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Post by codystarbuck on May 3, 2018 15:05:23 GMT -5
ps Notice, in the example how the Super Skrull and Mar-Vell engage in a high jump competition? I notice Mar-vell favors the Fosbury Flop.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 3, 2018 15:39:49 GMT -5
Creative Team: Jim Starlin pencils, plot and script for 1 out of 3 chapters; Mike Friedrich scripts 2 chapters, Dan Green inks, Tom Orzechowski letters and Roy Thomas edits. Synopsis: Rick fills in the Avengers about Thanos, while T'Challa, who went to fetch some tapes, is knocked cold by some shadowy, hulking figure. Vision goes after him and is konked on the noggin by a hunk of machinery. We learn that one of the Controller's discs is on Lou-Ann's neck and Iron Man knows something about him (as well as Thanos and Drax). Rick switches to Mar-Vell, who shows off his abs, before replacing his costume (Scarlet Witch just happens to have a spare!). He fills in the rest and we see the Avengers picked off one by one, by the Controller. Chapter 2 switches to Drax and Thanos, as the ring announcer makes the introductions. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the Main Event of the evening. One fall or submission, with the cosmic cube at stake. The challenger, hailing from the dead moon of Titan, weighing in at 700 pounds of raw bone and muscle, the Mad God Thanos! In the blue corner, the champion, weighing in at 260 lbs, from Earth, now making his home on Titan, the Mater of Mayhem, the Sultan of Smoosh, the Ayatollah of Rock and Rolla.....Drax, the Destroyer! Your referee, Death, incarnate!" Thanos starts monologing and turns the bout into a Titan Death Match and Jim Starlin smokes something funny (or eats some fungi)... Thanos assaults Drax's brain; but he resists, saying he knows death is just change and that he knows that life is freedom and other philosophical things. Then, the LSD trip comes to an end... and Drax falls face down, leaving the Cosmic Cube in Thanos' hands. Come on ref, are you blind? FIX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WANT A REFUND!!!!!!!!! Back at the ranch, the Controller and Mar-Vell go at it. Controller plants a mind disc on Mar-Vell; but, the power of the joint minds of Mar and Rick block it, making it useless. So, Controller throughs a computer bank at Mar-Vell, burying him under a ton of rubble. he switches back to Rick, who is trapped, unable to resummon Mar-Vell, with the Controller carrying off Lou-Ann to do a a Cosby. Thoughts: Now that's cosmic! Nothing says the 1970s like trippy art and hallucinogenic drugs! Starlin has admitted to imbibing in certain substances, during this period (as did much of the rest of the Bullpen, under the age of 40) and it shows. This turns into blacklight poster territory rather quickly. Starlin's scripting in chapter 2 is a step above Friedrich and it looks like he is starting to feel his oats. This is oddly unphysical, as we never really get a fight, as much as a metaphorical battle of images and concepts. No wonder Drax loses. He isn't that bright. Controller is more of a distraction, really. We are also teased with an image of something called Eon, who says the time isn't right yet. Eon looks like a conjoined twin, made out of a ball of mud, a face, and one red eye! Starlin really needs to take a break from that stuff. Thanos fully reveals that the robed figure is the embodiment of Death, rather than just implying it. He also sounds a bit more epic, with Starlin's words. The stakes have great;y risen here and now we know something big is about to happen. We are definitely coming back
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Post by codystarbuck on May 3, 2018 16:33:44 GMT -5
Creative Team: Jim Starlin story, pencils and colors; Al Milgrom inks, Tom Orzechowski letters and Roy Thomas edits. Synopsis: At the end of last issue, Eon manifested itself to Mar-Vell. Now, we get the full conversation, as Starlin takes another hit of whatever and we turn on the Pink Floyd music.Mar-Vell faces images of old foes, then see the birth of the Titans, as Chronos battles his father, Uranus, defeating him and banishing to that planet. Chronos has two sons, Zeus and A'lars. Chronos has sworn off war and turns to academic pursuits, including experiments with cosmic energy. A tube cracks and unleashes unimaginable power and Chronos' essence is spread among the cosmos. Zeus assumes command and banishes A'Lars. He wanders space and comes to Titan, where he meets Sui-San, another survivor of what destroyed Titan. Together, they create a paradise, giving birth to sons Eros and Thanos. There is an interlude, as we see Thanos, with the Cosmic Cube, having re-enslaved his father and brother. Drax awakens and goes looking for