|
Post by rberman on May 27, 2020 14:03:39 GMT -5
I think they could have done a script revision to cover it by introducing Luke at the station, picking up supplies, reuniting with Biggs and then transition to him arriving back home in time for the jawas to turn up.; Then again, there's a lot of stuff Lucas could have done with the script, though, if you read the earlier drafts, the final shooting script had been through so many permutations and Lucas was under pressure to get it going that I can understand. Yes, there's always that. Not enough time to write the perfect script, nor to get all the shot coverage you intended, nor to edit together the scenes you want, in the order that you want, with the takes that you want. Hence JMS' adage that every film is made three times: When you write it, when you shoot it, and when you edit it.
|
|
|
Post by Calidore on May 27, 2020 14:11:02 GMT -5
There are no versions; there is The Empire Strikes Back, as directed by Irvin Kirschner. Anything else is a hack job done as a money-making ploy. Thumbs up. I think I still have the videotapes that were the last release of the original versions of the trilogy, and I'll instantly buy a new Blu Ray release of same. Until then, at least we have the fan-made Despecialized Editions and Adywan's amazing Revisited versions.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on May 27, 2020 15:57:58 GMT -5
There are no versions; there is The Empire Strikes Back, as directed by Irvin Kirschner. Anything else is a hack job done as a money-making ploy. Thumbs up. I think I still have the videotapes that were the last release of the original versions of the trilogy, and I'll instantly buy a new Blu Ray release of same. Until then, at least we have the fan-made Despecialized Editions and Adywan's amazing Revisited versions. I have the special edition DVDs, which included the "original" cuts, from the laser discs. Those are the only versions I watch. The tinkering is mostly detrimental and clutters up the original scenes, especially the Mos Eisley stuff, when they first arrive. We didn't need 90% of that crap. I also hated the addition of Boba Fett, to Jabba's entourage, in the reconstituted hangar scene. Why does he need a connection to Jabba before Empire? he's a bounty hunter. he takes Vader's contract and then bargains to turn Solo over to Jabba for the reward. Why does he need to have met Solo before? The only part of the Empire tweaking I liked was in adding some touches to the scenery, at Cloud City. That is undone by messing up the pacing of the climax by inserting footage of Vader going to his shuttle, to explain how he is back on the Executor. All that was needed was a voiceover of Vader calling for his shuttle, after Luke jumps. We didn't need the slow walk and cuts back and forth. Really annoyed me in the theater. With Jedi, it's the celebration. I don't mind so much the idea of celebrations on other worlds; but, missed the energy of the Nub-nub song (hated the new musical number, at Jabba's palace, kept waiting for Earth, Wind and Fire to turn up). Still, it was always really simplistic that the Empire falls apart immediately, upon the Emperor's death. It would take time for things to break down and it would be a longer process. The Zahn novels handled it more realistically, where the key center of the Empire fell to the Rebels, but not immediately, thanks to much of the Imperial Fleet being at Endor; but, that wasn't all of their military might and there are still factions out there in charge of sectors of the former Empire.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jun 3, 2020 16:38:17 GMT -5
Marvel Super Special #22 Blade Runner"He say you Brade Runnel..." Sounds like Morgan Paul (Holden) is doing the narration. Creative team: Archie Goodwin-writer/adapter (from a script by Hampton Fancher and David Peoples), Al Williamson & Carlos Garzon-pencils, Williamson, Ralph Rees & Dan Green-inks, Ed King-letters, Marie Severin-colors, Jim Salicrup-"editor" Yeah, like Salicrup was "editing" Archie Goodwin. That's like the 3rd AD telling Hitchcock how to set up his shot. Call him traffic manager, at best. Cover by Jim Steranko. I love Garzon & Williamson; but, just imagine if Steranko had done the interior story.........take a look at his Outland adaptation to see what I mean, then consider that Peter Hyams wasn't a great visual stylist, compared to Ridley Scott. Steranko with those visuals to work from? Wheeeeeeeeewwww doggggggie! Synopsis: Archie sets us up with info that Scott didn't give us, and Al & Carlos seem to be influenced by Hugh Ferris and some European architecture (that looks like the BT tower in the lower left, between the building with the Chinese characters and the elevated roadway and the buildings on the other side of the river (or whatever) look familiar, too) Holden, a Blade Runner, interviews a man at the Tyrrell Corporation, asks him about his mother and gets shot for it. Don't you dare say nuttin' bad about my mama! Meanwhile, Rick Deckard orders 4 fish and gets two and lumps it. Then, Ed King forgets to put the little foreign language brackets around Gaff's dialogue, which confused the hell out of me when I originally read this, back in 1982... Gaff keeps yacking at Deckard, in clear English (according to the lettering) and Deckard doesn't understand. Hey Salicrup; wake up! Gaff's cityspeak is supposed to be a different language! Lofaszt! Anyway, he takes him to HQ, where Captain Bryant briefs Deckard and tells him he has been drafted for this