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Post by profh0011 on Nov 21, 2019 23:41:22 GMT -5
When I was working on this blog project, I was rather shocked to discover that the guy who was doing the art on this feature just at the time I had a subscription, was the SAME guy I saw doing SUPERMAN and LEGION... Curt Swan! Here he is doing full art (pencils and inks), from mid-1968.       |
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Post by jason on Nov 28, 2019 0:28:41 GMT -5
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 28, 2019 1:24:58 GMT -5
profh0011, not to be disagreeable, but I think those pages are at the very least, inked by Al Williamson. He did lots of work for Boy's Life, IIRC. And, for the life of me, they don't look like Swan pencils. Where did you see that they are?
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Post by rberman on Nov 28, 2019 8:28:49 GMT -5
Interesting. I looked up a character in my own faith (Presbyterian) to see what came up. The most famously Presbyterian in comic books is Rahne "Wolvesbane" Sinclair, whom Chris Claremont generally uses as a negative example of religion. She's the secret bastard child of Reverend Craig, the kind of fundamentalist Scottish Presbyterian pastor that hasn't existed for 150 years (if ever), roaming the moors with a Bible in one hand and a pitchfork in the other, looking for someone to shout at. Craig raised Rahne but pretended she was adopted. Chris Claremont used Rahne's religion as a negative point to explain her shy, self-loathing personality. In religious conversation she was generally an anxious foil for someone wiser and gentler, like Sam Guthrie.  Reverend Craig's expectation that Rahne atone for her mother's alleged sins (chiefly sex with the Reverend himself) "and save her from the pit" is not exactly Presbyterian. Central to Presbyterian belief is the notion that only Christ can atone for our sins. Rahne's actual beliefs seem more Catholic, thinking that our actions can help those who have already died and are having an unpleasant time in Purgatory. But the next listed Presbyterian was Robert "Speedball" Baldwin, about which I didn't know much. So I looked him up. He seems to be one of those characters taken in completely different directions by different writers. He started out as a late Ditko character, a teen torn dualistically (Ditko, as I said) between a father's expectation of a practical career and a mother's expectation of a creative career. ( Speedball #1, 1988)  Fabian Nicieza got a hold of him during The New Warriors, and in #35 had him declare himself Presbyterian in the middle of a joke. A throwaway line that doesn't impact the plot or character in any obvious way. Perhaps Nicieza was cuing off of the ethnic origin of the name "Robert Baldwin." Robert is a Scottish name, and Baldwin is Anglo-Saxon, so a "Robert Baldwin" might well be Presbyterian. He also uses the phrase "liberal cultural elite," a dog whistle phrase among American evangelicals. Some Presbyterians are evangelical, and some are not. If he's using the phrase sarcastically, he means he's not an evangelical. If he's using it sincerely, then he probably is evangelical.  Fast forward to Civil War: Front Line #10 in 2007. Speedball has accidentally caused the death of dozens of civilians, igniting the whole Civil War among pro- and anti-registration heroes. In a story written by Paul Jenkins, he gets a new super-suit that triggers his bouncing powers by poking him with sharp needles. His new name is "Penance" because he is guilt-ridden over the deaths he caused, and his self-flaggelatory supersuit is his punishment.  The author of that "religion of superheroes" page sees the change from Speedball to Penance as highly motivated by Baldwin's Presbyterian beliefs. But the opposite is the case. Presbyterian belief and practice is staunchly opposed to the notion that we can do penance in this life to even the scales from our sins. Jenkins (like the article's author, and like Claremont) appears to have confused Presbyterianism with Catholicism. That's not quite as off as confusing Judaism with Islam, but it's a pretty far stretch. One suspects Jenkins wasn't even aware of that one throwaway line by Nicieza describing Speedball as "Presbyterian" fourteen years prior. This is an example of fans building a more consistent and detailed continuity than the inherently collaborative medium of comic books deserves. It would be better to say that under one writer, Speedball was Presbyterian, but under others he was not. Ditko certainly didn't envision his creation as Presbyterian. |
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Post by profh0011 on Nov 28, 2019 11:12:40 GMT -5
profh0011 , not to be disagreeable, but I think those pages are at the very least, inked by Al Williamson. He did lots of work for Boy's Life, IIRC. And, for the life of me, they don't look like Swan pencils. Where did you see that they are? For the life of me, right this minute I can't remember who it was, but, a writer who specialized in x-rated comics who was also a huge fan of Curt Swan was the one who pointed it out to me, and the instant he said, it, I thought, "MY GOD! He's RIGHT!" Look especially at the women in the first episode I posted... I couldn't possibly miss that. I can't help that you don't think it LOOKS like Swan, but it sure as hell does to me.
As for the inks, YES, it is very similar to how it looked when Williamson inked Swan (though in fact I have never seen that combo myself), but apparently, THAT'S what it looks like when Curt Swan INKS HIMSELF, which I'm not sure he was ever able to do while working for DC Comics.
In the months I spent tediously researching and downloading various comics from BOY'S LIFE (from their site, not an easy thing to do if you saw how badly it was designed), I don't remember ever seeing anything from Al Williamson. That's in 62 years worth of comics I poured thru. That's not to say that he didn't... because Al Stenzel, originally the editor of the comics section, when he opened up his own company and REPLACED his former employers, Johnstone & Cushing, on the magazine-- effectively DRIVING THEM OUT OF BUSINESS (nice guy), he REMOVED almost all the artists credits from the comics... and they didn't return until he PASSED AWAY in 1979. (Nice guy.)