Mar-Vell. Rick is still trapped under rubble, wondering about Lou-Ann, who is having a new control disc fitted by the Controller. Back in wherever, Eon gives a dissertation on the tragedy and stupidity of war, challenging Mar-Vell's idea that there s honor in it. He confronts Mar-Vell with the notion that to protect, you must first have love, and shows him the lifeless body of Una, his lost love. She is re-animated, only to have no emotion, as Eon tells Mar-Vell there is no life without a soul. Mar-Vell finally graks Eon's rap and says he digs. Eon transforms Mar-Vell, turning him blond, in the process... Mar-Vell now has Cosmic Awareness, able to fully know himself and his foes and he defeats the spectres of his past enemies. Now, he is ready to fight Thanos. He manifests on Earth, in Ric's place, ready to take the fight to Thanos. Thoughts: Starlin comes into his own, as a writer, here. This is all his baby. Starlin lays out his thesis of the futility of war, saying that it brings only death; there is no nobility or righteous war. Starlin served in the US Navy, during the Vietnam War, as a photographer, riding along in helicopters. As such, he saw a lot of death and destruction, in a war that seemed to have no defined purpose. Ground would be fought for, people died in large numbers, only for the victorious to withdraw and repeat the process. His wasn't the War of Liberation of Jack Kirby. Eon argues against the idea that Kirby's war was in any way noble, as it resulted in massive death. You can argue that much of the death could have been avoided, if everyone had been willing to stand up to the Nazis' ambitions, before war was the only recourse, rather than appease them, to avoid another conflict. That's as maybe; but, Kirby and his fellow soldiers were now fighting to eject a definite evil from conquered lands; and, for Kirby, to liberate his people from concentration camps. o do so involved deals with devils and much senseless killing of civilians and soldiers; but, it had a purpose. Starlin's war just seemed to be endless killing, with bodycounts as the only measure of success. So, war, to Starlin, is a senseless waste of life, which is the ultimate truth of war. Meanwhile, he muses about love as being the opposite, the giver of life and the true source of what life is all about. This is some pretty heady stuff. Mar-Vell, a warrior, is faced with these ideas and is transformed. No longer is he the soldier seeking glory and honor; but the protector, saving life and love. His Cosmic Awareness makes him one with the universe, allowing him to know himself and his foes, thereby stopping them. It's all very Eastern, with touches of Zen, Mindfullness, Taoism and Buddhist Truths. This was the era of the New Age philosophy/esoteric mumbo-jumbo (the commercial crap that was laid over the actual Eastern teachings). All of this occurs in pages of story that are the trippiest thing since Ditko's Dr Strange. The transformation to blond is never really given a rationale. I suspect Starlin probably felt it looked better with Mar-Vell's color scheme. Thanos has little part in this, as we find him back in control, thanks to the Cosmic Cube. It leaves a lot of questions; but, this is mostly about Mar-Vell's awakening. From here, he will bring the fight to Thanos. In many ways, this is the culmination of both the Kirby epic storytelling and the Neal Adams detail schools coming together, with the weird filter of Ditko. As such, you could call it the sum total of the Marvel era influences. And, yet, the book was still just a cult favorite. It embodies the creativity that was happening at Marvel and how the market, as a whole, was largely oblivious, while a select few were enjoying something beyond the norm. Contrast with Europe, whose comics were undergoing a renaissance that was both experimental and commercially successful, with people like Moebius (various works), Druillet (Lone Sloane), and Esteban Maroto (Cinco Por Infinito) earning both praise and sales, culminating in the launch of Metal Hurlant. American comics were experimenting; but, the success wasn't there with much of the experiments, as far as the mass audience.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 3, 2018 16:43:30 GMT -5
ps The story of Chronos was later retconned to be part of the Eternals Saga. A schism between the Eternals leads to a group departing for space, for the planet Uranus. That group will become the Uranians, who gave Marvel Boy his wrist bands, which will eventually be tested by Wendell Vaughn, who will become Quasar. Kronos will have his essence scattered across space and his son A'Lars will lead the splinter faction that will settle on Titan. Zeus, will be Zuras, who leads the Eternals of Olympia, who is Mentor's brother, rather than Zeus.