assignment. Bryant gets the numbers right and tells Deckard what fun is in store. Archie and the boys also embellish Roy Batty's career, with some visual aid... Deckard goes to the Tyrrell Corporation HQ (the big pyramid) and talks to Rachel and Archie explains the owl better than Ridley did (and its significance, though in opposite effect to Scott's idea). he interviews Rachel and finds out she is a fake. Then, he and Gaff poke through Leon, the killer's, room. he finds some photos, while Leon spots them and mopes to Roy Batty. They go off an terrorize Asian men, while little genetic designers meet hookers and take them inside. Deckard goes home and finds Rachel, who moans about memories and then runs off and Deckard tells us what an ESPER is, since it is never named in the film. Deckard spots an image, IDs some scales and gets to see Joanna Cassidy naked, but we don't, since this is Code-approved. Actually, it isn't, but Marvel made sure when didn't see the goods, while still showing the violence. Leon nearly rips Deckard's head off, Rachel kills him and they go home and nookie is implied. JF Sebastian is introduced to Roy Batty and the horny dude helps Batty meet Tyrrell. It doesn't go well. Deckard tracks down Pris and kills her, giving us the violence again, but heaven help us if we see a nipple. Batty turns up, more violence depicted, then batty saves Deckard's life and dies, though no "tears in the rain." Deckard goes home and finds Rachel and they escape to the mountains, because the world isn't an ecological disaster; it's just LA. Bios follow, though only of Harrison Ford and Sean Young (and she didn't have much in the way of credits, beyond Stripes). Poor Edward James Olmos just gets lumped in with the rest. An ad for Epic illustrated follows and the rear cover has Steranko's image, without text clutter. Thoughts: Obviously, Archie worked from the script and didn't know about some of the improvisations, like the "tears in the rain" line. The ESPER is identified and the number is correct because it was based on what we see in the film, with one replicant killed infiltrating Tyrrell. There was suppose to be 6, with one killed, then they eliminated the fifth survivor, because of time and budget; but, only after the briefing scene, and dialogue was relooped, by Emmett Walsh mouths "six." The owl was supposed to be real to signify the wealth of Tyrrell; but, Ridley did his little light thing and said it was artificial. The search of Leon's place is closer to the cut footage, which would have been in the script. No mention of the scene where Deckard talks to Holden, in a medical chamber. Archie does a masterful job of paring things down to the essential scenes and story points, while Williamson & Garzon mostly capture the visuals. This really cried out for higher quality paper; but, not on Shooter's watch. All-in-all, this is one of my favorite Marvel adaptations of a movie. Archie really understands how to do it and gives you the movie experience, but emphasizes what comics do best. Williamson & Garzon are good with the likenesses and in capturing the detail of the set design and props. My only real quibble has been made, that violence was okay but brief, casual nudity was not. This was not a kids film, nor was this submitted for Code approval. People tend to forget that Blade Runner did modest box office. A lot of critics poo-poohed story and acting, though praised the visuals. Audiences were often left confused. Most missed the replicant gimmick with the light reflected in their eyes. The film found an audience on home video and cable, where repeated viewing revealed details that were missed the first time and led to questions and theories. The film had gone through a major evolution, from conception to writing, to filming, to various edits. Two different test screenings featured two different cuts. The final US cut was not the one seen in Europe. The home video version was the European cut. When the work print was discovered, it was cleaned up and released as the Director's Cut. Then, Ridley Scott got to come back and tweak some things for the Ultimate Edition, with no narration, day/night issues fixed, no happy ending and the audience hammered over the head that Deckard is a replicant. Yeah, well, @#$% you, Ridley! The story has no meaning if Deckard is a replicant, following his programming. The whole point of both the original novel and the screenplay is that the human Deckard has lost all touch with his humanity and goes through life like a robot, doing his function. The artificial people come back to their birthplace to find answers about their lives and display human characteristics, but a desire to break their programming and be free. The experience of hunting the replicants and meeting Rachel and Roy Batty alters Deckard and brings him back to life, restoring his human emotions and feelings. he learns empathy, the very thing the Voight-Kampf test was supposed to be measuring. That was the point that Philip K Dick was making; but, in true arrogant Hollywood fashion, Ridley Scott knows better. Well, listen to Scott's commentaries on his movies; the man is robotic and rarely displays much emotion, though a lot of ego. He has crafted some tremendous movies (and quite a bit of crap, too); but, he doesn't come across as a very warm person. Rutger Hauer certainly did (if a bit bat@#$%; but working with Paul Verhoeven as much as he did will do that to you). To me, this comic better captures Dick's theme than Scott did; probably because Archie read it.