The artists I have seen (some credited, some not) include Creig Flessel, Irving Novick, Lou Fine, Curt Swan, Frank Bolle (he did the BIBLE feature for just over 20 straight years), Don Punchatz, Anthony Castrillo, Graeme Hewitson, Tin Salamunic (the latest I saw posted), while on SPACE CONQUERORS there was Al Stenzel, George Evans, Lou Fine, Alden McWilliams, and Gray Morrow (Lou Fine came back near the end, while Morrow alternated on the odd installment here and there). There was a stretch from 1974-1979 where at least 4 different artists worked on the BIBLE feature, none of whom I have been able to identify at all yet. (Thank YOU, Al Stenzel...) Further, among the various comics-style advertisements, one can also see work from Neal Adams... who, compared to just about every one else at Johnstone & Cushing, seems like a stiff, lifeless rank amateur. (Irony?)
It's maddening that I can't remember the guy who pointed Swan out to me, especially as he was on my FB list for several years (until he got on my nerves with some of his snide comments).
I wish somebody could help me nail down those artists between 1974-79. Some of them look so familiar... but I just can't place them.
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 28, 2019 11:40:21 GMT -5
profh0011 , not to be disagreeable, but I think those pages are at the very least, inked by Al Williamson. He did lots of work for Boy's Life, IIRC. And, for the life of me, they don't look like Swan pencils. Where did you see that they are? For the life of me, right this minute I can't remember who it was, but, a writer who specialized in x-rated comics who was also a huge fan of Curt Swan was the one who pointed it out to me, and the instant he said, it, I thought, "MY GOD! He's RIGHT!" Look especially at the women in the first episode I posted... I couldn't possibly miss that. I can't help that you don't think it LOOKS like Swan, but it sure as hell does to me.
As for the inks, YES, it is very similar to how it looked when Williamson inked Swan (though in fact I have never seen that combo myself), but apparently, THAT'S what it looks like when Curt Swan INKS HIMSELF, which I'm not sure he was ever able to do while working for DC Comics.
In the months I spent tediously researching and downloading various comics from BOY'S LIFE (from their site, not an easy thing to do if you saw how badly it was designed), I don't remember ever seeing anything from Al Williamson. That's in 62 years worth of comics I poured thru. That's not to say that he didn't... because Al Stenzel, originally the editor of the comics section, when he opened up his own company and REPLACED his former employers, Johnstone & Cushing, on the magazine-- effectively DRIVING THEM OUT OF BUSINESS (nice guy), he REMOVED almost all the artists credits from the comics... and they didn't return until he PASSED AWAY in 1979. (Nice guy.)
The artists I have seen (some credited, some not) include Creig Flessel, Irving Novick, Lou Fine, Curt Swan, Frank Bolle (he did the BIBLE feature for just over 20 straight years), Don Punchatz, Anthony Castrillo, Graeme Hewitson, Tin Salamunic (the latest I saw posted), while on SPACE CONQUERORS there was Al Stenzel, George Evans, Lou Fine, Alden McWilliams, and Gray Morrow (Lou Fine came back near the end, while Morrow alternated on the odd installment here and there). There was a stretch from 1974-1979 where at least 4 different artists worked on the BIBLE feature, none of whom I have been able to identify at all yet. (Thank YOU, Al Stenzel...) Further, among the various comics-style advertisements, one can also see work from Neal Adams... who, compared to just about every one else at Johnstone & Cushing, seems like a stiff, lifeless rank amateur. (Irony?)
It's maddening that I can't remember the guy who pointed Swan out to me, especially as he was on my FB list for several years (until he got on my nerves with some of his snide comments).
I wish somebody could help me nail down those artists between 1974-79. Some of them look so familiar... but I just can't place them.
Yeah, I still don't see it. The layouts and figures seem more dynamic than anything Swan ever did for DC, IYAM. I'm happy being corrected, but I've just never seen any proof anywhere that Swan worked on strips for Boys' Life. |
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 28, 2019 13:58:01 GMT -5
I can't help that you don't think it LOOKS like Swan, but it sure as hell does to me. Actually, the Moses pages bear a strong similarity to Al(den) McWilliams, and the way he executed his work in 1970s Gold Key titles (see: his Star Trek run), more than anything I've ever seen of Swan when he tried to break out of his standard style mode. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Nov 28, 2019 14:04:54 GMT -5
I can't help that you don't think it LOOKS like Swan, but it sure as hell does to me. Actually, the Moses pages bear a strong similarity to Al(den) McWilliams, and the way he executed his work in 1970s Gold Key titles (see: his Star Trek run), more than anything I've ever seen of Swan when he tried to break out of his standard style mode. Yes, that's whom I meant, McWilliams! Thank you. But not Swan, at least I don't think so. |
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Post by jason on Jan 13, 2020 17:08:51 GMT -5
Not sure if it counts as a "depiction of faith", but, as a Christian, I always liked the Watcher's "There is only one who is all powerful, and his only weapon is love!" speech.
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