This background conflict and the characters were what Starlin conceived in college and this issue is probably the most direct distillation of the ideas he was forming, then. Eros is love and Thanos is death. We see the two sides of Starlin's cosmic coin. Love is the source of life and death the end of it; or, the transformation of it. Mentor represents the mind. There is a superficial similarity to the 4th World, mostly in the conflict between peaceful pursuits and naked ambition, symbolized by New Genesis and Apokolips in the 4th World and Thanos and Eros in Starlin's cosmos. Ting is, as he executes it, Eros really plays a very small part, as Captain Marvel becomes the vessel for those ideas, leaving poor Eros little to do but be a prisoner. Warlock will delve into Starlin's Catholic upbringing, with Nuns that he described as John Birchers!
Ultra-conservative Catholic upbringing and Vietnam; no wonder Starlin's work seems obsessed with death and religion.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on May 3, 2018 17:30:54 GMT -5
Reading your background on Starlin, it never ceases to be a surprise the negative effects on people that the Vietnam war had. And obviously more so by those that witnessed it first hand. The reoccurring themes of war, religion and love in Starlin's stories all point to things that must have made them such a powerful influence on him. And love is the great equalizer of hate, and is above all power, strength, weapons, money, or any other thing that man seeks.
I never knew he was raised Catholic, but having been raised Jehovah's Witness myself, I can easily relate to his themes of religion. Especially the role of the Universal Church with Warlock. I have never seen war first hand, and hope that I don't in my lifetime. But the immense toll it takes on those that have, I can see now, how and why, Starlin writes about war the way he does.
cody, where was the Eternal Saga told in? I would be interested in reading it for the part Chronos is in it.
And these two issues are some of the best tripped out Starlin we will see, until he gets his hands on Warlock. (And least of what I've read.) I don't remember him doing two much between the Thanos Saga and Warlock. But they were only a few years apart if I am remembering correctly.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 4, 2018 1:44:54 GMT -5
Reading your background on Starlin, it never ceases to be a surprise the negative effects on people that the Vietnam war had. And obviously more so by those that witnessed it first hand. The reoccurring themes of war, religion and love in Starlin's stories all point to things that must have made them such a powerful influence on him. And love is the great equalizer of hate, and is above all power, strength, weapons, money, or any other thing that man seeks. I never knew he was raised Catholic, but having been raised Jehovah's Witness myself, I can easily relate to his themes of religion. Especially the role of the Universal Church with Warlock. I have never seen war first hand, and hope that I don't in my lifetime. But the immense toll it takes on those that have, I can see now, how and why, Starlin writes about war the way he does. cody, where was the Eternal Saga told in? I would be interested in reading it for the part Chronos is in it. And these two issues are some of the best tripped out Starlin we will see, until he gets his hands on Warlock. (And least of what I've read.) I don't remember him doing two much between the Thanos Saga and Warlock. But they were only a few years apart if I am remembering correctly. This is from shaky memory. There were back-up stories in What If (27 and 28, written by Mark Gruenwald), that featured the Uranians leaving Earth, after the schism with the Olympians. Unless I missed something else (or it's hidden in the fog of age) that was where the Titans and Uranians were retconned into Eternals, which was made official in OHOTMU (Gruenwald's pet project). Starlin altered Drax's origin, a bit, in the upcoming issues, adding to what we saw in Iron Man 55. They were not part of Kirby's run and I don't believe they were discussed in Roy Thomas' Thor stories. I believe that was all Gruenwald's idea, to tie together the advanced civilizations on Titan and Uranus, from Captain Marvel and the old Marvel Boy stories, with the other ancient, advanced civilizations. If memory serves, it is an encounter with a Kree ship which causes the Titan group to not reach Uranus, though I haven't read that in a long, long time. Gruenwald was the continuity cop, at Marvel, based on his fan work