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Post by beccabear67 on Aug 5, 2018 0:18:01 GMT -5
Because I never 'got' it. The recent talking about some things tweeted by a sarahyeong and taking them in context got me thinking. I can understand something of the context politically for that, and no, this isn't going to be political here, but what was the context for Andrew Dice Clay? I was missing that because Sam Kinnison and Judi Tenuta I found funny, lots of other edgy comics I could at least understand what they were doing, but no dice when it came to Dice Clay. Is this some kind of typical 'strong' guy from a borough in New York he's sending up by doing a deadpan impersonation? I saw an interview where he said he wouldn't hang out with such a guy. Mostly it just confused me, but the violence toward women thing would (obviously you'd think) genuinely concern me. If a line like 'drop the bra b**ch or I'm gonna cut ya' were drop the watermelon skittles black kid, or drop the Qur-an Mustafa...? Not funny then? Still "not to be taken seriously" as people said about Dice Clay? He also made 'jokes' about gays that sounded more like the same kind of abuse aimed at all women. Nora Dunn left SNL over it supposedly, although Jon Lovitz said she was not coming back the next season and just used the situation to get some press on her way out. Anyway, I lack context for what this guy was doing and obviously having great success with in the '90s. Lorne Michaels who brought us Andy Kaufman who I loved and Gilda and Bill Murray and the rest vouched for him, and Lorne is a fellow Canadian, so I'm thinking there has to have been something there I was totally blind to. So it seems worth a shot to ask. If you know who Judi Tenuta is and her act where she calls men pigs and stuff with her alternating Glinda and 'diesel duchess' voices, does that fall flat for you about how Dice Clay does for me? I really thought people laughing at Dice Clay were pod people and kind of scary, maybe even especially the women laughing. Were they nervous laughs from the women? Were these women victims of abuse in the home or something to laugh even nervously as a release? Or did they actually have to fearfully deal with 'tough' guys like that 'character' and this was their chance to mock one? It's like when Harlan Ellison went into one of those slasher horror films and was so repulsed he wrote like twenty columns about it over many years! Would someone have picked this one-note idiot character over Jan Hooks or Nora Dunn? The whole thing baffled me then and still does now.  Obviously some kinda caractah! |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 5, 2018 0:29:43 GMT -5
As an adolescent at the time that he was achieving widespread notoriety, I remember that anyone who had actually heard Andrew Dice Clay's comedy got instant respect because he was taboo/forbidden. But the little I actually heard of his comedy never landed with me. I didn't get it either. And I never even heard the violence towards women stuff. Frankly, that's pretty upsetting to hear.
But, to be fair, I think a lot of Lorne Michaels' picks in the late '80s/early '90s were questionable. Dana Carvey aside, it was a pretty weak time for SNL. I never even understood the appeal of Phil Hartman.
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Post by comicsandwho on Aug 5, 2018 3:38:16 GMT -5
There really wasn't much to 'get' with 'Diceman'. In real life, he wasn't really 'that guy'...but his career went nowhere once his 'fifteen minutes of lame' ended. He was in a forgettable CBS family sitcom for a few weeks, and...gone. As for Phil Hartman, WhatcuTALKINbout, Shax?  He, Carvey, and Dennis Miller were the highlights of that era of 'SNL'(It's the 1985 cast of 'Harry Shearer and some people' that was a weak spot). |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Aug 5, 2018 6:44:06 GMT -5
Can't help with the question at hand, really, because I honestly never got why Clay became so popular in the late 1980s. I was in college at the time, and out of all of my friends and acquaintances, there was all of one who thought he was so awesomely funny. Meanwhile I'd watch his routines and think, 'okay, so we're supposed to think Fonzie telling crude, misogynistic joke and is funny?'
On the other tangent in this conversation, I thought the late '80s/early '90s SNL cast (Hartman, Carvey, Myers, Hooks (RIP), Dunn, Rock, etc.) was one of the better ones.
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Post by Cei-U! on Aug 5, 2018 7:35:35 GMT -5
Nope, I never got him either. I couldn't stand Andy Kaufman but with him, I at least understood why other people thought he was funny even if I didn't. Not Clay. He just flat out turned my stomach.
Cei-U!
I summon the barf bag!
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 5, 2018 8:08:25 GMT -5
The only thing I know him from is Amazon Women on the Moon. And even in that setup he wasn’t funny. Reminds me of Daniel Tosh and some other unfunny modern day comedian guy whose name escapes me that try to be offensive for the sake of it.
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 5, 2018 8:13:52 GMT -5
He made crude jokes that were funny to some people. It wore thin very quickly and he is still a name that people remember.
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cee
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Post by cee on Aug 5, 2018 8:13:54 GMT -5
I'd say "well, just look at America" : no one knows who he is outside of the US, but his constructed character resonnated with a segment of the 80ies population, and I'm pretty sure we can all think of a few people around us who would have fitted the profile then.
