier one. Blech! Starbucks has actually been a bit underhanded in the relationship. They would have data about our traffic, based on our coffee orders, then open up their own stores within a block or two and cannibalize our traffic. Free enterprise and all; but, you'd think their would be some kind of contractual agreement. Let me explain something ... you are right on this and I'm going there just for coffee and nothing more. My reward card doesn't work at all either and I have to pay cash for my coffee; including refills at 55 cents. I'm a coffee guy nothing more and nothing less. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Mar 8, 2018 15:12:53 GMT -5
Very sad about the demise of B&N. I used to love going in there and just looking around. Amazon is great and all, but sometimes it's nice to be able to go to a store and actually look at something before you buy it, especially a book you're not very familiar with.
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Post by rom on Mar 16, 2018 23:42:17 GMT -5
No offense to those who like/patronize & who work @ Barnes & Noble, but I always found the store extremely overpriced - especially their CD section.
I used to like going to Borders much more (when they were around), because they typically had sales on their books, and I also felt they had a better selection of everything.
I'm slowly cutting out brick & mortar shopping to a great extent these days, anyway - and ordering more online. I hate driving, and the closest B & N is all the way across town - not worth it these days.
That being said, it is sad that so many brick & mortar retail stores are going under, including all of the bookstores that we've seen go out of business in years past. I'm in my late 40's, and grew up with stores like Waldenbooks/B Dalton (both were typically in malls), Crown Books (discounted new books), and Border's - all of these have since gone out of business.
In my area, these days we only have Half Price books (which still seems to be doing good business, Thankfully) and Barnes & Noble.
It's not just online sales that led to the demise of bookstores, however. I feel that less people are reading these days - everyone is on their smart-phones, streaming movies, etc. This isn't a criticism, however - I myself am reading a lot less than I used to.
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Post by rberman on Mar 16, 2018 23:47:15 GMT -5
Very sad about the demise of B&N. I used to love going in there and just looking around. Amazon is great and all, but sometimes it's nice to be able to go to a store and actually look at something before you buy it, especially a book you're not very familiar with. I can't imagine Books A Million is doing any better than B&N. I go to the BAM near my parents' house every couple of months to check out graphic novels or pick up some books for my kids. If they close, there won't even be a local option for a bookstore besides the meagre selection at Super Wal-Mart. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Mar 17, 2018 9:37:53 GMT -5
Very sad about the demise of B&N. I used to love going in there and just looking around. Amazon is great and all, but sometimes it's nice to be able to go to a store and actually look at something before you buy it, especially a book you're not very familiar with. I can't imagine Books A Million is doing any better than B&N. I go to the BAM near my parents' house every couple of months to check out graphic novels or pick up some books for my kids. If they close, there won't even be a local option for a bookstore besides the meagre selection at Super Wal-Mart. Yeah, it's pretty sad. There's almost nowhere left to go to buy book, other than B&N and an occasional used book store. The Waldens and Borders where I used to live in Rochester, NY (not to metion Media Play) both closed years ago, and I don't think there's anything other than B&N where I am now in Florida. |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Mar 17, 2018 13:39:40 GMT -5
But aren't used bookstores in fact making a comeback (at least in some areas)? I've read about that, and to some extent I saw it for myself when I visited relatives in Oregon last January - I went to several (mainly) used bookstores in both Portland and Salem, and all of them were doing quite well, with lots of customers browsing the shelves on any given day (heck, even the book sections of thrift stores like Goodwill always seemed to have more than a few people poring over the shelves).
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Post by rom on Mar 17, 2018 14:47:15 GMT -5
But aren't used bookstores in fact making a comeback (at least in some areas)? I've read about that, and to some extent I saw it for myself when I visited relatives in Oregon last January - I went to several (mainly) used bookstores in both Portland and Salem, and all of them were doing quite well, with lots of customers browsing the shelves on any given day (heck, even the book sections of thrift stores like Goodwill always seemed to have more than a few people poring over the shelves). Agreed. Though, note the bookstores you're referring to are probably all local bookstores, that are almost certainly known/patronized by the locals - or those who are visiting the area from out of town. These are not nationwide chains, don't typically sell new books exclusively, and therefore wouldn't have to deal with the same costs/overhead?! that a bookstore like B & N (that only sells new books) would have. I myself went to the great used/new bookstore Powell's Books in Portland, Oregon when I visited there several years ago. Huge store, great selection, and great prices. Another amazing used/new bookstore is The Strand, in New York City. Though not nearly as huge as Powell's Books, this is another amazing bookstore with a great selection & great prices: www.strandbooks.com/ |
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