tying together comic book story continuities (his Omniverse fanzine). Starlin started working for Marvel in 1972, after publishing some fanzine stuff (Dr Weird). He did a few Spider-Man stories, some Amazing Adventures and some other bits and pieces. He did Iron Man #53, then came back for #55, the first Thanos story, and 56, before being booted off. Apparently, Stan didn't like his work (per a Comics Journal encapsulation, for a review). Roy offered him Captain Marvel later in the year (1973) and the Thanos Saga was launched. Starlin quite Captain Marvel after a dispute over an arbitrary inker change and then produced material for Mike Friedrich's Star*Reach, before coming back to Marvel to do Warlock. By the end of the 70s, he was doing work for DC, including co-creating Mongul, and doing some OMAC back-up stories, in Warlord. That was soon followed by developing the Metamorphosis Odyssey, for the launch of Epic Illustrated, plus the Dreadstar graphic novel and The Price, published by Eclipse. He launched the Dreadstar monthly at Epic, before transferring it to First. He was then working for DC (with a bit of Marvel, here and there) including on Batman and things like Cosmic Odyssey and Gilgamesh II. He returned to Marvel and was doing Silver Surfer, which led to Thanos' Quest and Infinity Gauntlet and what followed that. Starlin's last Captain Marvel was #36, in 1974 and the first warlock (the revived Strange Tales) was in 1975. His Star*Reach stories were in the first two issues (the first one revolves around Death). At one point, Starlin, Howard Chaykin, Walt Simonson and Val Mayerik shared a studio, called Upstart Associates. They kind of formed the nucleus of that second wave of Marvel Artists (the Bronze Age crowd) that would grow to include guys like George Perez and John Byrne.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 4, 2018 1:55:04 GMT -5
ps The Vietnam generation of comics includes Starlin, Larry Hama, Don Lomax, Mike Grell, Doug Rice, Doug Murray, Dave Cockrum and Steve Englehart (who registered as a conscientious objector, which was eventually granted and he was discharged). I'm probably missing someone there; but these I know for certain. Lomax and Doug Murray saw combat and their stories reflect it. I believe Hama did, too. Grell was in the Air Force and worked as an artist; but, he has talked about preparing visual display graphics, for briefings, which featured statistics that told him a lot about the behind the scenes management of the war, including deaths that could have been avoided. He has spoken in the past about carrying around guilt about that knowledge. Not sure what branch Rice served in, but, he spoke to me, at a convention, about being in Vietnam, when we discussed Dynamo Joe and the similarities with Joe Haldeman's The Forever War 9a sci-fi novel, based on his experiences in 'Nam). Cockrum served in the Navy, in Guam, on a submarine tender (he was also an Air Force brat).
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 4, 2018 3:20:52 GMT -5
So the art in Cap Mar 28 is basically my favorite. Everyone needs to take way more drugs.
Tell me we got Thanos' Team up book appearance (from Marvel Feature, the lead-in to Marvel Two-In-One) coming up.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 4, 2018 12:06:03 GMT -5
So the art in Cap Mar 28 is basically my favorite. Everyone needs to take way more drugs. Tell me we got Thanos' Team up book appearance (from Marvel Feature, the lead-in to Marvel Two-In-One) coming up. Yeah, I intend to cover those, as well as the Logan's Run story.
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Post by Rob Allen on May 4, 2018 13:57:08 GMT -5
I was buying and loving these issues as they came out. Haven't read them in a long time, so it's nice to have my memory jogged by these reviews. I recalled that Starlin's CM was a quantum leap better than what came before, but this thread helps me recall the issue-by-issue progress that brought the book from good to great. At the time, I sensed that Starlin had had the Titan characters and their backstory in his mind for a long time, and that if he hadn't brought them in to the Captain Marvel book, he would have done them somewhere else. CM was a good fit for the Cosmically Aware Hero role that Starlin envisioned, so putting the Titans here was a good choice.
I wasn't using any mind-altering substances at that time, but I loved the trippy art and could see how the trippiness helped tell the story. Maybe I just always had an affinity for it, or maybe comics like this helped prime my mind for expansion.
