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Post by rberman on Jun 30, 2018 23:30:27 GMT -5
I understand what a penciler, inker, and colorist add to the finished product in ways that can be done poorly, adequately, or with brilliant execution. I had a much fuzzier understanding of the craft of the letterer. Obviously they are supposed to get all of the writer's words on the page legibly, without blocking the art, in a timely fashion. Sometimes they may be responsible for diegetic elements like sound-effects or non-diegetic elements like issue titles. But what is it that separates a decent letterist from a brilliant one, other than speed? What artistic choices are left up to them to decide, of which it can be said, "This was more than competent. This was special"?
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 1, 2018 6:58:02 GMT -5
Lol...now I've officially seen it all.  This is the thread I always imagined might be a possibility in this place, or back at the old CBR classic comics forum, but I never thought I'd actually see it! God knows I love classic comics, but I have less than no opinion on the relative merits of different letterers. Long as as I can read what it says, then it's done its job. |
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Post by rberman on Jul 1, 2018 7:21:35 GMT -5
Lol...now I've officially seen it all. This is the thread I always imagined might be a possibility in this place, or back at the old CBR classic comics forum, but I never thought I'd actually see it! God knows I love classic comics, but I have less than no opinion on the relative merits of different letterers. Long as as I can read what it says, then it's done its job. That was my thought as well, when I saw the "Best Letterer" category in the Ringo awards. I guess they just didn't want the letterers to feel left out? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 8:12:25 GMT -5
Bad lettering takes you out of the story. It IS noticeable. Good lettering enhances the story... it helps the eye follow the story more naturally.
BAD: Old Charltons.
Great: American Flagg!
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 1, 2018 8:20:21 GMT -5
One look through some Golden Age books will convince even the hardiest skeptic how crucial lettering can be to the look and feel of a comic. Illegibility was a major criticism of the medium back then and deservedly so. I have no qualms about heaping praise on Ben Oda, Artie Simek, Ken Bruzenak, Tom Orzechowski, Jon Costanza, Gaspar Saladino, Stan Starkman, and all the other too-frequently-unsung heroes and heroines whose calligraphy enhances my reading experience.
Cei-U!
I summon the laurel wreaths and huzzahs!
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 1, 2018 9:41:15 GMT -5
Bad lettering takes you out of the story. It IS noticeable. Good lettering enhances the story... it helps the eye follow the story more naturally.
BAD: Old Charltons.
But weren't the Charltons typed or something similar? I mean, they weren't hand lettered, were they? I definitely agree that Charlton lettering was painful, and so was the typewritten dialogue in old ECs or in UK war comics like Commando, but what I mean is that hand lettered comics from the 60s onwards, are largely indistinguishable to me. Typed dialogue in a comic book has always been a pet hate of mine though. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 1, 2018 10:11:25 GMT -5
Bad lettering takes you out of the story. It IS noticeable. Good lettering enhances the story... it helps the eye follow the story more naturally.
BAD: Old Charltons.
But weren't the Charltons typed or something similar? I mean, they weren't hand lettered, were they? I definitely agree that Charlton lettering was painful, and so was the typewritten dialogue in old ECs or in UK war comics like Commando, but what I mean is that hand lettered comics from the 60s onwards, are largely indistinguishable to me. Typed dialogue in a comic book has always been a pet hate of mine though. For a time, Charlton's were typed, on "A. Machine." It was a very large typewriter, with interchangeable keys, which they had in a specific font. Dick Giordano's wife used to do a great deal of it. However, they didn't always use it and didn't use it for that long. I didn't note it; but, some issues of Astonishing Tales, with Deathlok, had specially lettered "computer dialogue", done by a separate letterer. It looked like a typeface, though I don't think that was how it was produced. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 13:31:30 GMT -5
Bad lettering takes you out of the story. It IS noticeable. Good lettering enhances the story... it helps the eye follow the story more naturally.
BAD: Old Charltons.