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Jun 3, 2020 17:05:46 GMT -5
Agree about the Deckard as replicant thing: - dumb idea, completely pointless, unnecessary plot twist that seems to have only come about as an afterthought. And perhaps that's the problem: like george Lucas, Scott gets into trouble when he tried to over-think his work, when he over-rules his creative instincts with self-conscious analysis and borrowed ideas (e.g. fan specualtion, Joseph Campbell, etc).
I'd like to see how that Williamson Blade Runner artwork would look with more subdued colouring. The bright colours really detract from the ambience, for me.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Jun 3, 2020 17:08:10 GMT -5
Blade Runner is a favorite film of mine. The Replicants are portrayed as legitimately sentient AIs. For instance, I doubt Roy was just programmed to cherish Pris. So even in the "Deckard is probably a replicant" versions, he's a character who can learn and grow. With the added poignancy that his pawn status is more apparent, and his lifespan probably even more limited.
You're right that making the owl artificial was a goof, since that undermines Zora's comment that she could only afford an artificial snake, not a real one.
I have never understood why the vendor refused to sell Deckard four fish. Are we supposed to understand rationing that Deckard was hoping to circumvent?
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 3, 2020 17:09:26 GMT -5
Deckard isn't a replicant. Scott can try to retcon the movie all he wants, but it was clear in the film and the book that Deckard wasn't a replicant and it honestly makes no sense whatsoever for him to be one.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jun 3, 2020 17:47:39 GMT -5
Blade Runner is a favorite film of mine. The Replicants are portrayed as legitimately sentient AIs. For instance, I doubt Roy was just programmed to cherish Pris. So even in the "Deckard is probably a replicant" versions, he's a character who can learn and grow. With the added poignancy that his pawn status is more apparent, and his lifespan probably even more limited. You're right that making the owl artificial was a goof, since that undermines Zora's comment that she could only afford an artificial snake, not a real one. I have never understood why the vendor refused to sell Deckard four fish. Are we supposed to understand rationing that Deckard was hoping to circumvent? As depicted in the comic, it looks like the scene just shows how powerless Deckard is, but his drafting by Bryant covers that. In the film, they argue and the vendor says two is enough for anyone, because he probably makes more money with just two fish heads and noodles, rather than 4. Mmmmmm....Fish heads.....fish heads......roly-poly fish heads.....fish heads....fish heads.....eat them up.....yum!
|
|
Roquefort Raider
CCF Mod Squad
Modus omnibus in rebus
Posts: 17,413
Member is Online
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 3, 2020 17:48:37 GMT -5
Then, Ridley Scott got to come back and tweak some things for the Ultimate Edition, with no narration, day/night issues fixed, no happy ending and the audience hammered over the head that Deckard is a replicant. Yeah, well, @#$% you, Ridley! The story has no meaning if Deckard is a replicant, following his programming. The whole point of both the original novel and the screenplay is that the human Deckard has lost all touch with his humanity and goes through life like a robot, doing his function. THANK YOU!