After several issues with different inkers, Milgrom's arrival along with Starlin taking over the scripting really brought this series to its golden age. Starlin & Milgrom are still among my favorite penciller/inker combos. A few years later, Steve Leialoha also did beautiful inking on Starlin's Warlock, but at that point I already thought Starlin was repeating himself.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 4, 2018 23:13:23 GMT -5
My first Captain Marvel was around this time. I'm a little hazy; but, I think it was Starlin's first issue. My intro to the Guardians of the Galaxy was Defenders, with Steve Gerber. Man, I love this timeframe. When I got out of college and reached my first home port, I started collecting in ernest and bought a bunch of the stuff I read in this era, plus the ones I missed, but, heard about. I picked up a lot of Captain Marvel, Deathlok and Guardians dirt cheap. By the time I was leaving the military, 4 years later, prices had skyrocketed on all of that, thanks to Infinity Gauntlet, the new Deathlok mini-series, and the Valentino Guardians series. I ended up selling that stuff for ten times what I paid; best investment I ever made. Damn good comics, too. That first Defenders comic I read (featuring Starhawk on the cover, made me a huge fan of the Guardians. I had heard they were going to have cameos in Guardians 2; but had mostly forgotten by the time I saw it, after it was on dvd. I was a bit distracted and didn't realize, at first, that Stallone was Starhawk, since I always pronounced it Stuh-kar; not Stake-ar, like Michael Rooker did. I also didn't pay that close attention to that part of the end credits scene, when they had the whole gang, sort of. I just watched both Guardians films again and realized that Stallone's little metal loops on his jacket are their nod to Starhawks solar wings and caught that Ving Rhames was Charlie 27 and noticed Martinex. Still not the same, though (but, what I expected). I wanted my originals. That was a nice cross of Avengers and Star Trek. Plus, Vance Astro was always one of my favorites, though Yondu was my number one. I was happy to see the full fin; just wished it was a bit more like my Guardians comics. Still a good film, though.
I'm curious about how much of this will filter into the Carol Danvers movie. I have heard that Mar-Vell has a modified role. How much Thanos does, remains to be seen. I suppose he will not be a caucasian Kree and that they will leave out the racial division there.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on May 5, 2018 11:26:47 GMT -5
So the art in Cap Mar 28 is basically my favorite. Everyone needs to take way more drugs. Tell me we got Thanos' Team up book appearance (from Marvel Feature, the lead-in to Marvel Two-In-One) coming up. Yeah, I intend to cover those, as well as the Logan's Run story. That is one of my favorite Starlin Thanos stories. And about the only time I ever remember Drax more than a bumbling lummox. Something I think even Starlin did to him far too often.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 7, 2018 23:54:25 GMT -5
Creative Team: Jim Starlin pencils and story, Al Milgrom inks, Tom Orzechowski letters, Roy Thomas editorial kibbitzing. Synopsis: Mar-Vell and Rick have a little confab, mentally, while Iron man jerry-rigs a tracker for the Controller's disc frequency. Mar-Vell heads off to find the Controller and Iron Man remarks (mentally) about the change in Mar-Vell, from headstrong Kree warrior to calmer, more focused protector. The Controller is monolgueing and is interrupted by his master, Thanos, who tells him to kill CM or be blasted into oblivion by the Cosmic Cube. Rick Jones has a visitor at Avengers Mansion, so Mar switches places, allowing Rick to talk to Mordecai Boggs, music agent and promoter. He cuts a deal with Rick, for a gig at a Greenwich Village nightclub and he agrees to be there (unless he dies fighting Thanos). He switches back to Mar, who flies off, allowing Rick to comment on the sparkling effect that Starlin added, when CM flies. He says it is a byproduct of the photonic energy, but has no other effect. I say it is fairy dust. You be the judge! Mar crashes through a wall and finds the Controller and calls him by his real name, Basil Sandhurst; 'cause Mar is Cosmically Aware. He offers a philosophical debate and Controller offers his fist. Mar leans down and tosses him, demonstrating that Starlin has a wonky grasp of judo, based on the body positioning. A fight ensues and everyone notices that Mar is far more formidable than last time and Starlin has everybody doing a lot of leaning and crouching. Before you can say, "KERTOOM..." ...Mar has cleaned Basil's clock and Thanos' face materializes and