But weren't the Charltons typed or something similar? I mean, they weren't hand lettered, were they? I definitely agree that Charlton lettering was painful, and so was the typewritten dialogue in old ECs or in UK war comics like Commando, but what I mean is that hand lettered comics from the 60s onwards, are largely indistinguishable to me. Typed dialogue in a comic book has always been a pet hate of mine though. Yes. What codystarbuck said. The example I posted I think was hand lettered. Huge difference between it and when Aparo did his own lettering. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 1, 2018 13:50:49 GMT -5
I'd like to say that Clem Robbins was always good, and also Tom Orzechowski!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2018 14:12:00 GMT -5
About a year ago, I linked an article about the secret life of letterers and colorists that appeared inthe Atlantic in this threadA year before that, Shaxper started a thread about inkers, letterers and colorists found here Both contain information relevant tot he question by the OP and the Atlantic article is most informative. I forget which of his three books he addresses it in, but Scott McCloud also talks about how lettering affects the perception of story and its uses in conveying, mood, tone and emotionin comics. I believe it was in his third book about comics (Making Comics) but it could have been in Understanding Comics as I read all three in succession and which book addressed what is a bit fuzzy. Will Eisner and Frank Miller discuss lettering (looking at many of the same things McCloud does) quite extensively in one of the chapters of Eisner/Miller. the website for Blambot is a site for acquring different fonts for lettering run by Nate Piekos, one of the better letterers in contemporary comics, but it also has a number of "how to" articles (and links to Youtube videos) about lettering that examine it forma nuts and bolts perspective and what makes good lettering that enhances the comic, and what makes bad lettering that distracts from the comics. There's also lots of different samples to look at there too. Among all that, you should find enough grist to give you some perspective about what makes fgood lettering, what the goals of good lettering is etc. to help answer the question in the OP. -M |
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Post by chadwilliam on Jul 1, 2018 20:02:08 GMT -5
 Though I would have preferred seeing that unique elongation of the letter 'e' limited to only Doctor Fate's dialogue, I can't argue that the lettering here really suited the unusual nature of the strip. Speaking of Golden Age strips, it's interesting to see the progression of lettering as it pertains to the thought balloon. Prior to the cloudy looking thing we're all familiar with, you can tell that letterers (if it were the responsibility of the letterer and not the artist) were struggling to come up with the ideal way to represent thought. Sometimes you'd get "whisper -- better change into Superman" or a broken looking speech balloon and while it might just be me responding to that which I'm used to seeing, none of these looked quite right. It wasn't until I've seen it done "wrong" that I began to appreciate all those little quirks letterers have contributed to comics (such as exclamation points in place of periods) and just what they add to the field. Does anyone (Cei-U! perhaps?) know who came up with those thought balloons or is it more likely a mystery lost the sands of time? |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 1, 2018 20:21:21 GMT -5
Todd Klein.
Next question?
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 1, 2018 20:47:01 GMT -5
Lettering makes a huge difference for me. It's one reason I always had a hard time getting into Charltons, and especially Gold Keys. No matter how good the art or story might be, if I can't read the text because of bad lettering, I'm never going to get through it.
One of the first comics I ever read was Simonson's Thor, which features powerful and unique lettering from John Workman.
For the most part, though, lettering is like a referee in sports - if you notice it, it usually means someone's doing it wrong. I find I rarely notice good lettering, but bad lettering is immediately obvious.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 8:58:15 GMT -5
It is Chris Claremont's scripts in the Uncanny X-Men -- he and Chris made it possible for me to enjoy that series. I'm a big Tom Ozechowski fan. Tom's Lettering see below an example of that ... the square-ish lettering that's makes it easy for me to read and that alone makes it's great.  From Uncanny X-Men #125 |
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Post by MDG on Jul 2, 2018 10:15:29 GMT -5
I always liked Bob Lappan's work. Abe Kanegson deserves a lot of credit for adding to Eisner's Spirit strips.
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This is the thread I always imagined might be a possibility in this place, or back at the old CBR classic comics forum, but I never thought I'd actually see it!