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jun 7, 2020 15:19:15 GMT -5
I'm gonna wrap up the Marvel Graphic Novel line with just quick thoughts. The mediocrity or just plain average story nature of so many is just sapping my will to live. There is a reason why I didn't buy many of them, back in the day, and I have been reminded of why. The Super Specials are more fun. Mravel Graphic Novel #61, Black Widow: Coldest WarThe cover is one of the reasons I never bought it. That is downright ugly! Conway writes, George Freeman (Captain Canuck) draws, and a bunch of people ink. This was after Frank Miller gave her the overly butch haircut (and I like short hair on women; but, not the way Miller and subsequent artists made it look). Her husband, the Red Guardian is allegedly alive and she is being coerced into helping steal a trade document, for the USSR. The story isn't particulary great, but it isn't horrible; just kind of "average." Greeman's art reminds me, a bit, of Peter Chung of Aeon Flux, but less stylish, if that makes sense. $62 Kazar: Guns of the Savage LandChuck Dixon & Tim Truman...good pulpy fun! Gary Kwapisz handles layouts and Ricardo Villagran paints. Basically, Dixon & truman write a Tarzan story, where he has to go back to the jungle, to find the source of a passage from the Savage Land to Arizona, where a Native speaking an ancient tongue walked out of the desert, dying of radiation poisoning. Wyatt Wingfoot connects it to Hopi creation stories and gets Kazar and Shanna to go with him to find this passage. Meanwhile, oil companies are exploiting the untapped resources of the Savage Land and clearing off nuisances... This is a cut above the average Marvel GN and something different. Man, where else can you get dinosaurs as machine gun platforms, to fight off industrial destruction of Nature? #63, Spider-Man: Spirits of the EarthThis is a rare superhero turn from Charles Vess. Spidey and MJ inherit a Scottish castle and go on a second honeymopon to see it. Man is this beautiful..... In a pub, they hear tales of "wee ghosties" who took away the laird's young son. Spidey investigates and, eventually, learns that the another Munro is a member of the Hellfire Club and is keeping people away from an underground operation to exploit some crystal, with immense power. Beautiful windswept hills mix with dark secrets. This is good stuff and Vess would have been an interesting Spidey writer/artist, had he a mind to it. You can almost hear the Kate Bush music as you read it. #64 Punisher: kingdom GoneChuck Dixon and Jorge Zaffino, of Winter World, at Eclipse. Good team; but, it is still The Punisher killing people and I loathe the Punisher. Visually, he looks like an SS wet dream and character-wise he was never more than a Mack Bolan imitation and I found Bolan to be rather shallow, after a few books. I'll take the Spider for gun-toting maniacs any day. #65 Wolverine: BloodlustKind of a redundant title, if you ask me. Alan Davis and Paul Neary. Still Wolverine, though, hacking beasties in the North. Has a message that is buried under carnage. #66 Excalibur: Weird War IIIMichael Higgins, Tom Morgan & Justin Thyme (really?). Never got into Excalibur and this doesn't even have Alan Davis. #67 Wolverine: Bloody ChoicesSense a pattern here? Slap Wolverine, Punisher or Ghost Rider on everything. How we never got Wolverine, Punisher and Ghost Rider Massacre the Star Comics Line is beyond me. DeFalco and Buscema. Never liked Buscema's rendition of Wolverine; kind of felt like he didn't care for the character (or superheroes, period). Adding Nick Fury doesn't help. Tom Defalco is no Archie Goodwin. #68 Avengers: Death Trap: The VaultDanny Fingeroth and Ron Lim. Textbook "average" Marvel. Venom....prison break.....Avengers in ugly versions of their costumes. Pure 90s. This is why some of us shudder at the mention of the 90s, though this is better than what would come, believe me. #69 Conan: The RogueThomas & Buscema, on Conan. Without Code approval. Cue up Basil Poledouris. Rogue seems a tame epithet for Conan, though. What's next, Conan the Scamp? #70 Punisher: Blood on the MoorsNot his usual claymore. John Wagner, Alan Grant and Cam Kennedy. Broader sense of humor than your average Punisher tale; still hate the Punisher. #71 Silver