he unleashes the Omega Effect....er, Cosmic Cube and the Controller disappears. Mar switches to Rick, who finds the freed Lou-Ann and they commence sucking face. Thanos rants about puny idiots misusing the Cosmic Cube and that he will use it to achieve one wish.... DA-Da_DUMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, and Iron Man takes some mental notes and flies off to look for Thanos' old base, in the Southwest, which will lead us into Marvel Feature #12 (EDIT: or not, since that takes place between CM #28 and 29). And, Drax turns up at Avengers Mansion. Thoughts: This mostly serves to demonstrate Mar-Vell's new abilities and how his Cosmic Awareness makes him a better fighter and person. It doesn't help him find Thanos or the Cube, though, or keep him from getting ambushed; so, it is a very selective "awareness." Funny, that. Mordecai Boggs is a bit of a diversion, mostly planting seeds for after Thanos is beaten. I mean, come on, did any reader, then or now think Thanos would win? In the Bronze Age, in a Code-Approved book? Psshaw! Starlin and Milgrom make an excellent team, though there are some panels, here and there, that seem a little "less" than other. Nothing major; just certain angles and poses. Starlin is growing quickly, though. He's also becoming very wordy, for a writer-artist. He doesn't yet seem confident enough to let the art carry more of the story. Then again, 70s comics (especially Marvel) tended to be filled with word and thought balloons (and narration boxes). Thanos is very Darkseid, in this one, threatening subordinates (gonna have to call HR about that!) and making them disappear when they fail. He's still more background, than active villain, at this stage. Quite frankly, I always felt Thanos came into his own more in the Warlock phase, than here.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 8, 2018 0:20:26 GMT -5
Creative Team: Mike Friedrich writing, Starlin drawing, Joe Sinnott inking, Mike Royer coloring, L Lessman lettering, Roy blue penciling. Synopsis: The Thing is walking around the desert Southwest, as you do, from time to time, after he and the Hulk fought the Leader. He just happens to run into Iron Man, who is looking for Thanos' old base, from Iron Man #55. He catches us up on things from IM #55 to CM #28, then we see a hand stop another from blasting him with a raygun. It belongs to one of the Blood Brothers and they report in to the boss, Thanos, who says they can kill Iron Man. "goody, goody, goody!" The Blood Brothers "Pearl Harbor" Iron Man and start a-stompin' and a-kickin', with the ref nowhere in sight. Iron Man gets a few licks in; but, decides to follow REO Speedwagon's advice and "Take it on the run!" He flies right smack into Ben, knocking him loopy, allowing the Brothers to jump him. Thanos is pleased and tells them to kill them, in the grand tradition of wrestling managers everywhere. Ben overhears this and gets up and declares it is Clobberin' Time; the original "Popping the strap" (as Lance Russell used to say, when Jerry "The King" Lawler would slip off his singlet strap and start punching the heels). The Brothers turn to biting; but, Ben is too tough for them... Ben and Tony start double-teamin' and we have a "Pier Sixer" goin' (Katy, bar the door!). The babyfaces get the upper hand and Thanos pulls them out of the ring with the Cosmic Cube. Iron Man heads back to Avengers Mansion, in time to be there for CM #29 and 30, while ben is back to hoofin' it across the desert, since he is too heavy for Tony to carry, in his weakened state. Yeah, right; too weak! Wuss! Thoughts: Meh.....Not a bad story, just kind of average. No good reason for Thanos to be involved, other than to up his profile. This was the second issue of what was to be a Thing team-up book, which morphed into Marvel Two-in-One. Like most team-up titles, there is little logic for the heroes coming together and not many consequences at the end. Ben was a pretty good vehicle for team-ups, but, this wasn't one of his best. Friedrich does the writing, dropping things back to where they were before Starlin started writing his own script. Sinnott is fine on the art, though he overpowers Starlin. Then again, with Captain Marvel going on, Starlin may have done looser pencils, on this one. Now, back to our regularly scheduled Saga, already in progress...
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on May 8, 2018 8:53:44 GMT -5
I like the Blood Brothers. But other than that, I have to agree with your assessment of it's place in the Saga. It didn't really seem to fit in and the team-up together didn't make much sense. I also liked their return in the Drax the Destroyer mini series.
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