England's 90ies had a huge "Lads" culture which was pretty similar and as difficult to defend, but just look at the success of a show such as two and a half men. I wouldn't even know where to begin in any attempts to find it funny, but if those stereotypes existed around me, maybe? I don't know, hahaha...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 9:49:45 GMT -5
The only thing I know him from is Amazon Women on the Moon. And even in that setup he wasn’t funny. Reminds me of Daniel Tosh and some other unfunny modern day comedian guy whose name escapes me that try to be offensive for the sake of it. Same here and I just find him pretty dismal of an actor -- enough said. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Aug 5, 2018 12:21:19 GMT -5
It's hard to imagine the guy in a family sitcom situation, that maybe could've even been interesting to see, but probably not for very long. It'd likely be similar to Two And A Half Men. I guess maybe he was trying to be the new Lenny Bruce or something. Bruce would say some outrageously racist things and get away with it somehow in a jazz-hipster sort of street rap way, but again the laughter would be kind of ironic or nervous. I'm not sure Lenny Bruce ever played well much outside of America either.
I remember Phil Hartman from News Radio and as Frankenstein singing with Tonto and Tarzan. So weird he and Jan Hooks and Chris Farley are all gone now. :^(
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Post by comicsandwho on Aug 5, 2018 13:41:00 GMT -5
It's hard to imagine the guy in a family sitcom situation, that maybe could've even been interesting to see, but probably not for very long. It'd likely be similar to Two And A Half Men. I guess maybe he was trying to be the new Lenny Bruce or something. Bruce would say some outrageously racist things and get away with it somehow in a jazz-hipster sort of street rap way, but again the laughter would be kind of ironic or nervous. I'm not sure Lenny Bruce ever played well much outside of America either. I remember Phil Hartman from News Radio and as Frankenstein singing with Tonto and Tarzan. So weird he and Jan Hooks and Chris Farley are all gone now. :^( Re: Hartman...I can't believe it's been 20 years. 'Andrew Clay' did not use his 'middle' name, or 'stand-up' persona, for whatever that sitcom was; he was just trying to play another 'sitcom dad'. All I remember is an ad in TV Guide playing on his former image by saying 'The whole freakin' family will love' the show. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Aug 5, 2018 14:09:54 GMT -5
Chuck Klosterman's book about villains "I wear the black hat" had a whole chapter about ADC. The argument was Clay's popularity was due to pushback against the linguistic and cultural changes of the late '80s. Klosterman also thought this made Clay extremely period specific and he won't make a comeback. There was more to it.... it was one of the strongest chapters in a really strong (and short!) book.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 5, 2018 18:03:39 GMT -5
It's hard to imagine the guy in a family sitcom situation, that maybe could've even been interesting to see, but probably not for very long. It'd likely be similar to Two And A Half Men. I guess maybe he was trying to be the new Lenny Bruce or something. Bruce would say some outrageously racist things and get away with it somehow in a jazz-hipster sort of street rap way, but again the laughter would be kind of ironic or nervous. I'm not sure Lenny Bruce ever played well much outside of America either. I remember Phil Hartman from News Radio and as Frankenstein singing with Tonto and Tarzan. So weird he and Jan Hooks and Chris Farley are all gone now. :^( Your post and mentioning NewsRadio reminded of this. (Also omg can Kandi Alexander be the most beautiful woman in the world?) |
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Post by berkley on Aug 5, 2018 19:56:03 GMT -5
I wasn't a fan and didn't understand his popularity for the most part, but once or twice I thought I could what he was trying to do: the only one I can remember right now is: "Why'd the monkey fall out of the tree? He was f****n' dead, all right?!" And my reaction was, OK, I get it, he's supposed to be funny because he's so stupid. The humour is meant to come from the idea that here's this guy who's so dumb, he actually thinks that was a joke with a punchline and everything.
But that was just part of his act, the rest of it seemed to be, as someone else already mentioned, based on shock value, and as such is a part of pop culture and especially American pop culture I've never liked. It's like those statements from years ago that the Guardians of the Galaxy director got fired for recently: they weren't funny, as he himself now acknowledges, so the only possible reason behind them was an intent to shock, which means that the shock effect was seen as something valuable in itself and worth going after no matter what you have to do to induce it in your audience.
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Post by beccabear67 on Aug 5, 2018 20:28:10 GMT -5
It isn't entirely gone as I saw a clip of Rosanne recently saying "I thought the b**ch was white!" about the woman she made a Planet Of The Apes comment about. Haw haw?  |
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He, Carvey, and Dennis Miller were the highlights of that era of 'SNL'(It's the 1985 cast of 'Harry Shearer and some people' that was a weak spot).