Surfer: HomecomingStarlin and Bill Reinhold. Surfer goes back to high school for the big game and dance, meets his old girlfriend, lost all of his hair, has a paunch..... Well, he does see Shalla Bal and Moondragon is along, which doesn't make me want to read it any more than Silver Surfer did. I recall in the first edition of Maurice Horn's World Encyclopedia of Comics the Surfer was described as a Cosmic Crybaby. That pretty much summed up the character, for me (except in Kirby's hands, at the beginning). Not my cup of tea. Wasn't overly wowed by Starlin, in this period. Your mileage may vary. #72 Spider-Man: Fear ItselfOoh, ghost ninja! Two things that don't exist in the real world! Gerry Conway, Stan Lee, Ross Andru, Mike Esposito. Don't think it will live up tot he Death of Gwen Stacy or the drug issue. Nazis, Silver Sable, ninjas...meh #73 Conan: The Ravagers Out of TimeSounds like a concept album. Thomas, Michael Docherty, Alfredo Alcala. Giant slugs. Kull. #74 Punisher & Black Widow: Spinning Doomsday's WebDan Chichester and Larry Stroman. Punisher killing people, Black Widow spying. Nick Fury in the background. #75 Daredevil/Black Widow: AbattoirStarlin and Joe Chiodo. Lots of slaughter, Black Widow slashed across her abdomen while chained, hanging from a wall. Poor man's Elektra Assassin (and I don't particularly care for that story. Bit to dark and icky for my tastes). More 90s fare. So, 2 out of 15 I whole-heartedly recommend, a few that are fine, if you like that kind of things, and some wastes of perfectly good toilet paper. Sums up early 90s Marvel, for me. Your kilometers could possibly represent an alternate viewpoint. Next, back to the Super Specials, where a hit musical gets turned into a crap film! Leaping Lizards!
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jun 7, 2020 15:30:45 GMT -5
ps Re: ninjas. Ninjas existed, but not the way they are depicted in comics and film. They were spies, pure and simple, dressed like ordinary peasants and merchants and what not. They did not run around in black, killing people, were not super commandos, were not killing machines. Most of this idea comes from kabuki theater, where anyone or thing that is meant to be invisible is dressed in black. So, stories of a lord being assassinated, in the dark, by someone unknown and unseeen? Actor dressed in black. Funny enough, black isn't the best color for skulking around in the dark. Grey and dark green are actually better.
Still, who wants to watch kung fu movies with people standing around watching troop movements?
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Jun 7, 2020 18:53:51 GMT -5
Vess did several Spider-Man covers in the 80s, around the Hobgoblin period, and a story involving the Wendigo (the mythical Wendigo, not the Marvel version.)
|
|
|
Post by zaku on Jun 8, 2020 7:42:26 GMT -5
I'm #75 Daredevil/Black Widow: AbattoirStarlin and Joe Chiodo. Lots of slaughter, Black Widow slashed across her abdomen while chained, hanging from a wall. Poor man's Elektra Assassin (and I don't particularly care for that story. Bit to dark and icky for my tastes). More 90s fare. Wasn't it (in)famous for the first kiss between a female superhero and an another woman..?
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jun 8, 2020 10:27:45 GMT -5
I'm #75 Daredevil/Black Widow: AbattoirStarlin and Joe Chiodo. Lots of slaughter, Black Widow slashed across her abdomen while chained, hanging from a wall. Poor man's Elektra Assassin (and I don't particularly care for that story. Bit to dark and icky for my tastes). More 90s fare. Wasn't it (in)famous for the first kiss between a female superhero and an another woman..? I kind of skimmed; but, she was being "dominated" by a woman in leather (who rips a knife across her). Might have been a kiss in there. Plenty of touching. At least stuff like Eros and Verotik were honest about that kind of stuff.
|
|
|
Post by zaku on Jun 8, 2020 12:37:07 GMT -5
Wasn't it (in)famous for the first kiss between a female superhero and an another woman..? I kind of skimmed; but, she was being "dominated" by a woman in leather (who rips a knife across her). Might have been a kiss in there. Plenty of touching. At least stuff like Eros and Verotik were honest about that kind of stuff. Well, yes, it was the one
|
|